Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Yes, IN SPITE of data on a large scale.... and the logic of such a move, which saves lives and/or hospitalisations/resources... Better to suffer, sure... if you're a Buddhist...

    Sometimes you really are adrift...
     
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  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    #3162 Yen, Sep 9, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
    Not me. Tell me why recovered people do not get a passport at will? They even are asked to get vaccinated additionally!!! This is an infinite risk/benefit relation! Zero benefit (natural immunity is best you can get) and only risks...

    And tell my why they still use the old wuhan spike although they KNOW effectiveness has dropped? Booster, booster, booster of old stuff? Money talks..
    This is not only adrift..this is medical insanity.

    OK something new: :)

    A new vaccine has got EUA:
    "India’s DNA COVID vaccine is a world first – more are coming"
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02385-x

    It is a different type.
    They use a plasmid to get the genetic code for the spike into a cell. This is a DNA vaccine (such as vector, too).

    It requires three shots.
    It's a needle free 'jet' injection s.c. (under the skin)
    https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/vaccines/zycov-d-covid-19-vaccine


    Efficacy is comparable to the other mediocre vaccines which are based on vector (J&J, AZ)...
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00300-X/fulltext
     
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Yes, @Yen, you!! Here you are mixing 2 completely different issues!

    A medical/scientific and political! That way, without differentiations scientific mind must continuously do - there is no rational conversation. This is tribal. And yes, you are adrift, if you can't see that and if you continue to do the same thing over and over again!!!

    Science and economics now. The same principle.

    Valid points need to be discussed but not by jumbling it all into the same sack and now you have potatoes, apples, pears, fish, power games and cherry pie - wooo-hooo... Fun, fun, fun...
     
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  4. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Bla bla bla pinky

    Consider this post my present for you to praise your verborrhea :tooth:




    Lyrics:
    Do you feel what I feel, see what I see, hear what I hear?
    There is a line you must draw between your dream world and reality
    Do you live my life or share the breath I breathe?

    Lies feed your judgement of others
    Behold how the blind lead each other
    The philosopher
    You know so much about nothing at all

    Ideas that fall under shadows of theories that stand tall
    Thoughts that grow narrow upon being verbally released

    Your mind is not your own
    What sounds more mentally stimulating is how you make your choice
    So you preach about how I'm supposed to be
    Yet you don't know your own sexuality

    Lies feed your judgement of others
    Behold how the blind lead each other
    The philosopher
    You know so much about nothing at all


    The meaning behind Death's The Philosopher
    The Philosopher is the ultimate track off of Death's 1993 release Individual Thought Patterns. It is often viewed as one of the greatest lyrical works of the bands front man Charles “Chuck” Schuldiner. In it, Schuldiner uses the character of 'The Philosopher' as a synecdoche to criticize modern philosophy. This begs the question, how exactly do the lyrics of The Philosopher show Schuldiners negative view of philosophy in the mid 1990s? The response should become much more clear after a stanza by stanza analysis of the song. Each stanza (as well as the refrain) seems to communicate a new reason to discard modern philosophy and to show another reason as to why philosophers in general should not be trusted. It is truly impressive to see how in just thirteen lines Schuldiner manages to tear apart the prime tenets of 'the art of thought'.

    In the first stanza Schuldiner immediately questions the credibility of philosophers in general. It directly showcases his belief that there is no use for philosophy in any society. With the very first line Schuldiner uses a burst of rhetoric to cast aside their apparent merit. He writes “Do you feel what I feel, see what I see, hear what I hear”. He repeats this idea at the end of the stanza too, saying; “ Do you live my life or share the breath I breathe”. In short, he is trying to prove that the philosophers 'dream world' is very different from his 'reality'. (A concept touched on by his good friend and collaborator Paul Masvidal in his classic song Veil of Maya) The purpose of this verse seems to be to give the reader a sense that philosophers are not to be trusted as they try to make conjectures about lives they could never fully understand as they are not their own. It shows his negative viewpoint by casting aspersions upon some of the essential concepts of philosophy by saying that no one can be fully understood by another human being, he further questions the tenets of philosophy in the next verse.

    Throughout this second stanza Schuldiner seemingly looks down upon some of the basic processes behind philosophy. When he says “Ideas that fall under shadows that stand tall” he is using a memorable meter and rhyme scheme to create a sort of slogan for his anti-philosopher message. The phrase 'Ideas that fall' seems to be making reference to some of the core ideals of philosophy, which, as we have already seen, Schuldiner views as false. According to him these very ideas are “Thoughts that grow narrow upon being verbally released”. One reading of the text would suggest that Schuldiner is saying their core doctrines can not even be put into words because it prevents them from seeing the true nature of reality and thus creating flawed ideologies. Yet because the philosophers can not escape this bind Schuldiner states “Your mind is not your own”. That is to say, that the character of The Philosopher (who is the “You” in this song) is so entrenched in his own paradigms that he no longer has full control of his mind. (Another concept heavily dealt with in the music of Paul Masvidal as well as in the works of the more contemporary lyricist Peter Tomis). In sum, this further proves to the reader that philosophers, as we have them today, have no real merit, and that therefore, as stated in the following verse, they should have no right to tell anyone how to live.

    The third stanza, deals directly with the preaching of philosophers. This introduces a running theme that is apparent throughout Schuldiners body of work, his idea that people should 'Practice what they preach'. (An idea that is also thoroughly dealt with by the band Testament) In this stanza Schuldiner successfully outlines why philosophers should not be allowed to preach their ideals to the people. Schuldiner says of 'The Philosopher' “You preach about how I'm supposed to be, yet you don't know your own sexuality”, which essentially is his way of saying that if one can not understand basic truths about themselves they should not be telling others how to live. This is also another example of Schuldiners superior use of rhythm and meter to give his songs a sense of flow. He further derides philosophers by saying of them “What sounds more mentally stimulating is how you make your choice”. That is, they do not care about what is logical or correct, but only what is complex and interesting. This suggests that the philosophers are directly violating one of their own core concepts, Occams Razor, making them hypocrites on top of everything else. Through this stanza Schuldiner is telling readers (or listeners as the case may be) that they should not pay attention to philosophers because they fail to practice as they preach, this obviously furthers his agenda.

    So finally we arrive at the refrain which is repeated twice in the text. Once right after the first stanza as a sort of prelude of things to come and then at the end of the piece as a sort of summary of the message of the song. The refrain successfully distills the essence of the poems message into a sparse four lines. (One containing a mere two words). The first two lines deal with stanzas two and three respectively. Line two of the refrain reads “Lies feed your judgment of others” which is immediately reminiscent of the line “Your mind is not your own”. I think that this is referring to the problems with the paradigms of modern day philosophy. The second line of the refrain “Behold how the blind lead each other” seems to be a direct reference to the idea in the third verse that philosophers are really no greater than the rest of us and in fact quite a bit worse. Suffice to say that they do not 'see' (in reference to the idea of the 'blind leading') into the human psyche. The ultimate line of the refrain is possibly referring to the premier verse when it says “You know so much about nothing at all” which is touched on when Schuldiner initially uses rhetoric to question what philosophers really can claim to know. (Seeing as they do not, feel, see, or hear the same thing as him). In essence this is really just a summary of the text, it would seem that no new ideas are introduced but the old ones are reinforced, providing the metaphorical final nail into the coffin of philosophy.

    To finish, the song The Philosopher clearly depicts Chuck Schuldiners reasons for disliking philosophy as it is in our world today. By looking at each stanza in depth the reasons that Schuldiner dislikes it become fairly clear. Each stanza has one fairly clear main idea which furthers his agenda. He sees philosophers as not truly understanding any individual humans psyche (as seen in the first stanza), he also believes that their paradigms are null and void and furthermore limit their perception of the world (as discussed in the second), and finally Schuldiner believes that they have no right to preach their way of living onto others as they have yet to even know their 'own sexuality' (A concept dealt with in the third). However, at this point, one must ask themselves the question, this anti-philosopher ideology is a sort of philosophy in and of its self. Does this make Chuck Schuldiner himself a hypocrite?

    http://www.twoguysmetalreviews.com/2013/05/the-philosopher-commentary-on-death-song.html?m=1
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    If you see it that way I have to mix that. Sorry.

    I can list the points which seem to me reasonable and not adrift. (Including latest scientific papers I have posted.)

    -People who got through COVID and have recovered have to get a passport. They are NOT eligible for any vaccine. Public health has to care about health and must not 'order' a measure that has zero benefit and an amount of unknown risk only.

    -Efficacy against delta has dropped. A booster makes only sense if the antigen reflects delta. The immune system will 'wake up' and undergoes affinity maturation. By that it can learn, with old wuhan antigen you get nothing in addition, the same ABs will be created and by that a level that is 10 times higher as natural ABs. This opens risks for ADE like issues.

    -People who have a vaccine passport are excluded from further testing. Public health has to care here, too.
    Since they do shed delta as the unvacced it is irresponsible to exclude them from further testing.

    -Vaccinate kids: Their immune system is still developing. Gene based vaccines have no long term data, their risk of getting severe COVID is rather low. Result: Negative risk/benefit ratio. Gene based vaccines are not indicated. Kids require our special care.

    Personally related.
    I know my medical history. My personal risk/benefit analyses is negative for gene based vaccines. Reason: I do not know what they will do in my body in the future. This can change for Novavax, though. This kind of vaccine is known already. And I am not unprepared.

    And a summary:
    No to mass vaccination. Each individual has a different situation. And we know now it won't stop the pandemic.
    Delta peak amounts in unvaxxed and vaxxed are he same.

    And finally: Testing is an appropriate substitute to contribute to solidarity. It makes it hard to infect others.
    All that's left is the own health, and there are effective drugs which can avoid occupying hospitals if administered early enough AND if they are not censored!
    And once being through COVID the potential has gone. Vaccines are no subject anymore.

    Vaccines are still treated as an holy grail. They do NOT perform as they are sold in public health politics.
    To push them at any costs is irresponsible.

    And furthermore it creates a two class society where the vaxxed are pointing fingers to the unvaxxed as pointing on an enemy.

    Each one should make an own individual decision and not create imaginary enemies.
    Once vaccinated one is protected as one thinks to whatever level. No need to see the unvaxxed as an enemy.

    Either one is convinced and nobody can do harm to them or....the vaccines are not that protective.

    If the latter is an individual consideration then well vaccination gets individually questionable.
    But being convinced of the vaccines and creating enemies from the unvaxxed is a no go.

    This is my sense of being reasonable.
     
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  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    "Each individual's situation... blah-blah" = no science is possible...

    You are now officially adrift on high seas of emotion...

    Farewell, old friend... Sorry to lose you!!!
     
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  7. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Myocarditis Post-Vaccine

    In the seminar I gave yesterday on inoculation in children and adolescents, I mentioned that there were 71 scientific articles which presented evidence of myocarditis that occurred after the administration of a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine.

    Here is a list in case you are interested to find and read these references.

    Regards, Karina AW

    1: Han B, Song Y, Li C, Yang W, Ma Q, Jiang Z, Li M, Lian X, Jiao W, Wang L, Shu
    Q, Wu Z, Zhao Y, Li Q, Gao Q. Safety, tolerability, and immunogenicity of an
    inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (CoronaVac) in healthy children and adolescents:
    a double-blind, randomised, controlled, phase 1/2 clinical trial. Lancet Infect
    Dis. 2021 Jun 28:S1473-3099(21)00319-4. doi: 10.1016/S1473-3099(21)00319-4. Epub
    ahead of print. PMID: 34197764; PMCID: PMC8238449.

    2: Hause AM, Gee J, Baggs J, Abara WE, Marquez P, Thompson D, Su JR, Licata C,
    Rosenblum HG, Myers TR, Shimabukuro TT, Shay DK. COVID-19 Vaccine Safety in
    Adolescents Aged 12-17 Years - United States, December 14, 2020-July 16, 2021.
    MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2021 Aug 6;70(31):1053-1058. doi:
    10.15585/mmwr.mm7031e1. PMID: 34351881; PMCID: PMC8367318.

    3: Frenck RW Jr, Klein NP, Kitchin N, Gurtman A, Absalon J, Lockhart S, Perez
    JL, Walter EB, Senders S, Bailey R, Swanson KA, Ma H, Xu X, Koury K, Kalina WV,
    Cooper D, Jennings T, Brandon DM, Thomas SJ, Türeci Ö, Tresnan DB, Mather S,
    Dormitzer PR, Şahin U, Jansen KU, Gruber WC; C4591001 Clinical Trial Group.
    Safety, Immunogenicity, and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 Covid-19 Vaccine in
    Adolescents. N Engl J Med. 2021 Jul 15;385(3):239-250. doi:
    10.1056/NEJMoa2107456. Epub 2021 May 27. PMID: 34043894; PMCID: PMC8174030.

    4: Singh B, Kaur P, Cedeno L, Brahimi T, Patel P, Virk H, Shamoon F, Bikkina M.
    COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine and Myocarditis. Eur J Case Rep Intern Med. 2021 Jun
    14;8(7):002681. doi: 10.12890/2021_002681. PMID: 34268277; PMCID: PMC8276934.

    5: Salah HM, Mehta JL. COVID-19 Vaccine and Myocarditis. Am J Cardiol. 2021 Jul
    12:S0002-9149(21)00639-1. doi: 10.1016/j.amjcard.2021.07.009. Epub ahead of
    print. PMID: 34399967; PMCID: PMC8272967.

    6: Sulemankhil I, Abdelrahman M, Negi SI. Temporal association between the
    COVID-19 Ad26.COV2.S vaccine and acute myocarditis: A case report and literature
    review. Cardiovasc Revasc Med. 2021 Aug 16:S1553-8389(21)00578-9. doi:
    10.1016/j.carrev.2021.08.012. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34420869; PMCID:
    PMC8364889.

    7: Park H, Yun KW, Kim KR, Song SH, Ahn B, Kim DR, Kim GB, Huh J, Choi EH, Kim
    YJ. Epidemiology and Clinical Features of Myocarditis/Pericarditis before the
    Introduction of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Korean Children: a Multicenter Study. J
    Korean Med Sci. 2021 Aug 16;36(32):e232. doi: 10.3346/jkms.2021.36.e232. PMID:
    34402230; PMCID: PMC8369310.

    8: Kerneis M, Bihan K, Salem JE. COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis. Arch
    Cardiovasc Dis. 2021 Jun-Jul;114(6-7):515-517. doi: 10.1016/j.acvd.2021.06.001.
    Epub 2021 Jun 26. PMID: 34246566; PMCID: PMC8233865.

    9: Diaz GA, Parsons GT, Gering SK, Meier AR, Hutchinson IV, Robicsek A.
    Myocarditis and Pericarditis After Vaccination for COVID-19. JAMA. 2021 Aug
    4:e2113443. doi: 10.1001/jama.2021.13443. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34347001;
    PMCID: PMC8340007.

    10: Vidula MK, Ambrose M, Glassberg H, Chokshi N, Chen T, Ferrari VA, Han Y.
    Myocarditis and Other Cardiovascular Complications of the mRNA-Based COVID-19
    Vaccines. Cureus. 2021 Jun 10;13(6):e15576. doi: 10.7759/cureus.15576. PMID:
    34277198; PMCID: PMC8270057.

    11: Das BB, Moskowitz WB, Taylor MB, Palmer A. Myocarditis and Pericarditis
    Following mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination: What Do We Know So Far? Children (Basel).
    2021 Jul 18;8(7):607. doi: 10.3390/children8070607. PMID: 34356586; PMCID:
    PMC8305058.

    12: Pepe S, Gregory AT, Denniss AR. Myocarditis, Pericarditis and Cardiomyopathy
    After COVID-19 Vaccination. Heart Lung Circ. 2021 Oct;30(10):1425-1429. doi:
    10.1016/j.hlc.2021.07.011. Epub 2021 Jul 31. PMID: 34340927; PMCID: PMC8324414.

    13: Luk A, Clarke B, Dahdah N, Ducharme A, Krahn A, McCrindle B, Mizzi T, Naus
    M, Udell JA, Virani S, Zieroth S, McDonald M. Myocarditis and Pericarditis
    following COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination: Practical Considerations for Care
    Providers. Can J Cardiol. 2021 Aug 7:S0828-282X(21)00624-3. doi:
    10.1016/j.cjca.2021.08.001. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34375696; PMCID:
    PMC8349442.

    14: Bozkurt B, Kamat I, Hotez PJ. Myocarditis With COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines.
    Circulation. 2021 Aug 10;144(6):471-484. doi: 10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.056135.
    Epub 2021 Jul 20. PMID: 34281357; PMCID: PMC8340726.

    15: Shaw KE, Cavalcante JL, Han BK, Gössl M. Possible Association Between
    COVID-19 Vaccine and Myocarditis: Clinical and CMR Findings. JACC Cardiovasc
    Imaging. 2021 Jun 16;14(9):1856–61. doi: 10.1016/j.jcmg.2021.06.002. Epub ahead
    of print. PMID: 34246586; PMCID: PMC8245050.

    16: Boehmer TK, Kompaniyets L, Lavery AM, Hsu J, Ko JY, Yusuf H, Romano SD,
    Gundlapalli AV, Oster ME, Harris AM. Association Between COVID-19 and
    Myocarditis Using Hospital-Based Administrative Data - United States, March
    2020-January 2021. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2021 Sep 3;70(35):1228-1232. doi:
    10.15585/mmwr.mm7035e5. PMID: 34473684.

    17: Abu Mouch S, Roguin A, Hellou E, Ishai A, Shoshan U, Mahamid L, Zoabi M,
    Aisman M, Goldschmid N, Berar Yanay N. Myocarditis following COVID-19 mRNA
    vaccination. Vaccine. 2021 Jun 29;39(29):3790-3793. doi:
    10.1016/j.vaccine.2021.05.087. Epub 2021 May 28. PMID: 34092429; PMCID:
    PMC8162819.

    18: Hudson B, Mantooth R, DeLaney M. Myocarditis and pericarditis after
    vaccination for COVID-19. J Am Coll Emerg Physicians Open. 2021 Jul
    26;2(4):e12498. doi: 10.1002/emp2.12498. PMID: 34337595; PMCID: PMC8313036.

    19: Dionne A, Sperotto F, Chamberlain S, Baker AL, Powell AJ, Prakash A,
    Castellanos DA, Saleeb SF, de Ferranti SD, Newburger JW, Friedman KG.
    Association of Myocarditis With BNT162b2 Messenger RNA COVID-19 Vaccine in a
    Case Series of Children. JAMA Cardiol. 2021 Aug 10:e213471. doi:
    10.1001/jamacardio.2021.3471. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34374740; PMCID:
    PMC8356143.

    20: Gargano JW, Wallace M, Hadler SC, Langley G, Su JR, Oster ME, Broder KR, Gee
    J, Weintraub E, Shimabukuro T, Scobie HM, Moulia D, Markowitz LE, Wharton M,
    McNally VV, Romero JR, Talbot HK, Lee GM, Daley MF, Oliver SE. Use of mRNA
    COVID-19 Vaccine After Reports of Myocarditis Among Vaccine Recipients: Update
    from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices - United States, June
    2021. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2021 Jul 9;70(27):977-982. doi:
    10.15585/mmwr.mm7027e2. PMID: 34237049; PMCID: PMC8312754.

    21: Nassar M, Nso N, Gonzalez C, Lakhdar S, Alshamam M, Elshafey M, Abdalazeem
    Y, Nyein A, Punzalan B, Durrance RJ, Alfishawy M, Bakshi S, Rizzo V. COVID-19
    vaccine-induced myocarditis: Case report with literature review. Diabetes Metab
    Syndr. 2021 Jul 10;15(5):102205. doi: 10.1016/j.dsx.2021.102205. Epub ahead of
    print. PMID: 34293552; PMCID: PMC8270733.

    22: Navar AM, McNally E, Yancy CW, O'Gara PT, Bonow RO. Temporal Associations
    Between Immunization With the COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines and Myocarditis: The
    Vaccine Safety Surveillance System Is Working. JAMA Cardiol. 2021 Jun 29. doi:
    10.1001/jamacardio.2021.2853. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34185044.

    23: Albert E, Aurigemma G, Saucedo J, Gerson DS. Myocarditis following COVID-19
    vaccination. Radiol Case Rep. 2021 Aug;16(8):2142-2145. doi:
    10.1016/j.radcr.2021.05.033. Epub 2021 May 18. PMID: 34025885; PMCID:
    PMC8130498.

    24: Wise J. Covid-19: Should we be worried about reports of myocarditis and
    pericarditis after mRNA vaccines? BMJ. 2021 Jun 24;373:n1635. doi:
    10.1136/bmj.n1635. PMID: 34167952.

    25: Montgomery J, Ryan M, Engler R, Hoffman D, McClenathan B, Collins L, Loran
    D, Hrncir D, Herring K, Platzer M, Adams N, Sanou A, Cooper LT Jr. Myocarditis
    Following Immunization With mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines in Members of the US
    Military. JAMA Cardiol. 2021 Jun 29:e212833. doi: 10.1001/jamacardio.2021.2833.
    Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34185045; PMCID: PMC8243257.

    26: Kim HW, Jenista ER, Wendell DC, Azevedo CF, Campbell MJ, Darty SN, Parker
    MA, Kim RJ. Patients With Acute Myocarditis Following mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination.
    JAMA Cardiol. 2021 Jun 29:e212828. doi: 10.1001/jamacardio.2021.2828. Epub ahead
    of print. PMID: 34185046; PMCID: PMC8243258.

    27: Cai C, Peng Y, Shen E, Huang Q, Chen Y, Liu P, Guo C, Feng Z, Gao L, Zhang
    X, Gao Y, Liu Y, Han Y, Zeng S, Shen H. A comprehensive analysis of the efficacy
    and safety of COVID-19 vaccines. Mol Ther. 2021 Sep 1;29(9):2794-2805. doi:
    10.1016/j.ymthe.2021.08.001. Epub 2021 Aug 6. PMID: 34365034; PMCID: PMC8342868.

    28: Singer ME, Taub IB, Kaelber DC. Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection
    in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis. medRxiv [Preprint]. 2021
    Jul 27:2021.07.23.21260998. doi: 10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998. PMID: 34341797;
    PMCID: PMC8328065.

    29: Isaak A, Feisst A, Luetkens JA. Myocarditis Following COVID-19 Vaccination.
    Radiology. 2021 Aug 3:211766. doi: 10.1148/radiol.2021211766. Epub ahead of
    print. PMID: 34342500; PMCID: PMC8369878.

    30: Verma AK, Lavine KJ, Lin CY. Myocarditis after Covid-19 mRNA Vaccination. N
    Engl J Med. 2021 Aug 18:NEJMc2109975. doi: 10.1056/NEJMc2109975. Epub ahead of
    print. PMID: 34407340; PMCID: PMC8385564.

    31: Kerbl R. Myokarditis nach COVID-19-mRNA-Impfung [Myocarditis after COVID-19
    mRNA vaccination]. Monatsschr Kinderheilkd. 2021 Aug 10:1-2. German. doi:
    10.1007/s00112-021-01283-w. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34393273; PMCID:
    PMC8354092.

    32: Bautista García J, Peña Ortega P, Bonilla Fernández JA, Cárdenes León A,
    Ramírez Burgos L, Caballero Dorta E. Acute myocarditis after administration of
    the BNT162b2 vaccine against COVID-19. Rev Esp Cardiol (Engl Ed). 2021
    Sep;74(9):812-814. doi: 10.1016/j.rec.2021.04.005. Epub 2021 Apr 27. PMID:
    33994339; PMCID: PMC8075838.

    33: Marshall M, Ferguson ID, Lewis P, Jaggi P, Gagliardo C, Collins JS,
    Shaughnessy R, Caron R, Fuss C, Corbin KJE, Emuren L, Faherty E, Hall EK, Di
    Pentima C, Oster ME, Paintsil E, Siddiqui S, Timchak DM, Guzman-Cottrill JA.
    Symptomatic Acute Myocarditis in 7 Adolescents After Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
    Vaccination. Pediatrics. 2021 Sep;148(3):e2021052478. doi:
    10.1542/peds.2021-052478. Epub 2021 Jun 4. PMID: 34088762.

    34: Rosenblum HG, Hadler SC, Moulia D, Shimabukuro TT, Su JR, Tepper NK, Ess KC,
    Woo EJ, Mba-Jonas A, Alimchandani M, Nair N, Klein NP, Hanson KE, Markowitz LE,
    Wharton M, McNally VV, Romero JR, Talbot HK, Lee GM, Daley MF, Mbaeyi SA, Oliver
    SE. Use of COVID-19 Vaccines After Reports of Adverse Events Among Adult
    Recipients of Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) and mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines (Pfizer-
    BioNTech and Moderna): Update from the Advisory Committee on Immunization
    Practices - United States, July 2021. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2021 Aug
    13;70(32):1094-1099. doi: 10.15585/mmwr.mm7032e4. PMID: 34383735; PMCID:
    PMC8360272.

    35: Jain SS, Steele JM, Fonseca B, Huang S, Shah S, Maskatia SA, Buddhe S, Misra
    N, Ramachandran P, Gaur L, Eshtehardi P, Anwar S, Kaushik N, Han F, Chaudhuri
    NR, Grosse-Wortmann L. COVID-19 Vaccination-Associated Myocarditis in
    Adolescents. Pediatrics. 2021 Aug 13:e2021053427. doi: 10.1542/peds.2021-053427.

    36: Bautista García J, Peña Ortega P, Bonilla Fernández JA, Cárdenes León A,
    Ramírez Burgos L, Caballero Dorta E. Miocarditis aguda tras administración de
    vacuna BNT162b2 contra la COVID-19 [Acute myocarditis after administration of
    the BNT162b2 vaccine against COVID-19]. Rev Esp Cardiol. 2021 Sep;74(9):812-814.
    Spanish. doi: 10.1016/j.recesp.2021.03.009. Epub 2021 Mar 20. PMID: 33776190;

    37: Nevet A. Acute myocarditis associated with anti-COVID-19 vaccination. Clin
    Exp Vaccine Res. 2021 May;10(2):196-197. doi: 10.7774/cevr.2021.10.2.196. Epub
    2021 May 31. PMID: 34222133; PMCID: PMC8217579.

    38: Abbate A, Gavin J, Madanchi N, Kim C, Shah PR, Klein K, Boatman J, Roberts
    C, Patel S, Danielides S. Fulminant myocarditis and systemic hyperinflammation
    temporally associated with BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in two patients.
    Int J Cardiol. 2021 Aug 18:S0167-5273(21)01228-6. doi:
    10.1016/j.ijcard.2021.08.018. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34416319; PMCID:
    PMC8372420.

    39: Kim IC, Kim H, Lee HJ, Kim JY, Kim JY. Cardiac Imaging of Acute Myocarditis
    Following COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination. J Korean Med Sci. 2021 Aug 16;36(32):e229.
    doi: 10.3346/jkms.2021.36.e229. PMID: 34402228; PMCID: PMC8369314.

    40: Lazaros G, Klein AL, Hatziantoniou S, Tsioufis C, Tsakris A, Anastassopoulou
    C. The Novel Platform of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines and Myocarditis: Clues into the
    Potential Underlying Mechanism. Vaccine. 2021 Aug 16;39(35):4925-4927. doi:
    10.1016/j.vaccine.2021.07.016. Epub 2021 Jul 13. PMID: 34312010; PMCID:
    PMC8275472.

    41: Rosner CM, Genovese L, Tehrani BN, Atkins M, Bakhshi H, Chaudhri S, Damluji
    AA, de Lemos JA, Desai SS, Emaminia A, Flanagan MC, Khera A, Maghsoudi A,
    Mekonnen G, Muthukumar A, Saeed IM, Sherwood MW, Sinha SS, O'Connor CM,
    deFilippi CR. Myocarditis Temporally Associated With COVID-19 Vaccination.
    Circulation. 2021 Aug 10;144(6):502-505. doi: 10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.055891.
    Epub 2021 Jun 16. PMID: 34133885; PMCID: PMC8340723.

    42: Deb A, Abdelmalek J, Iwuji K, Nugent K. Acute Myocardial Injury Following
    COVID-19 Vaccination: A Case Report and Review of Current Evidence from Vaccine
    Adverse Events Reporting System Database. J Prim Care Community Health. 2021
    Jan-Dec;12:21501327211029230. doi: 10.1177/21501327211029230. PMID: 34219532;
    PMCID: PMC8255555.

    43: Starekova J, Bluemke DA, Bradham WS, Grist TM, Schiebler ML, Reeder SB.
    Myocarditis Associated with mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination. Radiology. 2021 Jul
    20:211430. doi: 10.1148/radiol.2021211430. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34282971.

    44: Tano E, San Martin S, Girgis S, Martinez-Fernandez Y, Sanchez Vegas C.
    Perimyocarditis in Adolescents After Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. J
    Pediatric Infect Dis Soc. 2021 Jul 28:piab060. doi: 10.1093/jpids/piab060. Epub
    ahead of print. PMID: 34319393; PMCID: PMC8344528.

    45: Viskin D, Topilsky Y, Aviram G, Mann T, Sadon S, Hadad Y, Flint N,
    Shmilovich H, Banai S, Havakuk O. Myocarditis Associated With COVID-19
    Vaccination: Echocardiography, Cardiac Tomography, and Magnetic Resonance
    Imaging Findings. Circ Cardiovasc Imaging. 2021 Aug 25:CIRCIMAGING121013236.
    doi: 10.1161/CIRCIMAGING.121.013236. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34428917.

    46: Mansour J, Short RG, Bhalla S, Woodard PK, Verma A, Robinson X, Raptis DA.
    Acute myocarditis after a second dose of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccine: a report of
    two cases. Clin Imaging. 2021 Oct;78:247-249. doi:
    10.1016/j.clinimag.2021.06.019. Epub 2021 Jun 18. PMID: 34166884; PMCID:
    PMC8216670.

    47: Shay DK, Shimabukuro TT, DeStefano F. Myocarditis Occurring After
    Immunization With mRNA-Based COVID-19 Vaccines. JAMA Cardiol. 2021 Jun 29. doi:
    10.1001/jamacardio.2021.2821. Epub

    48: Muthukumar A, Narasimhan M, Li QZ, Mahimainathan L, Hitto I, Fuda F, Batra
    K, Jiang X, Zhu C, Schoggins J, Cutrell JB, Croft CL, Khera A, Drazner MH,
    Grodin JL, Greenberg BM, Mammen PPA, Morrison SJ, de Lemos JA. In-Depth
    Evaluation of a Case of Presumed Myocarditis After the Second Dose of COVID-19
    mRNA Vaccine. Circulation. 2021 Aug 10;144(6):487-498. doi:
    10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.056038. Epub 2021 Jun 16. PMID: 34133883; PMCID:
    PMC8340727.

    49: Ioannou A. Myocarditis should be considered in those with a troponin rise
    and unobstructed coronary arteries following Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
    vaccination. QJM. 2021 Aug 31:hcab231. doi: 10.1093/qjmed/hcab231. Epub ahead of
    print. PMID: 34463755.

    50: King WW, Petersen MR, Matar RM, Budweg JB, Cuervo Pardo L, Petersen JW.
    Myocarditis following mRNA vaccination against SARS-CoV-2, a case series. Am
    Heart J Plus. 2021 Aug;8:100042. doi: 10.1016/j.ahjo.2021.100042. Epub 2021 Aug
    9. PMID: 34396358; PMCID: PMC8349733.

    51: Sokolska JM, Kurcz J, Kosmala W. Every rose has its thorns - acute
    myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination. Kardiol Pol. 2021 Jul 31. doi:
    10.33963/KP.a2021.0075. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34331307.

    52: Chamling B, Vehof V, Drakos S, Weil M, Stalling P, Vahlhaus C, Mueller P,
    Bietenbeck M, Reinecke H, Meier C, Yilmaz A. Occurrence of acute infarct-like
    myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination: just an accidental co-incidence or
    rather vaccination-associated autoimmune myocarditis? Clin Res Cardiol. 2021 Jul
    31:1–5. doi: 10.1007/s00392-021-01916-w. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34333695;
    PMCID: PMC8325525.

    53: Larson KF, Ammirati E, Adler ED, Cooper LT Jr, Hong KN, Saponara G, Couri D,
    Cereda A, Procopio A, Cavalotti C, Oliva F, Sanna T, Ciconte VA, Onyango G,
    Holmes DR, Borgeson DD. Myocarditis After BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 Vaccination.
    Circulation. 2021 Aug 10;144(6):506-508. doi: 10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.055913.
    Epub 2021 Jun 16. PMID: 34133884; PMCID: PMC8340725.

    54: Minocha PK, Better D, Singh RK, Hoque T. Recurrence of Acute Myocarditis
    Temporally Associated with Receipt of the mRNA Coronavirus Disease 2019
    (COVID-19) Vaccine in a Male Adolescent. J Pediatr. 2021 Jun
    22:S0022-3476(21)00617-X. doi: 10.1016/j.jpeds.2021.06.035. Epub ahead of print.
    PMID: 34166671; PMCID: PMC8216855.

    55: Cimaglia P, Tolomeo P, Rapezzi C. Acute Myocarditis after SARS-CoV-2
    Vaccination in a 24-Year-Old Man. Rev Port Cardiol. 2021 Jul 24. doi:
    10.1016/j.repc.2021.07.005. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34334935; PMCID:
    PMC8302854.

    56: D'Angelo T, Cattafi A, Carerj ML, Booz C, Ascenti G, Cicero G, Blandino A,
    Mazziotti S. Myocarditis after SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination: A Vaccine-induced
    Reaction? Can J Cardiol. 2021 Jun 9:S0828-282X(21)00286-5. doi:
    10.1016/j.cjca.2021.05.010. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34118375; PMCID:
    PMC8187737.

    57: Park J, Brekke DR, Bratincsak A. Self-limited myocarditis presenting with
    chest pain and ST segment elevation in adolescents after vaccination with the
    BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine. Cardiol Young. 2021 Jun 28:1-4. doi:
    10.1017/S1047951121002547. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34180390.

    58: Watkins K, Griffin G, Septaric K, Simon EL. Myocarditis after BNT162b2
    vaccination in a healthy male. Am J Emerg Med. 2021 Jun
    29:S0735-6757(21)00536-2. doi: 10.1016/j.ajem.2021.06.051. Epub ahead of print.
    PMID: 34229940; PMCID: PMC8238643.

    59: McLean K, Johnson TJ. Myopericarditis in a previously healthy adolescent
    male following COVID-19 vaccination: A case report. Acad Emerg Med. 2021
    Aug;28(8):918-921. doi: 10.1111/acem.14322. Epub 2021 Jul 21. PMID: 34133825.

    60: Patrignani A, Schicchi N, Calcagnoli F, Falchetti E, Ciampani N, Argalia G,
    Mariani A. Acute myocarditis following Comirnaty vaccination in a healthy man
    with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. Radiol Case Rep. 2021 Nov;16(11):3321-3325.
    doi: 10.1016/j.radcr.2021.07.082. Epub 2021 Aug 2. PMID: 34367386; PMCID:
    PMC8326008.

    61: Li X, Ostropolets A, Makadia R, Shaoibi A, Rao G, Sena AG, Martinez-
    Hernandez E, Delmestri A, Verhamme K, Rijnbeek PR, Duarte-Salles T, Suchard M,
    Ryan P, Hripcsak G, Prieto-Alhambra D. Characterizing the incidence of adverse
    events of special interest for COVID-19 vaccines across eight countries: a
    multinational network cohort study. medRxiv [Preprint]. 2021 Apr
    17:2021.03.25.21254315. doi: 10.1101/2021.03.25.21254315. Update in: This
    article has been published with doi: 10.1136/bmj.n1435. PMID: 33791732; PMCID:
    PMC8010764.

    62: Ehrlich P, Klingel K, Ohlmann-Knafo S, Hüttinger S, Sood N, Pickuth D,
    Kindermann M. Biopsy-proven lymphocytic myocarditis following first mRNA
    COVID-19 vaccination in a 40-year-old male: case report. Clin Res Cardiol. 2021
    Sep 6:1–5. doi: 10.1007/s00392-021-01936-6. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34487236;
    PMCID: PMC8419377.

    63: Williams CB, Choi JI, Hosseini F, Roberts J, Ramanathan K, Ong K. Acute
    Myocarditis Following mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination. CJC Open. 2021 Jul 14.
    doi: 10.1016/j.cjco.2021.07.008. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34308326; PMCID:
    PMC8278869.

    64: O'Leary ST, Maldonado YA. Myocarditis After SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination: True,
    True, and… Related? Pediatrics. 2021 Sep;148(3):e2021052644. doi:
    10.1542/peds.2021-052644. Epub 2021 Jun 4. PMID: 34088761.

    65: Knowlton KU. Insights from a murine model of COVID-19 mRNA vaccination-
    induced myopericarditis: Could accidental intravenous vaccine injection induce
    myopericarditis? Clin Infect Dis. 2021 Aug 28:ciab741. doi: 10.1093/cid/ciab741.
    Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34453510.

    66: Khogali F, Abdelrahman R. Unusual Presentation of Acute Perimyocarditis
    Following SARS-COV-2 mRNA-1237 Moderna Vaccination. Cureus. 2021 Jul
    23;13(7):e16590. doi: 10.7759/cureus.16590. PMID: 34447639; PMCID: PMC8381757.

    67: Hasnie AA, Hasnie UA, Patel N, Aziz MU, Xie M, Lloyd SG, Prabhu SD.
    Perimyocarditis following first dose of the mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 (Moderna)
    vaccine in a healthy young male: a case report. BMC Cardiovasc Disord. 2021 Aug
    4;21(1):375. doi: 10.1186/s12872-021-02183-3. PMID: 34348657; PMCID: PMC8334333.

    68: Habib MB, Hamamyh T, Elyas A, Altermanini M, Elhassan M. Acute myocarditis
    following administration of BNT162b2 vaccine. IDCases. 2021 Jun 16;25:e01197.
    doi: 10.1016/j.idcr.2021.e01197. PMID: 34189042; PMCID: PMC8220234.

    69: Dickey JB, Albert E, Badr M, Laraja KM, Sena LM, Gerson DS, Saucedo JE,
    Qureshi W, Aurigemma GP. A Series of Patients With Myocarditis Following SARS-
    CoV-2 Vaccination With mRNA-1279 and BNT162b2. JACC Cardiovasc Imaging. 2021 Jun
    16;14(9):1862–3. doi: 10.1016/j.jcmg.2021.06.003. Epub ahead of print. PMID:
    34246585; PMCID: PMC8219373.

    70: Cereda A, Conca C, Barbieri L, Ferrante G, Tumminello G, Lucreziotti S,
    Guazzi M, Mafrici A. Acute myocarditis after the second dose of SARS-CoV-2
    vaccine: Serendipity or atypical causal relationship? Anatol J Cardiol. 2021
    Jul;25(7):522-523. doi: 10.5152/AnatolJCardiol.2021.99. PMID: 34236331; PMCID:
    PMC8274899.

    71: Cimaglia P, Tolomeo P, Rapezzi C. Acute myocarditis after SARS-CoV-2
    vaccination in a 24-year-old man. Rev Port Cardiol. 2021 Jul
    24:S0870-2551(21)00324-3. English, Portuguese. doi: 10.1016/j.repc.2021.07.005.
    Epub ahead of print. PMID: 34400043.
    https://t.me/akashacomunidad/523


    This is true unbiased scientific evidence not fancy images from 'Zorro' News
     
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    No offence to anyone: do have a good look at what Lothar Wieler (R. Koch Institute president) is warning about (in Germany), instead of these spurious "big sources"...
     
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  9. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    #3169 Mr.X, Sep 10, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
    Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
    Any argument said is debatable, especially those in science and more especially those coming from authorities.
     
  10. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    #3170 Mr.X, Sep 10, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2021
  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    ?? Vaccination is an individual decision.
    When you consult a doc there is individual decision on products / therapies / services obtained by scientific research.

    No offence taken. Lothar Wieler is a vet. and has no clue about pandemics and epidemiology. He is a puppet of the RKI and politics. No scientist at all.

    My 2 cents.:p:)
     
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  12. Humperdoo

    Humperdoo MDL Novice

    Sep 8, 2021
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    All I know is the vaccine seems to be following along the lines of the Thalidomide scandal here in the UK.
     
  13. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    #3173 Mr.X, Sep 10, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
    #List_of_references_presented_in_the_seminar_of_080921

    Dear Akasha Community members. I share with you the list of digital identification objects (doi, for its acronym in English) or pages of scientific references and links to databases that I presented in the talk. I list them in order of appearance.
    Some references I mentioned again in other slides of the seminar, but in this list I only include them the first time they were mentioned.

    I hope they are useful, Karina AW

    doi: 10/1016 / S1473-3099 (21) 00319-4
    doi: 10.15585 / mmwr.mm7031e1
    doi: 10.1056 / NEJMoa2107456
    https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html
    doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m3862
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32386571/
    doi: 10.1007 / s11481-020-09944-5.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0968-3.pdf
    doi: 10.21203 / rs.3.rs-784784 / v1
    Signorelli & Odoni https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32978645/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289900/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32386571/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33574990/
    https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7239259/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8136805/pdf/bmjpo-2021-001063.pdf
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32537478/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7367792/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8355889/
    doi: 10.1038 / s41598-020-74913-0 2
    doi: 10.1016 / j.arcped.2020.12.008
    doi: 10.3389 / fped.2020.00431
    doi: 10.1073 / pnas.2012358117
    doi: 10.1001 / jamapediatrics.2020.1467
    doi: 10.1186 / s13601-020-00362-7
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32721809/
    doi: 10.1136 / gutjnl-2020-323020
    https://www.minsal.cl/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Informe-epidemiológico-COVID-19-en-niños-niñas-y-adolescentes_SE_9- 11_2020-2021.pdf
    doi: 10.1161 / CIRCRESAHA.121.318902
    doi: 10.1111 / obr.13077
    https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.2021.35.S1.04183
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41375-020-0887-9
    doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.08.01.454605
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17464936/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19864379/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19185596/
    Weng et al. 2009 Virus Res
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fped.2019.00296/full
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33872783/
    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/docume...omirnaty-epar-public-assessment-report_en.pdf.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28457665/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33328624/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33835769/
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109908
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33822348/
    https://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html
    https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
    https://vaers.hhs.gov/
    https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/#a3
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32507409/
    https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext
    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus


    https://t.me/akashacomunidad/531


    Lol this is real science not a mediocre set of screens in a FOX News room.
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Surreal!!!
     
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  15. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Dr Sucharit Bhakdi on vaccines

    https://odysee.com/Sucharit-Bhakdi-on-vaccines:17814d4bfc47093ba69ac250ab4e6b203d5c0147

    Good morning to all the members of Akasha Community. I share with you this video of Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi. He has been one of the most renowned medical microbiologists in the world. He was director of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene at the University of Mainz (Germany). For his investigation he received the Order of Merit. He was editor-in-chief of the scientific journal Medical Microbiology and Immunology from 1990 to 2012. In this video he issues, as a physician and scientist, his recommendation on vaccination against SARS-COV-2 in children. I hope you find the information useful and I hope you have a nice day, Karina AW

    https://t.me/akashacomunidad/532
     
  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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  17. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    270
  18. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    @Mr.X hmm besides this doctor really understand a lot about covid-19 you noticed other good information relating to crypto currencies...
     
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  19. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    #3179 Mr.X, Sep 11, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
    More evidence of the damage mechanism inducing spike

    An article was published in July (as' pre-print) that reported another mechanism of heart damage caused by the Spike protein of SARS-COV-2. The study looked at pericytes (specialized cells in the blood vessels of the heart, which have receptors known as CD147). As you know, the SARS-COV-2 receptor is ACE2, and not CD147, but it was determined that Spike, when free (not associated with the virus) alters the functioning of CD147, causing thromboembolisms that can in turn cause acute heart attacks to the myocardium. They did not study the effect of the vaccine's Spike, but their conclusion cannot fail to be seen in relation to the implications of the mRNA, vectorized and protein vaccines that exist to date against SARS-COV-2.

    You can see the study (in English) at: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.423721v2.full.pdf

    News such as the sudden death from myocardial infarction of two cardiologists draws attention in the context of growing evidence of the mechanisms of damage of the protein Spike. The unfortunate death of both Spanish cardiologists (Rafael Borras and Felix Perez Villa) of approximately 60 years and without previous heart problems, should be thoroughly investigated to determine if the vaccine was responsible. It is irresponsible to adjudicate causation without evidence, but it is equally irresponsible not to determine the cause by all available means, when the mechanisms of harm of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are increasingly clear. It is important especially because the effects of these thrombi formed by the action of Spike can occur months after their formation.

    The news I mention:
    https://diariodecastillayleon.elmun...manca-rafael-borras/20210807113321029603.html

    https://www.redaccionmedica.com/sec...medico-de-trasplante-cardiaco-del-clinic-7158

    I send you greetings, Karina AW

    https://t.me/akashacomunidad/533
     
  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    These problems are very, very rare, FFS!

    Yes, they must be discussed but principle of proportionality ought to be deployed!!!
     
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