Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    :party_time: @gorski might as well party! The experts have spoken, we got euthanized. I'll go buy my coffin and lay in it now!

    @Yen I agree about the booster shots, I think I posted a video a while back with a Dr pretty much saying the same thing.
     
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #3082 gorski, Aug 29, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2021
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    https://www.dw.com/en/us-vaccination-skeptics-voice-regret-after-falling-ill/av-58964466

    https://www.dw.com/en/covid-19-special-american-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated/av-58908288

    https://www.dw.com/en/kids-beat-covid-19-faster-because-of-their-noses/av-58899114

    https://www.dw.com/en/long-covid-patients-fight-to-be-believed/a-58839340

    Long COVID: Patients fight to be believed
    "Millions of COVID patients still experience debilitating symptoms months after their infection. Many of them have to fight the additional battle of convincing their doctors or loved ones to take them seriously.

    About 15% of COVID patients still have several symptoms after 12 weeks,according to a study conducted by researchers at Imperial College London in the UK. Women and older patients are more likely to be affected, but men and children also experience it.

    Scientists are still researching possible causes, which makes the condition more difficult to diagnose and treat. For many long-haulers, a trip to the doctor’s office becomes a battle to be believed."

    I can't find this one in English: @Yen?

    https://www.dw.com/sr/nevakcinisani...ntclyPZN1kFZrubXZiT1QqL13lkUOooumkKJ9t1Ns5Us0

    "Istraživače posebno raduje što je u poslednjih šest meseci jedna jedina osoba mlađa od šezdeset godina umrla od korone, a da je bila vakcinisana.

    „Brojke nedvosmisleno potvrđuju da vakcine dobro štite – posebno od teškog protoka bolesti“, rekao je Karsten Valc, generalni sekretar Nemačkog društva za imunologiju, za magazin Špigel. To važi i kada je u pitanju delta soj virusa, iako se njime i vakcinisani lakše mogu zaraziti.

    U poslednjih mesec dana 15 odsto simptomatskih zaraza otpada na cepljene, dok je 85 odsto zaraženih sa simptomima nevakcinisano. Kod onih koji završe na bolničkom lečenju nevakcinisani čine oko 92 odsto, a na stanicama intenzivne nege i respiratorima čak 99,2 odsto od februara do danas."
     
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  4. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Do they really believe I'm going to swallow this one given the overwhelming amount of scientific evidence?
    Those articles are for gullible people not knowing science, not having idea about scientific establishment, not having common sense and not knowing the true dark face of Pharmafia.

    Btw I believe most vaccinated people which do not show post-vaccination symptoms, they received a placebo shot solely.
     
  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    No, they are communicating this to the intelligent AND open-minded, you know, Humans, people who can actually learn...
     
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  6. Palladin

    Palladin MDL Senior Member

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  7. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #3087 R29k, Aug 29, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
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  8. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Oh I'm such a stupid as its finest.
    What I was thinking, a horse dewormer?
    What an asshole I am, if The Guardian says so then must be true!!!
    NO WAIT!!! Even a mindless poor soul of the worse kind I am, if the FDA tells so then must be the absolute truth.
    How I dare !! They are health authorities and want all the best for us...

    EVERYONE!!! LISTEN UP!! REPEAT WITH ME!!
    No Ivermectin for me, I'm not a horse but a human
    No Ivermectin for me, I'm not a horse but a human
    No Ivermectin for me, I'm not a horse but a human
    No Ivermectin for me, I'm not a horse but a human...

    However and in the meanwhile Walgreens selling a horse dewormer for human since forever? :rolleyes:
    https://www.walgreens.com/rx-druginfo/pharmacy/finddrug/druginfodrugdetails?drugId=16745
     
  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Don't be too soft on yourself, you can certainly push the pedal to the metal on this one...
     
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  10. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #3090 R29k, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
    Apparently,"dont use dewormer", has been lost on him. It's hilarious how people are ready to question the vaccine, but are also ready to swallow anything else available without thought! Like for example bleach
    You can see the adverse effects here
    And you can read here too.
     
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  11. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  12. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #3092 R29k, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
    Oh brother if you had actually read the article I posted then you would have seen this in it.

    People use dewormers on humans for example I know some vets give dewormer to their kids yearly . But it's the dosage, it's a very small amount. How much are you going to swallow, it works by body weight. If you take the dosage a horse would get then your liver will have an issue.
    Tylenol or advil it's probably fine to take one but not the whole bottle in 24 hours, you can get liver failure. Same principle I would suspect.
    Then there is the 3rd party drug interactions etc.
     
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  13. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Oh brother if you had actually read my comment...
    I'm mocking FDA's alarmist warning
    Childish. They are treating people like little kids. Scaring people saying Ivermectin is for horses cows not actual humans.

    Ridiculous.

    My comment has nothing to do with doses.
     
  14. ancestor(v)

    ancestor(v) Admin
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    Of course, Ivermectin can be safely applied in humans and that has been done so ever since it's discovery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin#Medical_uses
    It's the dose that makes it safe or unsafe. So the FDA is basically saying you should not use it against Covid because the large animal dosage is too high for humans. Of course it is. And yes, we're no horses or other animals, but still quite a few drugs for veterinary medicine are also used in humans, safe and effectively (ketamine, for example) - without anyone saying it's stupid.
     
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  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    I think the worry is that those who take it "think" this is OK as the only thing they should/could do, more than anything...

    Also, R2deetoo's point: "Then there is the 3rd party drug interactions etc."
     
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  16. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  17. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    #3097 Mr.X, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  18. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    https://t.me/akashacomunidad/500
     
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Superb! Lucky us you and yours are not in the driving seat...
     
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  20. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #3100 Yen, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
    I did more research and I came across that video.
    It's an interview of an israeli PhD. (Which name is Ariel Israel, kida funny)

    He's talking exclusively about the Pfizer vaccine and primarily the TH2 arm of the adaptive immune system which is also called humoral immunity. (b cells, plasma cells, antibodies).

    The other arm TH1 also called cellular response, is actually excluded since t cell immunity is far more harder to measure.
    At the end he is saying (they are administering booster shots already) that data have to show how effective the 3rd shot will be.

    Anyway some interesting points from the interview:
    Fully vaccinated people have a 10 times greater AB level / titer than people from natural infections (10000 AU/mL compared to 1000).
    The waning rate is 40% per month.

    At natural infection AB levels are firstly INcreasing after recovery and then they start to decline. The waning rate is 5% per month only, though.

    Current natural infections cause a better protection than the vaccine.

    Already recovered people who got vaccinated after have most AB levels after vaccination.

    So applying this to your question. (And we can only argue on the TH2 arm, AKA antibody levels)

    We'd have to consider the different waning rates and the far higher initial AB level at the vaccine. We'd also have to consider quality of AB versus quantity.
    When you go for a booster you restore the AB level you had right after you've been fully vaccinated. This level is 10 times higher than those at natural infection.

    On the other hand those ABs have a lower quality since delta has mutated. This means some of them created from epitopes which have mutated at the S protein have become useless. First point.

    Second point: Those epitopes which are new now don't have an AB which can attach. As an result there will be parts at the spike protein remaining uncovered.
    The question now is: Can a 10 times higher AB level compensate that?
    And if yes how long?

    He said that natural infection (with delta) does create a better protection than the vaccines.
    Compared to wuhan they said vaccines are almost as good as natural infection's protection.
    This means it cannot fully compensate the lack of quality.

    But anyway you should get a higher protection (again) concerning infection after taking the booster.
    Also for delta (10 times higher in quantity does have an effect on delta, too. But it won't reach the original protection they had at original wuhan virus...and probably does wane quickly by a rate of 40% per month soon to ready state levels one has had either.)

    If you get a higher efficacy at the still good efficacy concerning severe covid / death is unclear.

    TBH I have a sort of stomachache pushing the immune system again to 10 times higher levels compared to natural levels.
    If I would I only can agree using a modified vaccine which encodes for delta and that at a lower dosage as a booster.

    Here is the vid:




    What I know about so far....
    Long haul is real and since it includes psychological issues some doctors think that people do have 'nothing' but are just depressed. It's a shame.

    The recent theory is that those individuals have problems with their immune system (activated, non classical M2 monocytes).
    It seems the S1 subunit of the spike is responsible for that.

    Also MAS plays a role, probably. (Mast cell activation syndrome.).

    There are 3 major approaches.
    Anti-viral drugs
    Steroids to suppress the immune system and after stopping them to kick-start the immune system again.
    Anti histamines against MAS.


    Well, the IVM boxes on the page seem to be legit.
    But what you really get is another question.

    When I ordered IVM from a pharma vendor I cross-checked against original manufacturer which is Iverheal from Healing Pharma.
    Since I have to do with meds myself I can make an opinion about quality from checking it physically first.

    Since we do not have a reference to IVM, the substance itself, we did a quick test to see if it is pure at least.
    The tablets I have got contain one pure active drug which fits to one value of a reference value found in literature. (Rf value obtained from TLC= thin layer chromatography)
    This is of course from a scientific point not sufficient to characterise the full quality of the tablets.
    But I am fine with that.

    You actually need the reference substance and then to analyse the tablets using HPLC. (High performance liquid chromatography).
     
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