Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

    Jan 19, 2019
    470
    321
    10
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #122 Yen, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Because they are no objective facts!

    This article is unserious and dangerous.
    The headline alone " A Swiss doc to COVID-19" should have alarmed you!

    It's a shame that people are not able to differentiate proper science and objective reporting from personal bias and improper reporting. It's a cheap propaganda.
    Are you really that blind-eyed that you cannot notice that this is made to deny the official numbers?

    Open your eyes!
    Whenever the primary goal of an author is NOT information, but underlining an personal ideology (to disprove 'the media' and the official numbers) it's not objective!

    Every serious scientist names his profession / work / project and real name!

    Go ask in Italy why there are that much victims!

    They don't have enough beds and respirators to help the people there!
    The doctors there have to decide who can get help and who has to die..because there is not enough capacity..and that is the reason why the mortality is highest there followed by Spain.

    The statistical mortality rate has an natural issue, though.
    Anybody who has died is counted and statistically recorded whereas not any COVID19 positive can be recorded due to lack of tests.

    This means any COVID19 mortality rate is naturally lower than recorded.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    4,068
    4,649
    150
    Therein lies the problem. Lack of testing.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
    1,681
    738
    60
    Yen

    Thank you . Please can you explain what your personal objections to that report are ?

    If there aren't objective facts how do you come to your personal opinion ? What do you base it on ?

    I'm frightened because all over the net ignorant people are proclaiming themselves to be experts , are giving advice and are being very agresive about it . Missinformation to the point of a society on the edge of panic .
     
  5. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

    Jan 19, 2019
    470
    321
    10
    #125 vladnil, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

    Feb 25, 2010
    946
    2,528
    30
    the problem is we react to a disaster we don't prepare for one ! between earthquakes , floods , fires , viruses we react ! what would happen today if a large asteroid hit the earth are we prepared ? no not really !
    no government in the world is prepared for any large event , as far as a virus is concerned it has to spread enough to be noticed and be harmful before we do anything about it ! does it attack the brain, liver , kidney's , skin ,intestines' lungs ! and then what government is going to spend billions for equipment preparing for what to happen , and the people would love to be taxed for something that might happen or not as they say . they cant prepare for everything ! the news reporters are also a problem in an emergency there quick to blame governments for not being prepared and present information to the people in a way that causes panic and riots hording and fear . is there an answer to the problem not at this point in time no we are still learning !
     
  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #127 Yen, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    It's maybe due to my profession (I do own scientific reports, but no medical). I only needed to read the first sentences than I knew this cannot be a serious report and after I finished it reading I knew I was right.

    The author is not named, should be a Swiss doctor and there is no workgroup or any research project behind it.

    The author links to official sources, this is not the point, but he makes the wrong conclusions or makes correlations which are not proved. (Bad air quality as major factor in Italy).

    Be careful from single author reports especially when they do not identify themselves.

    It starts like: "A Swiss doctor asked us to publish the following information on the current situations to make it possible readers can do a realistic RE."

    First of all a realistic RE is hardly possible when you try to do it for a single person for instance yourself.
    (Sure older people are more affected and people with special medical records as well.)


    And what's the point of statements like: "Corona is not worse than the flu!" This has no place in a scientific report without to have proof! People in the Lombardy do not care about that statement since there it is far more worse atm...

    Official and objective sources only report what's happening......
    COVID19 is more virulent than the flu, that is true and there are around 5% of infections -attention infections which are reported- which temporarily need artificial respiration. And yes there are also a few younger people who needed it.
    4/5 have only mild symptoms.
    But nobody can tell you how your personal infection will be if you should get infected...
    You can check what's the capacity there where you live and you can evaluate to which group you belong to.


    Use official sources such as Johns Hopkins institute if you want objective statistics:
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
    Use reports from Universities / Institutes and avoid those from single 'doctors'...

    And if you want to protect yourself apply common sense hygiene. (Distance to people and washing hands frequently)...

    You should know only a vaccine or an infection will cure yourself from COVID19. The former is not yet available.

    A final word to Italy. 6800 people died there till today. I took part in a chat somebody living in the Lombardy describing the situation.
    The infection rate exploded in that particular area and there are that many dead that they have huge delay burning / bury all the bodies..most funerals happen without anybody taking part...many people died in their home...

    I mean who cares about a questionable reason bad air quality there? Is that really a point mentioning in a 'serious' article about corona? And who cares about one saying: That is not true! Not all them 6800 have died due to corona?!?

    What is the intention of the author? He wants to be right and wants the others to be wrong that's all.
    But he does not want to help people informing about corona...he's not objective. And he tries to downplay the statistics.

    The intention is to 'find' errors, but numbers are numbers and hygiene is hygiene and capacity is capacity and health system is health system.

    The expansion is still exponential in most countries that is fact..and the infection is taking part and statistics are developing...flu is known COVID19 is still new.....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

    Jan 19, 2019
    470
    321
    10
    Remember the words of Joseph Goebbels (Nobody will believe in a lie, but everyone will believe in a huge lie !!!)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #129 Yen, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    And what do you want to express by that? It's an useless and senseless statement of an idiot (Goebbels).
    It's not about lie. And it's not about 'the media' who constantly lie on us....or 'they'...

    Nobody 'lies'. It's about playing a lone hand. It's about lacking of the necessary seriousness.
    It's about the 'new' media that allows that a single person can play an expert.

    Have you researched how the 'Ibuprofen lie' was created?
    Somebody made the wrong conclusions about a real scientific report and the wrong conclusion became truth via whats-app, went viral, and million of people got spoiled and confused...

    And it's about what @zen45 stated correctly the fact that we are still learning and about the fact that we are actually still clueless. Nothing ever happened like corona before.

    Do you understand why people should stay at home and why there are such strict restrictions which have a huge impact on our daily life?

    All is made to retard the infection rate so that we

    -do not exceed our capacities at health system also to make it possible that people with a higher risk have best chances for successful treatments. We want to have as less as possible people who have to die by corona
    -gain time to develop a vaccine
    -to moderate the natural immunization process by infection and by that to control the level of endemic infection.

    Therefore
    We sacrifice and endanger our economy, our economical capacities by that (also our primary care).
    We are shutting down our social life
    We create harm on individual economic situations and special economical branches (self employment, artists, musicians, etc).
    We create physiological harm and stress by fear and quarantine situations
    We destroy subsistence....we worsen situations of poor people and homeless people

    Later then we have to think about if we have done it right..or better said if it all was 'worth' about...or if another way would have been far better.

    Fact is we do not know it better atm and people are addicted to answers nobody who remains serious could give!
    Only the unserious people dare to give them answers which do not exist yet (only goal is self-befits)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

    Jan 19, 2019
    470
    321
    10
    #130 vladnil, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    You do not know the story that is associated with this expression?

    After that, Paris was taken without a single shot.

    Linked to Lyaburge ...... tooltip
    You wrote a lot of text. In your words No specifics! No Facts! You are engaged in dimagogy. You are under stress and you are dangerous to society!
    __________________________________________________
    The thought came in the morning that quarantine is a kind of opportunity to gather people at home and, with the help of the media, impose an opinion on them, that is, for zombie or process. I realized that the virus is the TV itself. There is a clear information pollution, and when the virus-virus is repeated around, people fool around and believe in it. Although everyone thinks that they have their own opinion and only theirs. In fact, there is an opinion imposed on people!
    __________________________________________________

    I look google translator translates false words. My words look like an insulting call. I apologize in advance is not my fault - all claims to google translator.

    I didn’t want to offend anyone, we are all sane people.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #131 Yen, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    I don't feel offended anything is good. :)

    But I cannot comprehend what you say....and I don't think you have understood what I have posted.
    I keep myself informed what's going on here (Germany) and I use serious sources to make up my mind.
    For instance this about Italy's situation https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2020-03/corona-sterberaten-italien-deutschland-epidemiologie
    (Those are :"Erklärungsversuche" (attempted explanation)) ! No assertions....

    Corona is not only COVID19.
    It is a crisis for the entire humankind.
    It's no training it is real.
    People have to make decisions in time. And by that they have to gauge....fact is corona will cause a lot of damage.

    If you deny COVID19 then you are blind. And if you deny a human crisis then you are also blind.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

    Jan 19, 2019
    470
    321
    10
    The virus has nothing to do with it!

    I got the impression that some military exercises were taking place, preparations for something more grandiose, and the virus is just an excuse.

    Assumptions:

    1: preparations are underway for the withdrawal of cash (money) transfer to electronic money.

    2: controlling people for freedom of movement

    3: total and unquestioning obedience of people, if you are against (fine then prison)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    Well, your personal impression depends on information and where you live (country).
    When you compare different nations then you see the 'states of exception' are also different. Also the penalties.
    It also depends on infection rate.

    But all nations have in common that they all try to stop COVID19 from spreading. This means restrictions per se...

    The applied rules are different also the idea of a future is different. (Trump the fool thinks the US economy will be at 100% after easter again...)

    I have a rational explanation for your points...

    1. Cash (real money, coins) can be theoretically contaminated by COVID19. E payment is safer
    2. When you 'move' you can get and spread the virus. We here must not meet more than 2 people at the public.
    3. The 'authorities' means to enforce the rules... can go up to 25000 € penalty...depends on nation / country...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. vladnil

    vladnil MDL Senior Member

    Jan 19, 2019
    470
    321
    10
    #134 vladnil, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    No, everybody can have a personal opinion. And after it we will be always cleverer than before.
    And you can only question panic by making an opinion of what's common panic. I don't have any panic about corona.
    The politicians have decided to do anything to retard the expansion of COVID19...I have already posted what we do sacrifice for that...


    BTW: I respect Hendrik Streeck pretty much. I read and listen to what he's doing. He is also contributing by lots of research.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

    Oct 30, 2009
    49,647
    103,299
    450
    The lack of testing is because the 1 or 2 (maybe a few more) companies worldwide making the laboratory pcr test kits can't keep up with the need for them, in the lab my wife works it's 1500 tests a day nowadays, and that is just one of the many, many labs in germany and around the world.
     
  17. ipx

    ipx MDL Addicted

    May 24, 2017
    774
    738
    30
    #137 ipx, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
    .
     
  18. WindowsGeek

    WindowsGeek MDL Expert

    Jun 30, 2015
    1,493
    435
    60
    The new world order;)
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    I couldn't agree more.
    Although lab personal detecting virus DNA usually is well educated and well-resourced and hence well protected.

    My respect is for the people working in supermarkets and all the medical personal. :worthy:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

    Oct 30, 2009
    49,647
    103,299
    450
    #140 Enthousiast, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    Ideally, yes, practically, mwah, not allowed to talk about it in detail but this is a crisis situation, even for them.

    About the availabillity of the test kits, roche is asked to share their recipe for it, for others to be able to create them theirselves but they did not respond positive to the requests, yet.