all Windows 8 OEM need UEFI ?

Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by B8, Oct 14, 2011.

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  1. Jachra

    Jachra MDL Member

    Apr 5, 2010
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    #41 Jachra, Oct 18, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    @ Stannieman

    4 and 5 are easily enough to handle for the user. Anyone can supply a RSS-feed which warns which update is safe or unsafe. Any user can subscribe to such RSS-feed and can be offered with the patch.

    @Daz

    Indeed, it requires a lot of work when patches are released on patch tuesday.
     
  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Nah...unlimited rearm then...

    Btw: A KMS protocol is also implemented at secure boot (UEFI chapter 27.9). I wonder if the KMS licensing of w8 will be managed there as well...

    From UEFI spec.:

    Summary
    The Key Management Service (KMS) protocol provides services to generate, store, retrieve, and manage cryptographic keys. The intention is to specify a simple generic protocol that could be used for many implementations.
    The management keys have a simple construct – they consist of key identifier and key data, both of variable size.
    A driver implementing the protocol may need to provide basic key service that consists of a key store and cryptographic key generation capability. It may connect to an external key server over the network, or to a Hardware Security Module (HSM) attached to the system it runs on, or anything else that is capable of providing the key management service.
    Authentication and access control is not addressed by this protocol. It is assumed it is addressed at the system level and done by the driver implementing the protocol, if applicable to the implementation.
     
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  3. Tito

    Tito Super Mod / Adviser
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    Worst case... MS will block the ability to delete WPA registry from WinRE ~ oh!! I am feared to predict the future ;)
     
  4. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    It's not pointless, because this thread never had asserted the claim to divine what will happen, but what might.
    It's fun to talk about and there are some interesting facts and graphs.

    Fact is UEFI will open doors for control, it also will open doors for new malware. The flash chips have more capacity, EFI is like a pre-OS and it works closer to the OS and will be accessible by it.
    It's not like a BIOS that just is made to initialize hardware. Also there will be areas that can be written by the OS any time.
    The imagination from to flash a BIOS and after P.O.S.T all is over will disappear.
     
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  5. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    That's what I figure, should be able to boot from W8. They let you boot into "Older OS", which seems to reboot and boot that. An OS like XP won't support this secure boot so one should be able to rig linux to boot from it. This way, W8 only boots form its bootloader and acts as the gatekeeper to other boot methods.
     
  6. alextheg

    alextheg MDL Expert

    Jan 7, 2009
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    It will be interesting to see what happens in Europe . Brussels has an interesting view on monopolistic ways and fair trade rights for consumers. I find it hard to believe MS will be allowed to sell locked OEM systems in Europe at least.
     
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  7. TripFx

    TripFx MDL Novice

    Sep 18, 2011
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    I know this may be my first post but after reading everything I'm confused because making UEFI a requirement for windows 8 seems a little retarded. Correct me if I'm wrong but say I have a PC with XP or even 7 how in the hell would we be able to activate windows 8 legit or even non-legit from an upgrade from XP or 7. So whats the point of having an upgrade path if you will be required to update your hardware as well just to activate it? I have an LGA775 DDR2 motherboard that means not only would I have to spend money for a new board but ram and cpu as well and on top of that spend even more money for the software. Now you guys was talking about UEFI working with Mac, Linux and Windows, but what about ReactOS which is a windows alternative or would it be classified under the Windows Category?
     
  8. speedycars

    speedycars MDL Novice

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    UEFI is a requirement only for OEM. Not for upgrade and retail versions.
     
  9. TripFx

    TripFx MDL Novice

    Sep 18, 2011
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    Thanks that makes more since but I still would like ansere or something as far as UEFI and ReactOS. Suppose I Dual Boot with Win8 OEM and ReactOS. Does that mean Windows 8 will fail to work being technically will be classified as an Unknown Loader?
     
  10. .NetRolller 3D

    .NetRolller 3D MDL Novice

    Jul 16, 2009
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    I still do not see how Windows is protected against a DUET-based loader. AFAIK an OS loaded using DUET has no way of accessing the BIOS behind DUET - to the OS, DUET is a regular UEFI firmware. One can even modify DUET to only allow running signed boot loaders, like a real UEFI with secure boot.
     
  11. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #55 Daz, Oct 19, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2011
    * Removed *
     
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  12. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    #56 CODYQX4, Oct 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2011
    So UEFI checks Windows and Windows checks UEFI then. Well that makes sense from security instead of blindly trusting the boot loader.

    Anyway, because I don't know much about UEFI but we know Windows can update it so it isn't read only. Couldn't someone burn their own UEFI into the motherboard? I know MS mostly cares about mass sale of pirated Windows being sold as PC, and someone with a shop in China could probably do this kind of thing whereas 99.999999% of people would be unable to do this themselves. Seems like it could go bad if MS really relies on this.

    Though, we know OEM must have UEFI and not BIOS so we know it won't be BIOS based but aren't we all speculating from here? We haven't the slightest idea how OA 3 will work, whereas MS talked about the secure boot thing. I wonder if there is a module in UEFI that talks, then emulating just that module would probably be simpler than modding UEFI/emulating the whole thing.

    Anyway, I think solutions are going to end up more in Windows. I know Yen said something about KMS but even if they baked it into UEFI, some server has to send the response so I don't see how they could kill off KMS that way (this sounds more like have the KMS listener/handler on client baked into UEFI to listen instead of coding it into SPP which people like to screw with with tools like RemoveWAT, and I imagine it would allow Office to use as well). MS could kill the WPA reset by handling things the way they do Office but that still leaves an AR like restore of WPA key instead of delete.

    But things do look a bit messy for OEM now, even if things are OK you'll have to build from scratch anyway as I doubt the old SLIC BIOS technique will carry over to UEFI, and that takes time to do. KMS seems OK but that leaves everyone on Enterprise, which is effectively Ultimate.

    What I hope is they let W8 Bootloader load other OS (I think this is how they'll handle the eventual s**tstorm that will come of the Linux thing), and someone could go from there. I'd imagine someone could rig a old bootloader to do something and force load W8 after. One could probably patch the OS to not need secure boot and use that to get by, but we really have no details that say how all this proposed stuff is going to talk together.
     
  13. Jachra

    Jachra MDL Member

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  14. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #58 Daz, Oct 20, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2011
    * Removed *
     
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  15. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    That leaked software stuff is easy enough, trust me ;)
     
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