Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    As for the bit of partial statistics, Yen and your charge of "no one challenging your statements" - I did! And I stand by it and actually it was YOU who avoided dealing with my points, my critique of such a benevolent use of "statistics"!!

    You are picking and choosing whichever parts fit to the tired old populist narrative. That's all you did with the statistics you chose to point to - cherry-picking the bits that suit your "side". There is nothing to suggest that you even tried minimally to dig into the other side's "statistics" and then "see"...

    Moreover, all of you who are advocating we should not respect the measures, not get vaccinated, not do whatever we can to help out - here it is, once again: HOW MANY MORE LIVES DO YOU WANT TO SACRIFICE ON THE ALTAR OF YOUR DEMAGOGICAL, PREJUDICED LITTLE DOGMA, how many more people, doctors and nurses included, should die doing something that shouldn't be so bad by far?!?

    When we respected the measures - the numbers were down, significantly!!! I DARE ANYONE TO SAY THEY DIDN'T!!!

    And the less we are adhering to them - well, look around you, FFS!!! So, who's a selfish prick in all this, eh?!?
     
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Compare...

    "As China pursues a “zero COVID strategy” that has kept its infection rate well below 1% of the population, the U.S. has embraced a strategy of mass infection and mass death – setting a grim global record of 1 million new cases in the U.S. in a single day.
    To distract from the U.S.’s criminal mishandling of COVID-19, the capitalist-controlled media demonizes China, using racist tropes to distort the reality that China’s policies successfully contained the virus, while the U.S. continued its naked pursuit of profits at the expense of millions of lives.
    With the rapid spread of omicron, the media has doubled down its efforts to vilify China on the world stage – yet the numbers speak for themselves."

    USA v China.jpg
     
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  3. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    And now @Yen comes here to refute with scientific and CORRECT arguments all the demagogy this moron spits all over the thread. This is getting boring.

    Yen why you always have to react to all of his bulls**t? Why?
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #3744 gorski, Jan 9, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
    And now, this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/...6uAh0J6BztVa7QWtyjgQBM8ErRIkBlFc6v33-ae-Z8Z5k

    Kids have a higher chance of developing diabetes after contracting C-19...

    How many of yous are ready to sacrifice - just how many people's health or lives or quality of their lives for your "comfort"?!?

    I posted that in the UK alone more than 1/2 million people have had "long Covid" and can't shake it off...

    And you are all cool with it, are ya? Even though there are better alternatives... SWWWeeeettt!!!

    P.S. MrX and how many sociopaths here are totally oblivious of the fact there are valid and better alternatives...??? Need one "explain" that being a sociopath and not caring about anyone or anything is WRONG?!?
     
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  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    This helps explain these figures/issues well: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...eathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31october2021

    Also this: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

    "Comparisons of the absolute numbers, as some headlines do, is making a mistake that’s known in statistics as a ‘base rate fallacy’: it ignores the fact that one group is much larger than the other. It is important to avoid this mistake, especially now, as in more and more countries the number of people who are vaccinated against COVID-19 is much larger than the number of people who are unvaccinated (see our vaccination data)."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306

    "SAGE noted that most patients admitted to hospital with covid after 16 June 2021 were fully vaccinated.5 Public Health England said that even with a “highly effective vaccine” this was expected, given the high rate of vaccine uptake and a policy of vaccinating higher risk people first. In its latest surveillance report Public Health England emphasised that the rate of hospital admissions and death from covid remained “substantially greater” in unvaccinated than in vaccinated people.6 For example, between the week beginning Monday 16 August 2021 and the week ending Sunday 12 September, the rate of hospital admissions of over 80s was 50.5 per 100 000 in the fully vaccinated and 143.9 per 100 000 in the unvaccinated, while deaths were 45.5 and 145.4 per 100 000, respectively. These trends were seen across the board. For example, for 60-69 year olds the hospital admission rates were 13.5 per 100 000 in the fully vaccinated and 74.3 per 100 000 in the unvaccinated, while deaths were 4.1 and 24.3 per 100 000, respectively."
     
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  6. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Yeah :rolleyes:
     
  7. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Sawdust for brains!!!
    And you are the one who kept repeating the same lies over and over again, so I told you that your hero, a certain Mr Goebbels, has posited that principle and you are continuing to do precisely that! You keep repeating damn lies, over and over again!

    So, some of us will continue challenging those lies!!!
     
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  9. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Evidence of Immune Evasion Relevant to Vaccinated

    In vitro studies that found a lower capacity to neutralize variants other than the reference D614G, which is the one on which the vaccines were based:

    1) Lower ability to neutralize alpha (4 times less) and gamma (10 times less) variants in people who received the Coronavac vaccine from Sinovac https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34460119/

    2) Lower ability to neutralize Delta and Beta variants in people who received the Pfizer / BioNTech vaccine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8652796/

    3) Less ability to neutralize Spike de Ómicron in convalescent non-inoculated people (30 to 60 times) and in people inoculated with Pfizer (30 to 180 times less neutralization) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.12.21267646v1.full-text

    I hope this information will provide you with more knowledge that you are interested in deepening and discussing to reach your own conclusions, Karina AW
     
  10. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    More evidence of the lack of justification to continue vaccinating

    Dear Akasha Community Members: I hope you had a great weekend.

    In March of last year, together with a group of scientists, I sent an open letter to the WHO, health authorities and governments worldwide, warning about what was beginning to be seen after the application of the "COVID-19" inoculations, and requesting that this strategy be discontinued. The letter can be read at: https://www.authorea.com/users/4144...mmit=e6eec0208672efb4629eaadaa7ef7864c1772909

    Almost a year away, and 13 months after the initiation of global mass vaccination on an unprecedented scale (based mainly on two vaccine platforms for which there is little information on their long-term effects, focusing on a viral protein that is the main virulence factor of SARS-CoV-2, using nanolipids that are known to be associated with anaphylactic reactions and severe inflammatory states, ignoring the occurrence of adverse events that have arisen), this call is still valid, among other things because the evidence of the failure of the chosen strategy (or, imposed?) is more and more convincing.

    In the study “Worldwide Bayesian Causal Impact Analysis of Vaccine Administration on Deaths and Cases Associated with COVID-19: A BigData Analysis of 145 Countries” (translation: “Global Bayesian Analysis of the causal impact of vaccine administration on deaths and cases associated with COVID-19 ”), written by Ritchie and collaborators, and which I share with you today, shows - once again - through a different analysis than the conventional one, the failure of vaccination (the study can be read at: https://vector-news.github.io/editorials/CausalAnalysisReport_html.html). It is not published in a scientific journal yet, and given the climate of censorship, I highly doubt that it will succeed. However, based on my knowledge of epidemiology and numerical analysis, it is well founded and developed. If someone does not think so, they should make clear arguments as to why they consider it not a good study, rather than simply underestimate it because they do not like what it says.

    In essence, the authors used a Bayesian approach (that is, an analysis that is not based on probabilistic statistics; see: http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2448-91902018000300205), to answer the following question: if public health policy has maintained that global vaccination would reduce symptoms and therefore cases and deaths associated with COVID-19, is that effect being seen globally? Given the amount of public data available, a study of this magnitude is possible.

    To make their analysis, the authors compared the periods before and after inoculations in each country. They used data from Our World in data (https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus), and based on the Bayesian framework to determine causality (https://doi.org/10.1214/14-aoas788) they investigated the causal effect of the administration of vaccines on two dependent variables: total deaths per million, and total cases per million. They worked with data on 145 countries and found the following:
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Wow!

    "In vitro data suggest that Indian delta variant..."

    Definitive "truth" has come out to bite us in the ass...

    Nope, it's not picking and choosing - just the truth!

    :rolleyes::p:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:p
     
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  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Here's a home truth...

    The price to pay.jpg
     
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  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    #3753 Yen, Jan 11, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
    This is the original headline of the MSM article you have posted:
    "Covid may raise the risk of diabetes in children, C.D.C. researchers reported."

    If one searches there now for "have a higher chance" (what you posted) there is no hit at all.

    You make out of "may raise the risk of diabetes" to a definite "have a higher chance". I bet you even did not follow to the CDC original paper and checked it against the NYT article.

    Even there they say "The observed association between diabetes and COVID-19 might be attributed to the effects of SARS-CoV-2 infection on organ systems involved in diabetes risk."

    You take one study, you are even not able to quote without distorting the original meaning.
    "May raise" suddenly becomes a fact after reading ONE MSM article.

    But you keep on saying adverse events of the vaccines are still low.
    And you keep on saying IVM has no evidence that it works, even though it is not just one RCT study.

    Rationality is different.
    Everyone can comprehend that your bias is always the same and it consists of over-dramatizing COVID, overestimating the vaccines and underestimating the adverse events of the vaccines.
    The bias structure itself is rational of course. It is conform to the narratives of MSM and big pharma and their wanted mass phenomenon.

    Sorry I am not susceptible to that!

    If you are worried about COVID associated diabetes at kids, go vaccinate them.
    But be prepared that you might have to explain your decision to them later in life again...
     
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  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    References
    1. Unsworth R, Wallace S, Oliver NS, et al. New-onset type 1 diabetes in children during COVID-19: multicenter regional findings in the U.K. Diabetes Care 2020;43:e170–1. https://doi.org/10.2337/dc20-1551 PMID:32816997
    2. Vlad A, Serban V, Timar R, et al. Increased incidence of type 1 diabetes during the COVID-19 pandemic in Romanian children. Medicina (Kaunas) 2021;57:973. https://doi.org/10.3390/medicina57090973 PMID:34577896
    3. Kamrath C, Mönkemöller K, Biester T, et al. Ketoacidosis in children and adolescents with newly diagnosed type 1 diabetes during the COVID-19 pandemic in Germany. JAMA 2020;324:801–4. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2020.13445PMID:32702751
    4. Al-Aly Z, Xie Y, Bowe B. High-dimensional characterization of post-acute sequelae of COVID-19. Nature 2021;594:259–64. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-021-03553-9 PMID:33887749
    5. Ayoubkhani D, Khunti K, Nafilyan V, et al. Post-covid syndrome in individuals admitted to hospital with covid-19: retrospective cohort study. BMJ 2021;372:n693. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n693 PMID:33789877
    6. Sathish T, Kapoor N, Cao Y, Tapp RJ, Zimmet P. Proportion of newly diagnosed diabetes in COVID-19 patients: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Diabetes Obes Metab 2021;23:870–4. https://doi.org/10.1111/dom.14269 PMID:33245182
    7. The OpenSAFELY Collaborative; Tazare J, Walker AJ, Tomlinson L, et al. Rates of serious clinical outcomes in survivors of hospitalisation with COVID-19: a descriptive cohort study within the OpenSAFELY platform. medRxiv [Preprint posted online January 25, 2021]. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.22.21250304v2
    8. Bronson SC. Practical scenarios and day-to-day challenges in the management of diabetes in COVID-19—dealing with the ‘double trouble’. Prim Care Diabetes 2021;15:737–9. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.pcd.2021.05.00
    9. PMID:34039524
    10. Duca LM, Reboussin BA, Pihoker C, et al. Diabetic ketoacidosis at diagnosis of type 1 diabetes and glycemic control over time: the SEARCH for diabetes in youth study. Pediatr Diabetes 2019;20:172–9. https://doi.org/10.1111/pedi.12809PMID:30556249
    11. Lawrence JM, Divers J, Isom S, et al.; SEARCH for Diabetes in Youth Study Group. Trends in prevalence of type 1 and type 2 diabetes in children and adolescents in the US, 2001–2017. JAMA 2021;326:717–27. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2021.11165 PMID:34427600
    Sooo, I beg your pardon, @Yen...?!?

    Unless you wanna do the Bolsonaro mob thing: "We do not have the data but we have convictions"?!?

    Otherwise, YOU may have to explain to them later on that you had the option to vaccinate them - but didn't...
     
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  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Another pearl...

    “Austerity is killing hospitals” and “The hospital is not for sale” are some of the slogans that thousands of healthcare workers carried throughout France today.

    Led by the General Confederation of Labour (CGT), 9 organizations mobilized thousands of workers in various French cities today to demand more public spending dedicated to the health sector.

    Doctors, nurses, social workers, nursing homes, and midwives say they are exhausted by the continuous COVID-19 waves. The WHO reported 292,012 new virus cases in the country on Monday.

    As the numbers of patients grow, they find themselves overworked with limited numbers of beds and resources that do not allow them to provide the same level of care they are used to.

    The Ministry of Health decided not to take action last month to respond to staff and bed shortages. Unions say its observations were based on numbers dating back to October or November, “before the Delta and Omicron double waves.”

    Healthcare workers are demanding a significant salary increase with fewer working hours, mass training and hiring of healthcare professionals, and more beds and healthcare establishments.

    @Yen, please explain to them, the medical staff, how you wanna go all out, as before, no vaccinations, everybody back to work, to school - and beat them all into the ground with your ideological recklessness!!!!
     
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  16. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Now waiting for @Yen to react at this provocation:rolleyes:
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Provocation?:eek: Jesus Marx wept!:rolleyes:
     
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  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    No provocation.:)
    It's summarized at the original paper at "Discussion". There is nothing wrong with this chapter, neither do I ignore what they found!
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7102e2.htm?s_cid=mm7102e2_w

    You frequently find there "might"...
    You also find there "Alternatively, COVID-19 might have indirectly increased diabetes risk through pandemic-associated increases in body mass index,§§§§ a risk factor for both serious COVID-19 illness and diabetes."

    and "Although this study can provide information on the risk for diabetes following SARS-CoV-2 infection, additional data are needed to understand underlying pathogenic mechanisms, either those caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection itself or resulting from treatments, and whether a COVID-19–associated diabetes diagnosis is transient or leads to a chronic condition."

    The NYT article though: "The finding underscores the importance of vaccinating all eligible children against Covid, she added..."

    I am sorry I am sensitive to the subject vaccination of kids.

    There is an observed association. Nothing more and nothing less. And yes it has to be observed further.
    Firstly the mechanism of how SARS-Cov-2 could cause diabetes has to be determined and THEN the mechanism of how a particular vaccine could be beneficial at kids.
    And only then a vaccine recommendation against it can be issued.

    The NYT article puts pressure on parents to get their kids vaccinated using completely new types of vaccines.
     
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  19. Palladin

    Palladin MDL Senior Member

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  20. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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