Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by luzea, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Bat.1

    Bat.1 MDL Expert

    Oct 18, 2014
    1,096
    1,271
    60
    Maybe him actually took de time and typed dis all out :g:

    One more time, let's clear the notions properly:

    "Maria Van Kerkhove, the World Health Organization's technical lead for coronavirus response, said during a media briefing in Geneva last week that "herd immunity" is typically discussed in the context of vaccinations -- not as a response to a pandemic.

    "Normally when we talk about herd immunity, we talk about how much of the population needs to be vaccinated to have immunity to the virus, to the pathogen, so that transmission can no longer take place or it's very difficult for a virus or a pathogen to transmit between people," Van Kerkhove said.

    "If we think about herd immunity in the natural sense of just letting a virus run, it's very dangerous," she said. "That means that many people are infected, many people will need hospitalizations and many people will die."


    I put it to you once again: scientists, sadly, are frequently NOT properly trained in either Logic or Public Health Policy, many are almost autistic, if not sociopathic and can't see Human Beings past the numbers for love or money. They are frequently the most dangerous people, with such tunnel vision!!!


    "Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another." I. Kant, "What is Enlightenment" in "Political writings" (1784) - the basis of Modernity...
     
  2. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Senior Member

    Nov 7, 2013
    399
    148
    10
    So ...... two things ...... either herd imunity through vacines or through letting it take its cource ....... BUT ..,.,... its not either or its somewhere in between ....... and ...... it seems to me to be clear to see that there's already a large part of the population that has some degree of imunity .....,.. otherwise the streets would be full of bodys :)
     
  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    Jesus!

    It is full of bodies or seriously ill even young and fit people, let alone older and people with preexisting illnesses!!! And it would be many more if "let it all hang out" attitude prevailed!!! THAT'S THE POINT YOU GENIUSES DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT!!!!

    In that case public health services like NHS would not have been able to cope. In fact, some of them are on a brink already, as I have written before, the nurses are planning of leaving in large numbers, they never saw so many people die on their watch, including their own colleagues, who were left without PPE and/or support - it's like wartime for them.... PTSD is a new term for you, I see....

    But don't let that worry you: since you are not seeing it, since it is not happening to you - it simply doesn't exist, sure... FCOL!!!! Autistic, are we?!?

    I have posted tons of posts with links!!! If I re-posted my post then I haven't felt the need to post the link yet again!!! But they are there! Always credited the source!!! CHECK IT!!! And even if I made a mistake, as I have written already - FCOL, it's dead simple to C&P a title into DuckDuckGO or some other search engine, so f-off!!! What do you think, that I am inventing the wheel?

    But I will tell you who here is posting BS trying to be "clever".... Oh, shoot.... I already did.... so many times it hurts...

    Never mind.... Go, regurgitate some more soft eugenics ideas....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    Bat, have you ever heard of PUNCTUATION?!? These signs: "" - do they mean anything to you?!? It's back to primary school for you, m8....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. Bat.1

    Bat.1 MDL Expert

    Oct 18, 2014
    1,096
    1,271
    60
    So Bat is FREEEEE to say whatever him wants without repercussion :) YEN might put up width Your BullShidt but promise Bat won't ;)

    So de Same Old Crap with My Posts getting deleted while Gorski keeps Running shis mouth:mad: WTF You get Alex to come back just to cover your ass ?

    So take Your Gay (I have nothing against udder Gays) Ass and shove your Gender Studies Degree Up It :D

    Gawd an Education is a Horrible thing to waste on an IDIOT :roflmao:

    Don't bother Banning Bat Mods, Bat Quit :mad: FUCQE Dis SH!T
     
  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,163
    12,696
    340
    There has to be no fight about posted sources. The thread is a public thread and anybody can read where exactly sources have been posted. :rolleyes:


    You again avoid to argue on the matter proper diagnostic. If there would be valid objections you cannot recognize them in your mind, they are always false per se. I mean what way of arguing is that?!
    The number of positive PCR tests is used to justify to release and to execute rules for the pandemic and that by suspending the constitution.

    The currently used PCR test has lab approval, but no approval for diagnostic.
    The reasons for it are:

    It is not standardized. Means depending on lab its way of processing varies, means you get different results. Different nations have different thresholds.
    It is not validated. Means it is uncertain if it repeats to the same result and the chosen DNA sequences were never zoned against other corona viruses.
    It comes with a natural error rate on positives which is 5000 every million. It is even higher when you test healthy people.

    Proper rules of diagnostic, every physician actually knows them and applies them. But here at the pandemic they are treated with contempt. People with positive tests are sent to quarantine because positive=illness.
    This is scientific dilettantism!

    To determine an illness there is anamnesis. A lab result is used to substantiate the assumption. It is never used to determine the illness alone and has to be used as medical tool (if it has got the approval for it). A test never determines the illness it is always the physician!

    You go to the doc, the doc makes the anamnesis, the doc uses different tools of diagnostic and the doc determines the illness and choses the right treatment. This is proper diagnostic!

    You can now find counterarguments against mine...or again waste your time drifting away to your same record.:)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    I'm afraid you are doing that, Yen. Wasting your time on very dubious interpretations of this phenomena, while numbers are going up and up, as we are learning of more and more horryfing aspects of this illness, that we might get it again, having had it, that all are possible victims, that it is not feasible to ring fence the vulnerable and so on and on...

    You are ignoring all this on dubious grounds, so pardon me if I am exasperated when I see such posts regurgitating numbers and not seeing Humanity....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,163
    12,696
    340
    @gorski
    It is about the proportionality of the means used. And how they are used.
    Your idea and concerns about victims is absolutely right, that's not the point.

    And it's about the effectivity of the means:
    Study: https://www.nber.org/
    https://www.aier.org/article/lockdo...nsmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/

    Do you know streptococcus pneumoniae?
    It's the bacterial agent that is mainly the reason for pneumonia.

    Here in Germany (as example) more than 500000 get ill every year, 35000 are dying.

    If you would now develop a test and would do the same (ab)use of testing and diagnostics and the same great amount of testing you would CREATE a 'pandemic' which is 4 times deadlier than COVID-19.

    We HAVE agents around us which are causing a far greater impact on mortality. Sad, but true.
    But now the numbers of COVID-19 are here that people can pick up something to distract and to have something to act out fears....

    We need means that put COVID-19 in a right direction to get a proper relation of the sickness. And we need to stay conform to proper science.
    We need to stop mass testing. We need to protect the vulnerable people and we need to isolate the virulent persons and to track infection paths (the paths of the virulent people).

    We need to 'integrate' COVID-19 so we can live with it the next months, years.
    We need to return to proper diagnostic. Somebody gets sick, goes to the doc. The doc uses an approved test as diagnostic means, determines COVID-19 and THEN isolates and reports the person.
    We need to care of each others and apply rules of proper hygiene. We need to take care of the vulnerable people.

    Unethical is to pick up something, distort it by abusing diagnostics and to do more harm on people caused by the measures (freedom, social life, psychological impacts, income, job, development of kids, educational system, delayed surgery, occupied resources at health system, battered economy)...while lots more are dying from other pathogens.

    Unnoticed by media, unreported and uncounted by numbers on dashboards.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    There is no "proportionality" in death and illness, man...

    You bought a libertarian poison wholesale, FCOL.

    Legitimate issues of caring for those in vulnerable positions is used as a smokescreen behind which they would actually sacrifice all of them in a heartbeat!

    It's really sad and maddening how so many of you can't see this....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    6,946
    14,628
    210
    Because you want to sacrifice my right to freedom. I rather die free than frightened by a virus. If you and others want to be terrified go and lockdown yourselves.
     
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    No, I would rather lock you down, if you want to infect me and mine...

    Because I do not want to infect you and yours!!! And I will act in that manner!

    So, go figure....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Senior Member

    Nov 7, 2013
    399
    148
    10
    If your wearing your mask and doing sozial distancing whats your problem ? So frightened you want to give other people orders ...... allthough you wear a mask and do sozial distancing ? ....... so ...... at least in your theory you cant get infected ? .......... so ...... whats your problem ?
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    Think before you write!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

    Nov 30, 2014
    3,814
    829
    120
    all of the sudden everyone is a covid19 expert;)
     
  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    Given that real experts do not agree - fundamentally! - it's no surprise...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Senior Member

    Nov 7, 2013
    399
    148
    10
    If your wearing your mask and doing sozial distancing whats your problem ? So frightened you want to give other people orders ...... allthough you wear a mask and do sozial distancing ? ....... so ...... at least in your theory you cant get infected ? .......... so ...... whats your problem ?
     
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    3,864
    1,024
    120
    I have none but I can see how you have several... FCOL, this is ABC, put your thinking cap on, man!!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,163
    12,696
    340
    What's that for.... a NAZI ideology?
    And how do you recognize that 'he' would infect you?
    The potential allone? Denunciation as prophylaxis? When you notice that he's not following the rules?

    Thank god you have not the powers to lock others down...and if you could I would defend myself in case of need by physical violence.
    It's unbelievable how far single individuals would go to defend a mass hysteria.

    I bought nothing. I have reasoned my ideas and posted sources.

    You would everybody consider as expert that feeds your fears.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    4,893
    4,491
    150
    I think common sense is that a virus that has an infection period of x time can be stopped by having the infected quarantined for x period of time. How you go about it would be interesting. You can take the China policy and forcibly lockdown everyone. But non communist societies can't do that as effectively. As @Yen said he would resort to violence in that situation, which is pretty much what we're seeing now in some places. So I'm interested in hearing how you can contain a pandemic without stepping on people's freedom !? How do you find the middle ground and not be offended by a store whose policy is mask or no service!? Yes it is your right to choose not to wear a mask, but it's also the right of the employees to not want to serve you for fear of infection. Irrelevant of what the mask can and can't do.

    There is a quote by Mark Twain that I think can be modified to fit this situation.