This seriously devalues the notion - stop misusing it!!! After a while it will be meaningless and sanitised by such stupid and uninformed over-usage! Let's remember: Nazi-Fascists were killing in the streets, in death camps, mostly on the basis of something the victims did not choose!!! These morons are not being killed or even imprisoned, sometimes they are not even fined (the recent case of SNP MP in the UK, for instance), as at the time when the offence took place these were not yet laws but recommendations. So stop being emotionally bonkers!!! Btw, they are preparing a first world vaccine study with Human volunteers in the UK...
I agree with you that the Nazis killed in the streets! And now everyone is being killed at home, when 2 billion people are left without work and there is nothing to live for? Viruses they constantly mutate but it has always been. I already wrote the mortality rate of 465 people from January to September from COVID, and from the flu in 2017 there were almost 800 people in 3 months. Who supports the propaganda of COVID are fascists! If you remain without means of subsistence, then you will speak differently - but it will be too late.
Easy: You take the recent proportionality of means at COVID-19 as basic and do apply the same proportionality to other pathogens / viruses / bacteria that are floating around. In detail: You develop a test for the pathogens and do the same amount of testing. You create dashboards for it so that people can stare on the numbers of 'infections'. You would get the same shocking dynamics when a raise is rolling. But what is 'the difference'? Total number of infections and fatality rate. That's the reason why it would make no sense to record the numbers of infections of rhinoviruses, to apply measures such as lockdowns and to isolate people. Rhinoviruses are simply not that fatal, but very very infectious. (Almost every adult on earth had multiple infections already). But now we -humankind- have other pathogens as well. I have picked up pneumonia. Applying the same proportionality of means to it it would 'create' an 'impression' that is far more frightening than COVID-19. You would have numbers exceeding those of COVID-19 by far. 500000 sick people (not infected people) each year 35000 deaths (3-5% mortality rate). COVID-19: 373167 infections (not sick people) / 9836 deaths. I took those for Germany. And please don't say pneumonia is more harmless. You die a wretched death by choking. What I said now is that we have to care again about the proportionality of the means. This means COVID-19 has to be integrated and returned to 'common' proportionalities. When a new virus is spreading and you cannot make an opinion about fatality you also cannot know which means are appropriate. You have to do anything against it. And test what you can..... But know since we know more about COVID-19 and the fatality rate it is among 'common' pathogens that causes more or less fatalities. We need to return now back to proper diagnostics and give up mass testing. It is not reasoned anymore! My condolences to those who are abused as guinea pig 'voluntarily'....assuming you are talking about mRNA based vaccine. It's bold that such a new kind of agent can already be tested at humans without to have gathered enough results at animal testing... It should alarm you. I know what you have posted about Grünenthal / Thalidomide. There is a valid scientific concern I have posted already (how CD4+/CD8+ cells recognize corona viruses and fight / kill them)....before I did know that I had another opinion about human trials and the sense of mRNA based vaccines and my spirit of research dominated...but not today anymore...
As you should. The numbers are rising, not falling. Worldwide! Reality check for Yen. On top of that, we are not testing enough so the real numbers are bound to be higher, probably much higher. It seems we can get reinfected and the second time around one might NOT get off so easily... Many people did not go to a hospital, did not report it. That means silly straightforward statistics alone is inadequate to address the issues!!! Medical staff are also getting infected and dying in many cases. Many are at least emotionally too tired to continue. And what is Yen advocating? No restrictions, i.e. worse run on the hospital's, ever more infected, debilitated or dead people... The mind boggles, the soul shudders... The fact we have other diseases which may or may not be worse in terms of death rate is quite silly. "Oh, we are not doing the same for y, so why are we doing it for X?" Seriously? FCOL!!! Instead of strengthening our efforts in both directions he wants to do the opposite... Where is QAnon to bitch about a nasty conspiracy when there is a good reason for it...?!?!?
You still don't get that the numbers you are relying on distort the impression of the pandemic even because the test rate is that high! We here have 20 million tests already, but a positive rate of 1.9% only. At flu 17/18 we had a positive rate of 40% and a few 1000 nds tests only. Proper diagnostic here! And besides of that. The more you test the more are counted as COVID-19 deaths. In other words: COVID-19 has no other chance to appear 'that dangerous' when applying such a high rate of random tests, any other infection would behave the same way! Where is your rational mind? Our society cannot stand the measures we recently apply to COVID-19 that long time as I assume it would last. They are based on an irrational high test rate far off from proper diagnostics. That is result of my evaluation. And I am not alone. It hurts any understanding of proper science. Can I do please, without to be considered as corona denier?!? And :"Why don't we apply the same proportionality of means at pneumonia?" Is a valid question. The topic here is a superlative: A pandemic. So it should affect superlatives. Pneumonia is more dangerous and unconsidered. Why? And what would we do if a 'real' dangerous virus is spreading? Such as MERS and Ebola? I don't want to do the opposite. I want to do the same, based on reason. I think we sooner or later have to return to the same way of diagnostics. Diagnostic which is conform to proper science! BTW: I have to stop to do my internship in the lab with my young people. At the entire class there is one COVID-19 positive. The entire class has been sent to quarantine. I did a voluntary COVID-19 test. I am negative, but I am now jobless in this regard... Will return to the research lab tomorrow. Continuing my work there. Internship has been interrupted. Keep you updated.
Yes, as per usual, anything that doesn't fit your newly found dogma - you ignore... And the numbers keep rising and rising... Never mind...
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu Lie. This is the supreme lie they have successfully crafted to condemn all humanity to a lockdown. Damn be their souls and their ancestors and their offspring.
Indeed! I keep posting these facts but... The numbers I have found recently indicated greater than 5 times (COVID over flu) mortality in the USofA and 3 times in the UK... Obviously these were conservative estimates by comparison with what you found - but "who cares for numbers and facts" attitude is so much easier when you have an axe to grind or some kind of little dogma (for comfort, like a favourite blanket without which a kid can not fall asleep...)... A Hungarian doctor who insisted on washing hands before dealing with women giving birth was driven to suicide by the "who gives a damn" brigade, laughing in his face, even though he reduced mortality to almost zero, for instance... The numbers are relentlessly going up but some here decided that's all irrelevant, as is severe suffering of so many around the world - because their understanding of testing and methodology is "flawed"... Jesus Marx wept! It can not be "perfect" but that does not invalidate so much suffering around the globe - and yet....
These are no facts! This is the only sentence you have to read there, says all. "COVID-19: Complications including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs is possible after a severe case of COVID-19." Speaking of long term when there is no long term available? Ridiculous! And also ridiculous to say COVID-19 is more dangerous. You compare to flu which can be vaccinated to get at least a protection of ~30%. I have already illustrated what's the main difference in diagnostics. We never had such a high test rate at flu. And still here 10000 versus 25000 mortality rate compared to 17/18. And also to compare a certain virus SARS-Cov2 to a general sickness clearly indicates poor science and a bad source posted. Flu is a collective of many different kind of viruses (influenza A,B,C categorisations) When our workgroup publishes own scientific works in such journals we have to stand validations and we usually pass after first revision. It is tedious to explain the very basics of proper differentiation based on scientific knowledge. And I mainly post from scientific journals with best reputation. Your clearly soak up reports that are demonizing COVID-19. Something is wrong with your rational mind. Almost seems like being paralyzed.....
@Yen, the numbers are actually much worse! But you do NOT know them! And you have the arrogance to behave as if you do!!! Look here: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...itain-nhs-corporate-executives-test-and-trace - this is how you fight the libertarian mantra, this is a real critical approach, as opposed to your clueless libertarian "gurus"...
Is it? This morning a lady phoned into LBC radio programme, she got C-19 at an airport, where 7 flights from Wuhan arrived on 22nd of December 2019. She is still ill, can't find the right words, she is constantly exhausted, her symptoms are changing constantly, she can't go back to work, she is left alone, even her family, listening to the likes of your gurus, has abandoned her - and she was some kind of an executive, not exactly the kind who would not want to go back to her exciting career, high earnings, good quality lifestyle... So, that's long term to me. Covid-19 caused! Worse still, in some people this might only get worse with another infection. Call this not C-19 related... The R29 link also speaks of C-19 lingering nature - but you ignore it. In fact, you ignore EVERYTHING that doesn't fit your newly found dogma! It is getting tiresome to have to post ever more evidence when you are so bloody stubbornly turned to being a believer, rather than an inquiring scientist, fuelling others here posting utter rubbish!!! Oh, you mean that estimates of 3 -5 time greater mortality of C-19 than flu has been lost on you (the article R29 posted was actually much less "generous" - 10 times it states) - or are you now getting into a really silly tantrum, like a child who lost his toy due to being too vehement while playing with his new hypothesis and now wants others to undo what he has done? As in, we should bow to your superior capacity of ignoring evidence, just so your gurus (and you with them) could be "right"? Nice... All that despite evidence to the contrary, numbers rising everywhere... You mainly report from somebody else's brain, when it comes to C-19! Their understanding of statistics is marred by their general world-view and not having a clue as to how their understanding should be transposed into Public Health Policy which is based on "Do no harm"!!! Says a man who is demonising people who report factually just how dire the situation is... WTF?!? Something is wrong with your scientific credentials! Either you understand that science must be open to constantly emerging, new evidence or you are not a scientist but a theologian!!! https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...0000-excess-deaths-in-us-spain-nears-1m-cases Here is yet another example of BS "mindset" that allowed for C-19 measures to be removed so they could have a tourist season (economy is much more important that health or even life itself!!!) and then... Moreover... They are all wrong, they are all inventing things, eh?!? Just how much "faith" in your gurus do you have to be able to block out all this evidence?!? What will it take for you, how many deaths, nasty reports, suffering will it take for you to actually start thinking and feeling at the same time and question your gurus' understanding and interpreting of obviously PARTIAL STATISTICS?!?
Evidence? You are simply posting what's going on. All of those rules are mainly enacted per edict by suspending the constitution. And all the rules are lacking any base of evidence. They are applied without to really know their effectivity. This fact more dangerous than COVID-19 itself. I would not even put 'evidence' in my mouth at the NBER study saying.."Lockdowns and Mask Mandates Do Not Lead to Reduced COVID Transmission Rates or Deaths, New Study Suggests" (https://www.aier.org/article/lockdo...nsmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/) And which number is greater: 10000 or 25000? Sorry to say flu17/18 caused still 2.5 times more victims here. And when you point to certain bad situations at hospitals and exhausted personal, then please relate it to other high seasons and go figure if their recent conditions are extraordinary COVID related and not reasoned by bad public health politics before. Caused by the responsible 'trained ones' you do glorify as people who know their job.
Questions at all ---- > Instead of endless verbal acrobatics in downward spirals why not get your positions clear ? Instead of talking about what is and how you see it and complaining . Tell us what you want ? How would you deal with the situation ? What precations ? Enforcement ? Lockdowns ? Curfews ? Punishments ? Essential workers ? ...... In as few words as possible please
You already know each position of everyone here. Come on you can even make a summary, read old posts.
@Yen, yes, "what''s actually going on" IS evidence! Only a religious dogmatic would claim otherwise... Makes you think.... or not... probably not in your case.... But you were not like that always, so such a weird experience.... For starters, you should make certain distinctions between political side of the phenomenon and the medical side of things, so the 2 sides of things do not pollute each other... First one needs to understand what's REALLY going on medically and scientifically and then what can/should be done about it... You are polluting the first with the second, while raising some valid questions. But your methodology sucks!!!