Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Another one, my own home and family.
     
  2. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
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    Gorski ........ if you stop posting insults , personal attacks , smugness , overinflated ego and copy and paste crap .......... theres nothing left in your posts .
     
  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    https://lasillavacia.com/detector-n...via-disminuyo-casos-covid-tras-aprobacion-del

    Detector: No hay evidencia que pruebe que Bolivia disminuyó casos de covid tras aprobación del dióxido de cloro

    [ For a few days a note from the adiarioCR portal has been circulating on Facebook entitled: 'Bolivia decreases the number of Covid-19 cases after approval of chlorine dioxide.']
    Desde hace unos días está circulando en Facebook una nota del portal adiarioCR titulada: “Bolivia disminuye la cantidad de casos de Covid-19 tras aprobación del dióxido de cloro”.

    [ The note has been classified as false by 26 Facebook users and has had 7,023 interactions, according to the Crowdtangle tool that measures the virality of content published by social networks.]
    La nota ha sido calificada como falsa por 26 usuarios de Facebook y ha tenido 7.023 interacciones, según la herramienta Crowdtangle que mide la viralidad de los contenidos publicados por redes sociales.

    [ We applied the Lie Detector to the note and found it to be misleading because there is no evidence that covid cases were decreased by the approval of chlorine dioxide.]
    Le aplicamos el Detector de Mentiras a la nota y encontramos que es engañosa porque no hay ninguna evidencia de que los casos de covid disminuyeron por la aprobación del dióxido de cloro.

    [ The article from adiarioCR says: “as of September the South American country began to drop the number of positives and has been registering fewer than 197 positive daily cases for more than a week, with November 2 being the day with the highest drop, accounting for 34 cases. ']
    La nota de adiarioCR dice: “a partir de septiembre el país suramericano comenzó a bajar el número de positivos y lleva más de una semana registrando menos de 197 casos diarios positivos, siendo el 2 de noviembre el día con mayor baja al contabilizar 34 casos.”

    [ According to the publication, “the decrease in positives occurred just after the Bolivian Chamber of Deputies approved -on August 2- a bill that regulates the elaboration, commercialization, supply and consent of chlorine dioxide (CDS) from preventively and as a treatment for coronavirus patients. ']
    Según la publicación, “la disminución de positivos se dio justamente después de que la Cámara de Diputados de Bolivia aprobara -el 2 de agosto- un proyecto de ley que regula la elaboración, comercialización, suministro y consentido del dióxido de cloro (CDS) de manera preventiva y como tratamiento para pacientes de coronavirus.”

    [ Although the Bolivian parliament did approve the use of chlorine dioxide, a causal relationship cannot be established between the approval and the decrease in cases.]
    Aunque el parlamento boliviano sí aprobó el uso de dióxido de cloro, no se puede establecer una relación de causalidad entre la aprobación y la disminución de casos.

    [ As we have counted in several detectors, chlorine dioxide or CDS is one of the substances that many defenders have because it supposedly prevents and cures covid.]
    Como hemos contado en varios detectores, el dióxido de cloro o CDS es una de las sustancias que tiene que muchos defensores porque supuestamente previene y cura el covid.

    [ The main argument in favor of the use of CDS is that it releases oxygen into the body of the person who consumes it and since COVID generates a feeling of suffocation, it becomes a striking tool as a supposed cure or treatment.]
    El principal argumento a favor del uso del CDS es que libera oxígeno dentro del cuerpo de la persona que lo consume y como el covid genera sensación de ahogo, se vuelve una herramienta llamativa como supuesta cura o tratamiento.

    [ The main promoter of the CDS is the German Andreas Kalcker, who calls himself a biophysicist although his degrees are from a university without any academic endorsement, as reported by the portal Salud con Lupa.]
    El principal promotor del CDS es el alemán Andreas Kalcker, quien se autonombra biofísico aunque sus títulos son de una universidad sin ningún aval académico, como reportó el portal Salud con Lupa.

    [ Kalcker states that the therapeutic action of chlorine dioxide occurs when a person consumes it and then the molecule (ClO2) separates and releases oxygen.]
    Kalcker afirma que la acción terapéutica del dióxido de cloro ocurre cuando una persona lo consume y entonces la molécula (ClO2) se separa y libera oxígeno.
    [ According to the German, this apparent oxygenation allows to cure any disease, from flu, covid and even cancer.]
    Según el alemán, esta aparente oxigenación permite curar cualquier enfermedad, desde gripa, covid y hasta cáncer.

    [ However, there is no scientific evidence for these effects.]
    Sin embargo, no hay ninguna evidencia científica de estos efectos.

    [ In fact, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not support its safety and efficacy, and the WHO says there is no cure or treatment for the virus yet.]
    De hecho, la Administración de Alimentos y Medicamentos de Estados Unidos (FDA, en inglés) no apoya su seguridad y eficacia, y la OMS dice que aún no hay una cura o tratamiento para el virus.

    [ The US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) also warned about the health dangers of ingesting chlorine dioxide.]
    La Agencia para Sustancias Tóxicas y el Registro de Enfermedades (ATSDR, por sus siglas en inglés) de Estados Unidos también advirtió sobre los peligros para la salud de la ingesta del dióxido de cloro.


    Contexto
    Silla Nacional

    [​IMG]
    No, Bolivia no ha autorizado el uso médico del dióxido de cloro
    Silla Nacional

    [​IMG]
    Detector: Otra vez, el médico Raul Salazar aconseja medicamentos que no curan el Covid
    Silla Nacional

    [​IMG]
    Detector: Médico del Hospital San Carlos sí usó dióxido de cloro en pacientes con Covid-19


    [ And the Spanish Agency for Medicines and Health Products advises against its use, since 'when consumed following the instructions given, it produces adverse effects that can be serious.']
    Y la Agencia Española de Medicamentos y Productos Sanitarios desaconseja su uso, puesto que “cuando se consume siguiendo las instrucciones dadas, produce efectos adversos que pueden ser graves”.

    [ With all that, the Bolivian parliament authorized its use?]
    ¿Con todo eso, el parlamento boliviano autorizó su uso?
    [ Yes]


    [ On August 5, the Plurinational Legislative Assembly passed a law that authorizes the production, marketing, supply and use of chlorine dioxide as a solution against covid.]
    El 5 de agosto pasado, la Asamblea Legislativa Plurinacional sancionó una ley que autoriza la elaboración, la comercialización, el suministro y el uso del dióxido de cloro como solución contra el covid.

    [ As Chequeado reported, the decision was made despite the fact that the chemical compound not only does not cure but its consumption is risky for health, as the Bolivian Ministry of Health itself warns.]
    Como reportó Chequeado, la decisión se tomó a pesar de que el compuesto químico no solamente no cura sino que su consumo es riesgoso para la salud, como advierte el propio Ministerio de Salud boliviano.

    [ But the Government has not yet enacted the law and sent the text to the Plurinational Constitutional Court (TCP), which has not yet been issued on such consultation.]
    Pero el Gobierno aún no ha sancionado la ley y remitió el texto al Tribunal Constitucional Plurinacional (TCP), que aún no se expidió sobre tal consulta.

    [ On October 16, the Bolivian Ministry of Health published a statement that indicated 'maintains its position that, since chlorine dioxide does not have any scientific evidence that demonstrates its therapeutic or preventive nature and since it is not registered as a pharmaceutical product, it will maintain its prohibition at the national level and will hold legally responsible any authority or people who, irresponsibly, have caused damage to health by encouraging the consumption of that product. ']
    El 16 de octubre, el Ministerio de Salud de Bolivia publicó un comunicado que indicó "mantiene su postura de que, al no tener el dióxido de cloro ninguna evidencia científica que demuestre su carácter terapéutico o preventivo y al no ser registrado como producto farmacéutico, mantendrá su prohibición a nivel nacional y responsabilizará legalmente a cualquier autoridad o personas que, de manera irresponsable, hayan ocasionado daños a la salud por alentar el consumo de ese producto".

    [ Despite the government's non-authorization, CDS has already been used before]
    A pesar de la no autorización del Gobierno, desde antes ya se utilizada el CDS


    [ As we have here, the government of the department of Chuquisaca (southeast of Bolivia) announced on June 30 that patients with covid were consuming chlorine dioxide.]
    Como contamos aquí, la gobernación del departamento de Chuquisaca (sureste de Bolivia) anunció el 30 de junio que pacientes con covid estaban consumiendo dióxido de cloro.

    [ But there is no causal relationship between the consumption of chlorine dioxide and the decrease in cases.]
    Pero no hay una relación de causalidad entre el consumo del dióxido de cloro y la disminución de casos.


    [ The adiarioCR note says that since September the cases in Bolivia have started to drop and it is supposedly due to the approval of the use of the CDS.]
    La nota de adiarioCR dice que desde septiembre empezaron a bajar los casos en Bolivia y supuestamente es por la aprobación del uso del CDS.

    [ However, the article does not present any evidence or study that certifies that the population took the chlorine dioxide and that therefore the virus stopped spreading.]
    Sin embargo, el artículo no presenta ninguna prueba o estudio que certifique que la población tomó el dióxido de cloro y que por eso el virus dejó de expandirse.

    [ In fact, in dozens of other countries, cases have fallen in a similar way to Bolivia without the use of the CDS being allowed.]
    De hecho, en decenas de otros países han caído los casos de forma similar a Bolivia sin que se haya permitido el uso del CDS.

    [ Therefore, we qualify the note as misleading.]
    Por lo anterior, calificamos la nota como engañosa.
     
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  4. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    As I stated before think, you and whoever ports a shiny badge of COVIDIOT, whatever you want.

    My posts hopefully change some suffering souls out there... Peace.

    We are adults and have freewill and common sense.
     
  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    OK, so:

    1) I posted facts. You can not argue with them, as we have seen...

    2) RT is not addressing the facts of numbers I mentioned (0 C-19 related deaths) but that there are covidiots (returning the "favour" with interest, thanx!), like you, who do not "believe" in facts and good policies/measures and hence "protest".

    3) Oh, dear... If only you could think at least a little bit and stay on the topic discussed...

    Your posts are teeming not only with insults but with damn eugenics "great idea" - so this coming from you is.... surprising, I must say.... very... "brave"... kettle, teapot and all that.... Is that enough ..... for you? :rolleyes: :p
     
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  6. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Yes I am all you've said. Yeah yeah.

    Also I want to Eugene you as well :p
     
  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    At least we agree on something.

    But seriously, get your head outta yer arse, man - and start dealing with facts! But not superficially, wishing the "not so favourable facts" (for your current position) would just somehow go away, magically disappear...

    I mean no harm to you and your family, you know that! Quite the opposite! To anyone and any family!

    The opposite is not the case, sadly - not with those "ideas" and conduct that follows...
     
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  8. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  9. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

    Nov 30, 2014
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    i find it so funny how all of the sudden new accounts pop up and immediately they jump into this thread to spread flat out lies:rolleyes:
     
  10. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
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    >Interior Ministry hired scientists to justify corona measures

    What was the point in posting that ? ........ Are you tripping over the german language ? ...... The word ' represive ' ? ......... Theres nothing in that part article thats questionable .

    In an emergency the government asks scientists to look at tjhe situation and offer a scientific assesment ........ wich always contains a worst case scenario ........ and how to deal with it . Part of that worse case scenario is about how to enforce measures when some people are a danger to scociety .

    VT psychomorons dont understand that and try to use it in claims about reptilians / qanon / iluminati / corona conspiracys .
     
  11. antiCMOS

    antiCMOS MDL Junior Member

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    I m too old to stress over whether something will come along and snuff me or anyone else out. The way some folks talk sometimes it s like they forget that death smiles at us all:rip:
     
  12. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Nice post. I agree.
    For that reason, death smiles at us all, anytime anywhere, I thank God every moment I remember, and for that reason I have to accept any disease could kill me. For that reason I see all this plandemic measures useless because they really are, proven. And using masks undermine my daily living, etc.
     
  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    No one is too old to:

    1) act in self-preservation mode

    2) act to protect others from oneself!

    So, no, it's not a "nice" post by any semi-decent standards!!! That's just BS!!!
     
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  14. Palladin

    Palladin MDL Senior Member

    Feb 1, 2014
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    Pretty good discussion on the +/- of the new Covid-19 vaccine.
    Way over my head, maybe Yen can comment on whether the guy is right or wrong in his thinking.
    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241536

    And this kinda backs up his theory regarding animal transmission where he says:
    -----------------------------------------------------
    This is not conjecture folks -- it has happened in animal husbandry and has resulted in avian flu potentiation wildly beyond what used to be the case. Avian flu strains used to kill a fair number of birds who contracted it but now, as a result of vaccines that do not present sterilizing immunity it is now nearly universally fatal among poultry. If such is detected in a flock today the usual response is immediate culling of the entire population at that location because it is nearly-certain to be fatal to the infected birds anyway and if it gets out of that facility and into another one it will kill all the birds there too.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/vietnam-begins-cull-poultry-bird-flu-spreads-14-provinces
     
  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2015 Yen, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
    The matter 'herd immunity' has absolutely nothing to do with the latest posts.

    But since you started again....I quote myself and it's great that nothing is forgotten!
    I am glad that anything is still here so people can make their own opinion.

    You still don't get that the reasoning is based on that herd immunity is supposed to be 66% of all should be immune and only 20% of all SARSCoV-2 infected get COVID-19 at all.
    Without that fact COVID-19 would be a far worse pandemic!

    Being said that once more I leave this and focus on news.:)
     
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  16. antiCMOS

    antiCMOS MDL Junior Member

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    From what I ve seen You act a bot. You
    Hahaha. Thanks for the laugh. You, no doubt, find it appauling that you can t think for everyone. My joy is you realize the fact.
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Of course you do - you can't think for love or money, so no wonder... I mean, even if your very life depends on you thinking - you still can't do it, ergo...

    Yen, that's ducking and diving, forgetting what you were saying, trying to put a spin on things - it won't help! We all saw how you changed your stance when you found your new guru and then now you are starting to modify your stance ever so slightly, so spinning, ducking and diving now....

    As opposed to you, I am consistent and have a coherent public health policy in mind, from start to finish....
     
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  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2018 Yen, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
    His post is interesting. Would love to debate with him.
    Actually it's about:" Why is this mass vaccination approach for SARS-CoV2 useless, yes can even turn out as disadvantage or even a backfire".

    Some of his arguments do not apply to SARS-CoV-2, though. Or are assumptions (such as ADE = antibody dependent enhancement) which are not observed at SARS-CoV-2 so far.
    This (ADE) was an issue on the Philippines when they tried the vaccine against dengue.
    AFAIK it applies to HIV, too. But this is a retrovirus.

    And he compares to flu, which has some other attributes just like a far higher mutation rate and exchange of haemagglutinin / neuraminidase. That's why we note H1N1. When you are infected with H1N1 and with H7N9 then they can exchange and build new viruses. (H1N9 and H7N1).

    And he does not separate binding, neutralizing and sterilizing antibodies.

    He does not go into the details of current kind of vaccines which are available for SARS-CoV-2, but argues with non-sterilizing attributes.

    I share his concerns, therefore I posted frequently that it is unsure if a vaccination approach will stop the pandemic at all. I would argue a bit differently, though.

    All the more I completely agree saying this kind of vaccine is only suitable to prevent high risk people from getting severe illness and NOT suitable for a mass approach (yeah even contra productive)

    'My strongest arguments': Escape pressure, viral load dependency of respiratory system related viruses, vaccination availability overall in the world, immune system's retarded ability to produce 'updated' antigens. Real infection versus vaccination immunity...

    Yeah if we have bad luck the mass vaccination will turn out as a backfire..at least for certain groups of people / nations.....
    Either way the euphoria at this time comes from fools only...

    We need drugs like Ivermectin to have a strong addition or even a replacement.
     
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  19. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

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    In Sweden, it is forbidden to wear masks: explaining this by their ineffectiveness and the risk of a greater spread of coronavirus. Writes about this The Conversation.

    ps:
    That's right - you need to introduce fines of 5,000 euros and a prison term or correctional labor for 2 years for wearing masks. :) :)
     
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  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Sweden has the very worst score of all its neighbours - several times over all of them put together.

    The architect of their approach to C-19 has since publicly stated that they made many errors and that now, having learnt a lot, they would certainly do it differently but hey-ho, critical thinking is not for everyone, obviously...
     
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