@Yen very good this post of yours thanks for the brilliant elucidation of the facts that has afflicted the whole world
Put it in simpler words: - Humans throughout it's existence on this planet has always dealt with illnesses, and viruses of course. - Never ever before the entire planet was put in lockdown. - Never ever before forced use of masks which suffocate people. - And we survived and thrive. - On top of all this, we have institutionalized modern medicine, specialized herbs and non mainstream chemicals (chlorine dioxide) to deal with any pathogen.
I just want to add. What I wrote is related to Germany. Each nation is different due to factors I have mentioned already. But IMHO if one wants to make an opinion about a certain nation (maybe the own) progresses reflected in statistics should be related to applied measures. By that one can recognize what was useful and should be kept as being useful in mind, that's all. Also research on this locally how the virus spread is important. Generally it seems to turn out that to interrupt an infection chain 'at the end' (there where the virus would jump from individual to individual) is most useful, though.
How on Earth can there be an ESSENTIAL difference between Scandinavian countries?!? The differences there, though, are stark, depending on the public health policy taken. Even the infamous Swedish architect has now given up on his "baby" - publicly... Even he would now try to save as many lives as possible if knew now what he didn't back then, having opened up to learning from such horrible, deadly mistakes, as was his "strategy"... But many people here are NOT so open to learning from such horrible, deadly mistakes, as was his "strategy"... Because of a "conspiracy"... to save lives and not produce surplus value for billionaires and millionaires... Swell!!! @Yen, it would have been a fair question, had I not agreed that there are legitimate Qs about who makes the policy, how, under which conditions, how it can be improved, so old and vulnerable people are not unduly affected etc. But I have said openly that these are good Qs, so your "complaint" is not a valid one, knocking on an open door. The main issue being: do NOT jumble it all up and try to talk/think about all of them at the same time, as most people, you included, can not make the good, sound conclusions from such an attempt, as I demonstrated heftily in this discussion, given the fact all of such "contributions" openly and wildly evade any such serious problems quite mercilessly....
My 'complaint' was actually a defence. I do not feed a 'dogma' nor do I follow 'a leader'...'unscientifically'... I just wanted to make clear that if you take a certain statistic as reason for a measure then you should use that statistic again to have a look if it had an influence. This is common sense. By restrictions you 'moderate' the pandemia, the level of endemic infection. ATM we have only one way, though: self-recovery. The major reason to moderate the pandemia is to keep R below 1 AND too take care that the medical capacities get never exhausted. This is BTW the official announced goal that had been announced by our govt to justify their actions. So when I spot a measure, AKA lockdown Germany and neither the capacities where in danger at all at any time (not before and not after) and R was already below 1 then I must conclude that the lockdown was useless. This is no dogma.
You changed your position after listening to a "guru" who can't think for love or money - lets be clear about it. Your "strategy" is his strategy. And it is DEAD WRONG! Because it would cost tons of lives needlessly! End of...
Business Insider: Coronavirus symptom range may be explained by bradykinin storm theory - Business Insider. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-symptoms-supercomputer-theory-bradykinin-storm-2020-9
Scientific evidence about wearing masks Los cubrebocas no previenen el contagio y sí provocan daño. Un metaestudio de mayo de 2020 sobre la influenza pandémica publicado por los CDC de EE. UU. encontró que las mascarillas no tenían ningún efecto, ni como equipo de protección personal ni como control de fuente. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article Una revisión de julio de 2020 del Centro de Oxford para la Medicina Basada en Evidencia encontró que no hay evidencia de la efectividad de las máscaras de tela contra la infección o transmisión de virus. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/ Un estudio de COVID-19 entre países realizado por la Universidad de East Anglia encontró que el requisito de una máscara no era beneficioso e incluso podría aumentar el riesgo de infección. (Fuente pdf) me lo pueden pedir Una revisión de abril de 2020 realizada por dos profesores estadounidenses en enfermedades respiratorias e infecciosas de la Universidad de Illinois concluyó que las mascarillas no tienen ningún efecto en la vida cotidiana, ni como autoprotección ni para proteger a terceros (el llamado control de fuente). https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...ntary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data Un artículo en el New England Journal of Medicine de mayo de 2020 llegó a la conclusión de que las mascarillas faciales de tela ofrecen poca o ninguna protección en la vida cotidiana. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372 Una revisión de abril de 2020 de la Escuela de Medicina de Norwich (preimpresión) encontró que «la evidencia no es lo suficientemente sólida para respaldar el uso generalizado de mascarillas»; pero respalda el uso de mascarillas por parte de «individuos particularmente vulnerables cuando se encuentran en situaciones transitorias de mayor riesgo». https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01.20049528v1 Un estudio de julio de 2020 realizado por investigadores japoneses descubrió que las máscaras de tela «ofrecen cero protección contra el coronavirus» debido a su gran tamaño de poro y, en general, su mal ajuste. http://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/13523664 Un estudio de 2015 en el British Medical Journal BMJ Open encontró que las máscaras de tela fueron atravesadas por el 97% de las partículas y pueden aumentar el riesgo de infección al retener la humedad o el uso repetido. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 La OMS admitió a la BBC que su actualización de la política de máscaras de junio de 2020 no se debió a nuevas pruebas sino a un «presiones políticas»: «Varias fuentes nos habían dicho que el comité de la OMS que revisaba las pruebas no había respaldado las máscaras, pero las recomendaron debido al cabildeo político». «Este punto se le planteó a la OMS, quien no lo negó”. (Dr. Cohen, BBC Medical Correspondent)
Pointless assumption. Out of the blue. You simply ignore the arguments I have pointed out. I have reasoned them carefully. You have an opinion about somebody, declare him as a 'guru' and create an imaginary dogma he seemingly feeds. You do not consider that he's a professor and a reputable adviser at former subjects on epidemiology. He is not just somebody and he is not the only one with that POV. You use values to assume that things are getting worse. But you do not consider valid objections which are able to explain those values otherwise (error rate of tests proportionality to test rate). And by doing all that you speak of unscientific behaviour...your dogma is obviously draconian measures result to draconian successes. Without delivering statistics that would justify 'it'. IMHO you should ask yourself if you would be objectively able to spot an useless measure at all. And concerning the Swedish way. Yes they had a huge problem at the beginning. They lost many elderly people in retirement homes. But there is a reason for it. The personal there is mostly foreign. It was an administrative problem due to language at first place. If you know people there you'd know that reason as well. The major difference in strategy is that the Swedish way does not moderate the pandemia that much as the others are doing. BTW 85% of the Swedish supports that way. By that they get ahead concerning natural immunisation. They also get ahead in statistics and death rate. That means if you want to have a look at the future have a look at Sweden. As long as we have self-recovery only to get immunity, there is no difference as long as every emergency patient can get anything that's needed. Asymptomatic progresses will occur there where they will. But there will be a difference IF another immunisation gets available. (Vaccination). I posted that drugs development in average takes 10-12 years. A short way would be 5 years to obtain enough safety /data and that one can be responsible for a public release. Concerning the new tech mRNA based vaccination it would be the first of that kind at all! Even though the research on it is very exciting and I observe the development with great interest I never would agree with a release of such next year. Austria has pre-ordered 6 Million doses and Germany already 52 million doses of the Oxford vaccine!!! Besides of that (as I mentioned) there are more and more data that the virus is weaken due to mutation. If things are going this way we soon will have to make a decision vaccination or not. And it will be highly likely that many people will be affected by side effects...hopefully they get not kept secret due to false pride and greed. And I hope that very young people (kids) and very old people with pre-illnesses have enough family members who do preserve them from that risk and do say NO! A vaccine that would be released next year cannot be that safe that it would justify a vaccination against SARSCoV-2 all the more because the virus is weaken naturally already.
And do you think this is right? (I know you don't. Lol) Don't you see a conspiracy vs people for big pharma doing big business in complicity with politicians? (I know you don't. Again lol) Vaccine will cost billions to people while putting them in danger with such Oxfords venom.
No. It's rather worrying. It costs tons of Euros (tax money) and actually you cannot know what you'll get for it or if it is still needed. Maybe they end the same way as the H1N1 doses did....they got burned due to expiration. What's alaming is that a vaccination is sold as the end of the pandemia, 'the saviour' AND you can clearly notice that others are jumping on the same bandwagon: There are more and more ads about other vaccinations! They use the created fear from corona to make people 'thinking' about vaccination. This affects pertussis vaccination and FLU. This worries me more than the entire corona pandemia. The people are held in an artificial cycle of fear by presenting an useless value (number of positive tests per day).....nations just as Israel are unable to deal with the pandemia, just applying a second lockdown without to know that it is probably again useless. They do not really make the efforts to figure which measures are helpful / have had an positive effect on the pandemia. It's unbelievable what's going on!....Inability where you go... If you would get a good and effective vaccination right now you would even have the very same amount of positives! A vaccination does not prevent that the virus gets into body. It only preserves you from sickness / symptoms. A positive is NOT suitable to say something about the sickness COVID-19!!! You need to count those who are getting SICK by it. And it are naturally 20% only!
@Yen, one word: Sweden. Your argument is DONE!!!! Here is another one from Bernie's Team: "In what could be considered negligent homicide, new revelations prove that Trump knew the whole time that COVID-19 was deadly and purposefully lied to the American people that the virus wasn’t that serious. Over 190,000 Americans are dead because of Trump’s failure to prepare or properly warn us about COVID-19. How many more have to die?"
Sweden and USA is different ..(Sweden consists of 70% of forest area, the US has big cities such as New York with weak medical capacities, Trump should have known that) Anyway... Trump himself has admitted that he's downplayed the corona pandemia. AFAIK he compared himself to Churchill and Roosevelt saying he wanted -with intent- to lie on the citizens to avoid panic. That is fatal, I agree. Besides of that he absolutely was not able to categorize COVID-19 that time, nobody could. I also had the opinion that the Swedish way is dared -that time- since nobody could categorize how it really turned out. I do not deny that the Swedish did make some fatal errors. I made the efforts to find the reasons for it. It happened mostly in retirement homes. Infected visitors and personal were responsible for that, not applying measures in time due to administrative and language issues. And those people belong to high risk groups which require special attention. I do not say by that that we haven't to protect special groups of people, but I'd say 'specific' measures -in time- are more effective than general ones such as lockdown. The same applies to Israel. They missed to apply effective measures in time and now they have to go for a second lockdown because it's too late. I wish them all the best and the lockdown helps, but what's for sure is that the 'side effects' will take place either way. The American victims are also because of the bad medical capacities and the politics on that. To 'warn' people would have had not much effects considering the bad conditions. The same applies to forest fires there where Trump is still a fool not recognizing that global warming is a major reason for it.
Alibi lama = guru "In what could be considered negligent homicide, new revelations prove that Trump knew the whole time that COVID-19 was deadly and purposefully lied to the American people that the virus wasn’t that serious. Over 190,000 Americans are dead because of Trump’s failure to prepare or properly warn us about COVID-19. How many more have to die?" What evil bulls**t ....... stupid people digging up irelevant s**t and twisting it for personal gain ...... WTF would have happened if trump had said .......... its B-A-D !!!! ........ mass panic ? Social colapse ? Riots ? People ' defending ' themsleves ? Every man for himself !!! ...... He did his job = Keep the population calm . And he gets critised for it !!! How low will people sink blaming all the problems in the world on him .
At cheep and nasty s**t ---- > International ALERT MESSAGE Of Health Professionals To Governments & Citizens Of The WORLD Who are they ? What are their qualifications ? Where is the evidence ? Why 25 pages !!! ? This is what its abouit ------ > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dZHqwBLt81BuVVT84rm2Ni0jTgnchx87/view = 25 pages of nothing . @ petitions = LOL
What would have happened if Trump had any real brain and decency/conscience? Proper, well prepared procedures, that Fauci instituted last time.... Many lives would have been saved, the public would have been properly educated and prepared, money could have been put to these objectives, not enriching the already ridiculously rich!!! The difference being Sweden v. NEIGHBOURS, virtually the same societies, no big difference. Except one: many more Covid related deaths in Sweden. Excess deaths. And we now now that long term problems could be terrible, too! This morning I was listening to a Uni prof. from a Tropical Medicine faculty who got infected. Six months on he is seriously messed up, can't walk a bit without having to rest, can't breath, can't think... He says many young people are affected too but not enough info in the public arena about these issues is aired and hence young people are harming their life chances.... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-kidney-disease-long-term-effects-coronavirus Just one of the possible examples, of a "mild", "inconsequential" illness: "Fears Covid may leave thousands in UK with severe kidney disease Experts warn the long-term effects of virus are causing an ‘epidemic in primary care’ Tens of thousands of people may require kidney dialysis or transplants because of coronavirus, according to experts who warn the long-term effects of Covid are causing an “epidemic in primary care”. Up to 90% of coronavirus patients admitted to hospital may still experience symptoms two to three months later – from breathlessness to joint pain, fatigue and chest pain – scientists told the Lords science and technology committee on Tuesday. Donal O’Donoghue, a consultant renal physician at Salford Royal NHS trust, said damage to the kidneys was of major concern. It is believed the virus may attack the organ directly, he said, while the kidneys could also be injured by body-wide inflammation caused by the virus. “Normally we see maybe 20% of people that go on to intensive care unit need to have a form of dialysis. During Covid it was up to 40% – and 85% of people had some degree of kidney injury,” he said. “No doubt that is happening out in the community as well, probably to a lesser extent.”" So, if you were to be"God" or "Guru" and make laws and formulate public health policies - who would you sacrifice on the altar of profit?
People, do you believe in those "scientific" articles? Science? Rather malscience in my opinion. Turns out the Sars-cov-2 can damage kidneys. Pff! Who really knows that the medications/therapy used are inflicting the damage (iatrogenic illness)? Next thing we will read is Sars-cov-2 has the power of subverting our cns and convert us into walking dead!
Now I have a question, a huge one. Is it really possible a deadly, super evil, lethal virus could one day evolve and hit us with all its force? I searched but couldn't find anything after 5 min. maybe I need more research, lol. Any references?