Two things: It's unclear as of now but it seems you can catch it twice. Virus can mutate. So, second and third wave could be just as bad if not worse.
One thing: the Sars-cov-2 is like any other from the corona family and it's disease like as agressive as a bad flu with its particular complications nothing a few anticoagulants and other common flu remedies can cure.
Ahem... Nothing is black and white in any of this... Here is another "complication": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/26/obesity-increases-risk-of-covid-19-death-by-48-study-finds "...vaccine developers should look at the data from their clinical trials for the obesity effect, even where they have an overall benefit. “They might just then have to consider this and do some testing in the vaccine to get it to work better for obese people.” The hardship caused by lockdowns and loss of income for people around the world is also increasing the risk of people becoming obese, say the authors. “We’re not only at home more and experience more stress due to the pandemic, but we’re also not visiting the grocery store as often, which means the demand for highly processed junk foods and sugary beverages that are less expensive and more shelf-stable has increased,” Popkin said. “These cheap, highly processed foods are high in sugar, sodium and saturated fat and laden with highly refined carbohydrates, which all increase the risk of not only excess weight gain but also key non-communicable diseases.”"
I want to say that neither the lockdown nor wearing masks had any influence on the pandemia. The first wave was already over when we did the lockdown. What happened was unavoidable and at some regions very bad due to local conditions (medical capacities) But it is by far not that bad as the influenza 2017/18. In other words the major damage of COVID-19 comes from political decisions. There is no scientific forum, there is one institute that advises the govt. When trying to comprehend their measures during the progress of the pandemia you can notice that there were a lot of inconsistencies. They cannot admit that they are wrong concerning categorisation of COVID-19. COVID-19 is a wave of infection with a new beta coronavirus humankind has to deal with. Corona viruses are known and nothing special. Waves of infections with viruses will happen all the time. At some seasons harder at some seasons weaker. COVID-19 could have been a bad killer virus. But now having more data it's not. It is no pandemia per se. The media, human fear and unreason is responsible that COVID-19 became what it is.
@Reasons for political measures that people might missunderstand ---- > Going back to school prevents kids causing trouble / loosing faith in law and order / rioting ...... going back to work prevents the economy and logistics crashing ...... and prevents people causing trouble / loosing faith in law and order / rioting
At this thread and the general situation ---- > The situation is being shamelessly exploited by maniacs / nazis / vested interests / political partys ..... as we saw when the ' reichsburger ' stormed the german reichstag . Some moron somewhere has read ' The idiots book of revolution - How to cause a revolution ' ...... and missunderstood it ........ the ' thinking ' being that if the population mobilises it could be exploited to topple the government ...... and then the maniacs ' think ' that they can take over and resurect the third reich . = a very delicate situation ...... where the population has a choice ...... = either accept a few measures that might be hard for moronic egoists to acept or ? ...... chaos ? ........ MASS chaos ? ...... hey cool !!! lets have a french revolution and burn a few people ? ........ chop their heads off ?
No, of course not! I am neither a 'Reichsbürger' nor another anti-democratic party adherent. Those are 'Trittbrettfahrer' and a shame for the entire demonstrations and for the people who have valid objections on current corona politics. I wasn't in Berlin, but do agree with 'ordinary' people there. You can read my posts at this thread and how I 'adjusted' my opinion due to changing facts and more right data. (Three major errors: 1. Infections were not related to the amount of tests and 2. There is no differentiation: Died being corona positive / died by corona. Only autopsy would clarify that. And third: The error rate of the PCR test is not considered.. The more you test the more false positives you get...and finally corona positive does NOT mean sick by corona!) Although I am still interested in vaccine development I came to the conclusion that a mass vaccination against COVID-19 is not indicated and should not be the primary goal. One reason for it is that it suggests being 'the' end of something what actually never had become...a pandemia...and proper testing takes years! It seems COVID-19 behaves like other corona viruses....their mutations are getting milder...humankind 'gets used to'... https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/mildere-coronavirus-infektionen-durch-mutation-119703/
Most people don't realize the ultimate goal is the vaccine. The perpetrators ultimate goal is to sell it to the whole planet and enforce vaccination! Incredibly, lots of people are claiming, begging for a vaccine to get out of their home jail. I hate human mega-arrogance and others stupidity.
The first wave is still "on". Not only Sweden but also Amazonian main city, did not enforce anything - and look what happened to them... A wee bit more scientific reasoning and precise usage of terminology would be good here... Nonsense, look at the South Korean saldo and compare with the UK's saldo... Moreover, look at poor Indian state of Kerala's saldo and compare with the UK, for instance. Complete rubbish of an "argument"!!!! Really, Yen... You have no leg to stand on!!! I would have thought that it depends whom you ask. But more importantly: by which measures? What will you say here: "Oh, we should not be doing all this because not enough people are dying for my liking?" Jesus, man... What one institute? There is one government in the world? Come again? (What the...???) Yes, agreed, of course, as we have all laughed our heads off at the UK gov's idiotic confusion and completely contradictory and inconsistent "advice" - but surely that can not be a grounding for "let's give up all the measures we know work in saving lives, in having fewer cases" - while all the time we are working on drugs and vaccines... Come again? How many people have to die before you would invoke all the measures we can put to good use? Have you been smoking pot heavily of late or something much harder? You have mentioned your empathetic capacity - but WTF is this?!? I fear @Yen's account has been compromised - run for your lives, this is no longer the safe forum it used to be... P.S. Who kidnapped Yen? WTH happened here? Anyone knows?
Great! Love this. You did well as a good non-corrupted scientist should do. Bingo! Of course, it's an earthling virus, not an alien extraterrestrial one.
Face shields, masks with valves ineffective against COVID-19 spread: study https://phys.org/news/2020-09-shields-masks-valves-ineffective-covid-.html
To find out 'who' has dealt with COVID-19 at best by political decisions / administration you would have to have absolutely the same conditions. (Population density, culture, paths of infection / groups of 'super spreaders' etc etc).... Each infection of a countries' citizens has unique factors and therefore an own dynamic. Besides of that how the statistical data are obtained does vary. Testing rate is different. Medical capacities are different. This means some countries were/are just more lucky than others. Administrative decisions such as lockdown had only a minor influence on the progress. Some nations had no lockdown at all.. I did a mistake here. I jumped from purely Germany related conditions to general and did not point that out. I mean here in Germany there is only the incompetent RKI (Robert Koch Institute) that advises the govt what to do. I wish we'd have a forum with different experts from different universities that would advise the govt. That is a very good question. It implies that there would have been someone who did have a rational answer?!? Humankind has to deal with waves of infections. Influenza, corona......that's natural and won't stop. At COVID-19 things happened the way that it 'triggered' a pandemia. At other waves of infections it did not (FLU 17/18). Do you think the difference is Reason? Or rational decision? 'Who' decided? One thing comes to another....media, certain images, human fear, virologists such as Drosten who are spreading panic, a still unvalidated PCR test released by him to underline the pandemia. Images from China, conspiracy theories that they could have released the virus from a lab....etc etc... The next wave of another virus will trigger a pandemia or not. But your question: "How many people have to die before you would invoke all the measures we can put to good use?" will also play no role.....since nobody will be here to have a rational answer on that. It is dominated by fear cycle. Once you are in it you do anything that could prevent to spread the infection. You sacrifice human rights and freedom for it. You kill economy, you create medical capacities by delaying other surgeries, you lock up people and families, you cut education / school / university. You kill any cultural and social encounters, no arts, no concert, no folk festivals...no elderly people that can meet their family, no funeral where you can say goodbye to your beloved grandfamily... The long term effects and damage of political corona rules are unimaginable! As already mentioned. I said Germany did it right at the beginning (from what we could know that time). But now there is no reason for corona rules anymore. They are not justifiable anymore. They are senseless and self-destructive. I am still original. I learned from new data, compared to others who did not learn... I am upset about the RKI still presenting ridiculous data and I am upset that the major media still provides an image about COVID-19 which is simply not true! Besides of that the corona story seems to follow to an 'end' where 'we' have beaten it.......mass vaccination. When you insist on proper testing the time when you can release the vaccine COVID-19 will be 'integrated' by mutations and the vaccine will be obsolete. Any pre-release of a vaccine by shorten the process of approval comes with a risk which is -compared to what COVID-19 really IS- by far too high! COVID-19 is not dangerous enough that we would need vaccination at any costs.
Nonsense! It was the same virus, the same measures were open to all govs, some chose to ignore them, some did the right thing, hence the huge difference in infected people and especially Covid-caused deaths! Aha, some "capacity" Kerala has - and yet... You really should go back to the drawing board on this... Some had more rational answer to it than others (South Korea v. Trump, Bolsonaro, BoJo etc.). Why is it so difficult for a person who says he is empathetic? Sure, some are worse than others and we have choices, as to how we are going to deal with it - see the image attached... Well, look at the evidence. FCOL! The fact we - as Humanity, generally speaking - did not act well enough in the previous instance does not invalidate the fact that this time around some DID get their act together and they DID the RIGHT and not the expedient thing!!! WE CAN LEARN!!!! We are NOT animals! What's the problem, what's so bad about that?!? Oh, please - so, the fact that some conspiraloons exist is now invalidating humane, caring, life-saving policies? Whatever next: we're never going to space again because there are some who do not believe we went to the Moon, that it was all staged, so better not give them any more grounds for such "theories" and then they will die off. And when they die - we can then go back to space again? Seriously? Yen, I am puzzled and worried about you now... I have never seen you come up with such utter nonsense of an "argument" before.... WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!? Have all your good sense deserted you completely? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, c'mon, man, get your s&*& together, get rational... Some govs are already preparing for it, starting with Germany. Why? Well, we know viruses mutate. This one has already mutated, so what's your point? By definition it can become even deadlier either for all or at least for some sections of the population. Should we sacrifice them all? Are we now debased to animals suddenly, therefore "deserving" of "herd immunity" as the only option - have we all lost our minds if this becomes the norm/public health policy?!? I mean, you are claiming you are "empathetic" but WTF is that? This is contempt, plain and simple, built into your "would-be-public-health-policy", which would cost many lives absolutely needlessly! I don't know about you but I do not want to experiment either on myself or on my partner or on my kids or my family or my friends or indeed ANYONE, just to find out if I am susceptible to it and if it will kill me or any of them - indeed any Human being! This morning on BBC Radio 4 an expert told us that in the UK we know of 8 cases of young kids who died positive for C-19. Four of them died of C-19 and four of other underlining conditions. Please, formulate your public health policy so I can understand it. Whom would you put in harms way, as a doctor who vowed not to do harm? Please, no BS, straight up. I really want to know. No jargon. straight up - your public health policy would be...???!!!??? Actually, you preserve the very basic Human Right - to live and healthily so! Without that one - you can forget about your "mental escapades" that follow... Without Humans, there is no economy. Hello! You're swapping cause and effect, yet again... Funny this: we all had to pay when bankers and financiers almost brought the system down - it was the public money that saved their arses - but we can't do it now, when we want to save ourselves? FFS, man, put your thinking cap on.... We can rebuilt economy. Besides, it is irrational as it is. Nature is starting to recover in some places, where lock-down is more serious... One can see the difference quite clearly. We could study that part, as well - maybe we could come up with some valuable lessons, firstly not to mess with it idiotically, to our own detriment... I bet every last uneducated and illiterate peasant now knows not to mess with bat sh*t needlessly, to start with... You really are off your rocker, man... Yes, priorities right now are rather obvious - but you have it all mixed up: some govs were prepared, some did not and then these things were much worse than in some other parts of the word. This morning, on that BBC4 Radio talk show, the experts were reminding us that because of government's inability to think strategically the equipment etc. was not procured in time and lives were lost, from doctors and nurses and other front line workers onward!!! The situation in the USofA, Brazil and elsewhere was basically the same. DO NOT EVEN TRY TO SWAP CAUSE AND EFFECT AGAIN, as it is do disingenuous and self-defeating, utterly irrational!!!! Nosense, totally emotional, yet again. Are we sure this is really our Yen writing? Jesus Marx wept, I can't recognise you, man... They have had to change for a while, yes. You know, we have Science, Technology, Medicine, we Humans are creative, we can learn, invent, so yes, rationally, we are buying time for those guys to come up with medicine, vaccines and then we'll see what to do next. After all, it is the Public paying for it, it is OUR MONEY, so it should be managed TO OUR ADVANTAGE, NOT to the advantage of billionaires and profit making, for their interests, while they are safely bunkered up... Is this so difficult to see, Yen?!? Yet again: nonsense! Last night there was an open air concert here, with musicians in hot air balloons, creating music for all below and it was done safely. Not to mention online and other possibilities we are coming up now. You have heard of IT, Yen? In the UK police have to break up illegal raves where people are wilfully putting us all in a rather idiotic situation needlessly, just because they can't be bothered to think of wither themselves or others - so we have more cities in dire situation and imposed lock-downs... Is that your idea of how things should be done? Worth risking many lives?!? I mean, your compass is really screwed, man... Again, this is a caricature of what is the actual case - I mean, this is really getting too emotional even for a conspiraloon... Seriously!? It was the un-imposed quarantine, lock-down measures that caused so many sudden deaths, for instance, in Manaus, where the undertakes couldn't cope and mass graves were dug out, no funerals occurred because their authorities reacted badly, did not want to listen to enlightened experts and just like you now - threw caution to the wind and... caused untold suffering!!! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, MAN, GET YOUR STORY RIGHT!!! Oh but they are both imagined and imaginable. They have been imagined by enlightened experts (not listened to by many govs) and they SAVED LIVES, as ENLIGHTENED PUBLIC HEALTH POLICIES!!!! They stand and they will stand, I hope... Quite the opposite! Everything here is upside-down, Yen! You could not be more wrong! Your dealing with microbes, mice and lab rats is NOT the same thing, snap out of it, man... These measures are not only sensible, they are necessary to save lives! Seriously, I thank Heavens that this impersonator of Yen is NOT in charge of Public Health Policy Team of any kind, as he is not kind to his own kind... I doubt that. I am not sure this is really you and I am sure you did not "learn" - this is "unlearning", this is "deteriorating". Learning improves, enlightens. This does not show any improvement on the previous stance here exhibited. You lost the plot, I fear! Right, see USofA, Brazil, India, etc. etc. You are just dead wrong on these issues! You are choosing to ignore facts, eyes wide shut! Just one option. The other is drugs/medicines... (Hold on a sec, a few paragraphs earlier you conveniently forgot that - as I reminded you of it, see above - and then you drew very wrong conclusions out of that convenient "little, white lie"...) You do not know that! But you are now right - viruses do mutate. However, a little earlier you pretended you do not know that, you couldn't remember, you appeared oblivious to the fact we may have another wave which might be deadlier. So, which one is it: do we account for it or do we ignore it? You can't have it both ways, Yen... I know it's "convenient" for your "argument" but this is just SOOOO NOT SERIOUS!!! I agree! Full stop. Wholeheartedly! But I take a completely different course of action than this Yen impostor.... We should do both vaccines and drugs CAREFULLY! You know, unlike what they did with Thalidomide! And you defended those guys, when they did not test it properly and yet gave it away to pregnant mothers to sleep better etc. Well, surprise! YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!! I say, if bankers were "worthy" of our money in HUGE quantities, then if we decide we are worthy of our own money, Yen - I'm all in!!!! Let's save lives, as many as we can, while scientists are working on our directed response to it! Nothing less would do - not without killing many more people! Agreed?
When you have an ongoing wave, a 'pandemia' you are forced to make decisions. There is not much time to get rational. Fear plays a major role. Also political power, better said fear to lose it. When you are looking back what each nation did or when I have a look how differently politicians met their decisions (even here in Germany at the different federal states)...and how inconsistent they were during progress I cannot speak of sovereign handling of the pandemia. I still have to speak of luck and coincidence. Some had more and some not. To assign the statistics and success to political decisions is unreasonable! You can make best political decisions, but if you are out of luck some super spreaders meet a huge bunch of people and the laws of epidemiology are doing their works.! The laws of epidemiology enforces what happens with your nation. People should get that it's not politics that is responsible for the statistical differences of nation, it is epidemiology and the condition of medical capacities! There are 2 countermeasures which come with evidence: Social distancing and disinfection / washing of 'human contact surfaces' anything else is speculative! There are many opinions about this and that measure has prevented this and that. But it is assumption alone. To paint a particular political success one one's flag by saying without that measure it would have been far worse is without any evidence. We have 1200 covid-19 positive every day. No deaths since weeks. Does this still justify to forbid any concerts? No cinema, no theater. No club, no disco? Do you know artists or musicians? Have you ask them how they feel about culture/arts? Many small clubs / theaters will not survive that! Many 'independent' arts away from mainstream will not survive. Does it still justify to force people wearing masks here in Germany? Does it justify any corona restriction ATM? No it does not. This is my opinion and it makes me upset that people still think corona is the way that we have to do it. Of course. But politicians should stop their self-justifying attitudes and they should stop selling measures which are doubtful and without evidence that they could have helped in a way. They think they have understood cause and effect of their political decisions on corona. But in fact they went through an emotional up and down always having in mind: "Draconian measures causes draconian successes"... NO. Sometimes I have to revert restrictions and to admit that overestimation of a virus causes damage as well... Finally everybody of us has an imagination of what COVID-19 is. This image is not much based on a variety of different sources. Not to speak of scientific POVs. The ordinary citizen gets the image from the mainstream media and from the self-justifying politicians...and here in Germany it is based on data of one institute. No wonder other scientists with good reputations stand up now and try to inform the people using corrected data and more infos about COVID-19. Most of all they try to have focus on the matter without any psychological issues such as unreasonable panic and overstatements. And sorry to say..COVID-19 is 'just' another wave of infection comparable to a severe flu wave..nothing more and nothing less. It is no 'war' against a mighty enemy as Macron wanted to have...
Right, except some govs have done the right thing, they obviously had enough time to stop and think, then decide on the strategy and then implement it vehemently, with much greater success than some other govs... Their public health policies worked in terms of saving lives, esp the vulnerable lives and my hat goes down to them! So, no, there is nothing inevitable about it, nothing that can not be better than what you are proposing now... Ergo, speak in your own name, please...