As being said. Science knows other means. In that case hypotheses / theory. Proof is no superlative like if it's absent you can forget anything else. Think about where proof really plays a role at your daily matters and anyway what do you consider as 'good' and 'right' in your life and you live that way. No. There cannot be proof ≠ ignorant speculation. The big bang theory belongs exactly to the same quality of scientific 'knowledge'. It's a theory, nothing more. You have to evaluate what speaks for the lab leak hypotheses and what for the zoonosis origin. And then compare... And other means are statistical significance / probability and correlation. (At medical studies). There is also never a word about 'proof', for instance: "Deliver proof that substance x works or does this or that!". Anyway that's the way science deals with 'result' and concludes. You falsify H0 which is saying there is no difference between 2 groups. (Between the group / population that has applied the thing to be tested and the control group / population).
"Fortune Erin Prater 31 Mar 23 ‘Everyone is kind of tired and has given up’ on COVID. But this new variant is ‘one to watch,’ the WHOsays. XBB.1.16, dubbed “Arcturus” by variant trackers, is very similar to U.S. dominant “Kraken” XBB.1.5—the most transmissible COVID variant yet." Pat Fisher on Twitter
Covid vaccination no longer recommended: Swiss doctors are now liable for side effects https://exxpress.at/covid-impfung-nicht-mehr-empfohlen-schweizer-aerzte-haften-fuer-nebenwirkungen/
It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings... https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...astewater-Implications-for-public-health.aspx https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)02796-3/fulltext Findings Although reported COVID-19 deaths between Jan 1, 2020, and Dec 31, 2021, totalled 5·94 million worldwide, we estimate that 18·2 million (95% uncertainty interval 17·1–19·6) people died worldwide because of the COVID-19 pandemic (as measured by excess mortality) over that period. The global all-age rate of excess mortality due to the COVID-19 pandemic was 120·3 deaths (113·1–129·3) per 100 000 of the population, and excess mortality rate exceeded 300 deaths per 100 000 of the population in 21 countries. The number of excess deaths due to COVID-19 was largest in the regions of south Asia, north Africa and the Middle East, and eastern Europe. At the country level, the highest numbers of cumulative excess deaths due to COVID-19 were estimated in India (4·07 million [3·71–4·36]), the USA (1·13 million [1·08–1·18]), Russia (1·07 million [1·06–1·08]), Mexico (798 000 [741 000–867 000]), Brazil (792 000 [730 000–847 000]), Indonesia (736 000 [594 000–955 000]), and Pakistan (664 000 [498 000–847 000]). Among these countries, the excess mortality rate was highest in Russia (374·6 deaths [369·7–378·4] per 100 000) and Mexico (325·1 [301·6–353·3] per 100 000), and was similar in Brazil (186·9 [172·2–199·8] per 100 000) and the USA (179·3 [170·7–187·5] per 100 000). Interpretation The full impact of the pandemic has been much greater than what is indicated by reported deaths due to COVID-19 alone. Strengthening death registration systems around the world, long understood to be crucial to global public health strategy, is necessary for improved monitoring of this pandemic and future pandemics. In addition, further research is warranted to help distinguish the proportion of excess mortality that was directly caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection and the changes in causes of death as an indirect consequence of the pandemic.
'..due to COVID'...also includes due to the measures applied 'against' it and highly probably due to gain of function research!!! 'indirect consequence' AKA collateral damage. There is far more damage created besides of fatalities. I think about psychological and education related issues at kids at first place. Kids have been locked in and forced to wear a mask and to get vaccinated, even though it was clear at the very beginning that mask wearing does not work there, they handle COVID best and the vaccine safety data from kids were most insufficient! They will suffer from that crime a long time! It never should be over until all details are clarified. I am not sure what caused more harm. The virus itself OR the applied 'measures'. Either way...the very cause of the pandemic is man made, evidences are getting more. Recently the US senate report concluded that the pandemic most likely came from a lab leak China 'began developing two Covid vaccines' before official outbreak (telegraph.co.uk) https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23780776-mwg-fdr-document-04-16-23 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23780771-mwg-executive-summary-april-16-2023 Code: Ten findings from the US Senate report By Sarah Knapton 1. China was creating vaccines early - and one of the creators has mysteriously died 2. WIV might have been selling lab animals for human consumption 3. A new start date for the pandemic - October 28 to November 10, 2019 when cases of mystery illness rocket, noticed by US diplomats 4. WIV filed 12 patents to improve biosecurity including new door seals and ventilation in six months before pandemic 5. WIV scientists were forced to attend mandatory biosecurity training on November 19, 2019 6. Wuhan officials carried out an emergency airport drill on September 18, 2019 to identify passengers infected with novel coronavirus 7. Social media reports show outbreaks of Covid-like illness near Wuhan animal experiment campuses in December 2019 8. Pandemic might have been started by two spillover events two weeks apart 9. WIV had collected 20,000 bat samples by 2019 10. Scientists were working with centrifuges that could have sprayed virus into the air What's new to me is point 10. This argument would (if being true) 'invalidate' all other arguments speaking about a Wuhan market origin! The lab is very close to the market, the virus can survive that and arrive there being fully virulent.
Yen, whatever one's politics, if one is to contain the epidemic - there has to be isolation... Measures were ESSENTIAL when the virus was a serious serial killer!!! Mercifully, we have the internet and we could help our kids, so it wasn't a complete loss...Be fair! You got the right-wingers, conspiracy theorists' talking points down quite nicely... But it's pretty empty of any real content, hence it is possible to talk about it in such an abstract manner... Style over substance... One of my posts above yours, a scientist, a specialist, is somebody whose word on this subject I shall take with a lot more weight than yours, no offense intended! He is clearly stating that the likelihood of it is low and that the jump from animals to Humans is way more likely... I suggest you read such studies, too...
Yes but the issues are pertinent and pressing - when another pandemic comes - what are we to do and how do we do it? Yen and all who are alarmed by how this was done have every good reason to be alarmed and outraged, worried beyond words (decisions were made non-democratically, taking away the Parliaments' [around the world] authority into the hands of very few people around the top people in a country, which decisions benefited the pharma industry and gov's friend's without scrutiny, indebting the Public/taxpayers up to their eyeballs...) - given the anti-democratic elements of this sorry saga! But I would be damned if I will ever become a "useful tool/fool" for the anti-democratic, heavily right-wing elements, whatever their narrative - I shall never get in bed with them!!! Rather, I will always look for a rational, interest-based analysis, which would lead to class issues, if anything similar came about...
1- So theres still no evidence that long covid exists ............ every thing reported could easily fall into the catagorys psychosomatic / hypocondriac / fairy .......... or lazy bastard / free holidays 2 - https://time.com/6271806/psychedelics-long-covid-treatment/
It's nothing more then a learning process for (all?) people, call it crazy? It's not so crazy anyway... People in the future might see a virus come?! Then the people are prepared or something? That's OK... I can't say for sure what the problem on all this is, maybe just say as it is?(excuse my french) Most people would not like this? When people can't go to a funeral etc...You think this is normal behaviour in a "normal" society? There's when i say it's "old news" and nothing more then a (created)hoax?! It's not what the media etc you like to believe...Those people do that every day the way they like... ps: I wash my hands each day couple times, not for 30 sec...And still you can give me a hand or kiss me..It's good bacteria Sorry to interrupt in a so called serious discussion
nvm the climatcrisis Call it a cow they milk...People can go on on this for hours... It's easy to see, bu then again what you can do about it? Here in the Netherlands? Oh my people...
I could go on over those matters for hours...Stupid of me? Right? ps: Smoking is bad for you, that's for sure... Specially for the (new) little people...Why they come with all this now all of a sudden? Why harrash (my) kind of people with all the nonsense...It's not really funny anymore...But then again...who cares... Pls keep on-topic
theirs 8 billion people on the planet now 75% of the worlds population now live in huge metropolitan cities like sardines in a can.... the contamination is galore .....i have a feeling the next big outbreak is going to have our number....covid was just taste of whats to come.....so you experts keep thinking it was all a hoax and a money grab....
Long Covid non existent?!? Oh, FFS!!! Millions upon millions of people in their prime, even people who were having high-powered and highly paid jobs but can't go back to them - they are all "faking"... More like you trying to position yourselves as "thinkers" - YOU are faking it, in your ignorance and arrogance... We know the virus attacks the brain, kidneys, heart and so on... Somebody should tell my "quarter-brother" (we're not blood-related) who had it and ended up with only 40% lung capacity that he is just faking it when he can't breathe, can't get up a couple of flights of stairs... One has to be a right old looney to post that garbage! But go on, tell each other s**tty stories... Comforting... Yen posted links showing clearly this is a rubbish "theory". I posted links to studies showing it's way too real to wish it upon anyone... But OK, talk bALL-lox all day long and feel "out of this world"... because your (wishful) thinking is "out of this world" and deffo not "of this world"...
Dear gorski poppins , You claim that theres no such thing as psychosomatic ? You claim thatr theres no such thing as hypochondriac ? You claim that theres no such thing as fairys ? You claim that i dont exist ? You claim that people dont like free holidays ? You claim that theres no such thing as PROOF ?
It's always the same 'issue' with the argument to claim for a 'proof' that something does exist! There is an observable phenomenon FIRST before 'something' can get to an 'existence' at all. The observation:"Some individuals are suffering a longer time (from symptoms) after they have been tested positive for SARS-COV-2" THEN the phenomenon gets a name: (long COVID) So to deny the existence of long covid makes no sense at all. It is a human definition of an observable phenomenon. The job of science now is to figure the relations and correlation. One scientific term used for 'long COVID' is PASC btw. (Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19) If you look now at scientific publications you find more and more research. One of an early fundamental research about was the finding that the S1 protein of the virus persisted up to 15 months! Frontiers | Persistence of SARS CoV-2 S1 Protein in CD16+ Monocytes in Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC) up to 15 Months Post-Infection (frontiersin.org) Also the entire S protein persists: Persistent Circulating Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Spike Is Associated With Post-acute Coronavirus Disease 2019 Sequelae | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic (oup.com) Then the finding that S1 crosses blood-brain barrier in mice: The S1 protein of SARS-CoV-2 crosses the blood–brain barrier in mice | Nature Neuroscience And a very recent study: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Accumulation in the Skull-Meninges-Brain Axis: Potential Implications for Long-Term Neurological Complications in post-COVID-19 | bioRxiv Then we can conclude further... The mRNA vaccines make the entire S protein as well. So a cause for PASC (long COVID) can be the vaccines themselves! By that the term 'long COVID' is losing more and more of its original meaning. It has a second cause besides of the viral infection! So the point of discussion is not the existence of 'long COVID' it's about the cause and preconditions why some have it / get it and why many not!
' Seriously ' ? A scientist ........... takeing part in a pseudoscientific discussion .......... about science ........... says that science doesnt prove anything ?!?!? ( Again ) Sweetheart that goes in both directions ? If science doesnt prove anything for me ........... then it doesnt prove anything for you either = You are talking pseudointellectual crap . After looking at all .......... subective ? ...... claims of ' Long covid ' ......... and then weeding out all the s**t ............ baseless s**t ........... psychosomatic effects , hypochondria , lazyness , confusion ............... whats left over ? Proven cases with proven effects and proven causes ? Or links or indications .......... other than subjective ones . Without proof science doesnt work . Science IS proof .