Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #1441 Yen, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
    Cluster 5 seems to be a mutation in that way that current antibodies are losing their effectivity.
    https://www.thelocal.dk/20201105/how-serious-is-denmarks-mink-coronavirus-mutation-and-outbreak

    The odd thing is that they come from minks and all them get to be killed....
    It seems to turn out protection on antibody level has got another reason (besides of early decline) why a vaccine won't stop the pandemic, sooner than expected.

    Mutations are not extraordinary (D614G). The original wuhan virus sequence has mutated before already and also the fact that corona viruses jump onto animals back and forth is not extraordinary.
    The point is where the mutation does happen (spike protein)...

    Yeah well, we still have T cells. Those are not that specific....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    You are at home with some of that stuff, of course...

    But when it comes to politics, sociology of it all - ouch...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    Mutations are natural. D614G, 20A.EU1, Cluster 5......

    The natural drive of the virus is to coexist with the host. Therefore it mutates for survival but usually loses its harmfulness. It probably gets more virulent but less dangerous during mutations. It probably moves more to the upper respiratory tract to get closer to be more able to form aerosols which do fly. And by that I think it gets integrated to his former common cold brothers.

    MERS and SARS are deeper down there and stayed, therefore could not spread that much and are much more dangerous because their inflammation potential is much higher.

    We have to find ways where we can live with this virus.
    Away from global announcements such as lockdowns to active protective measures.

    I can only speak again positively about the quick tests before events and according to new studies measures to clean air (for instance air purification / portable devices in classrooms, there where people are meeting each others).

    We need to change focus away from to lockdown the events / locations / institution to HOW they can be realized with reasonable virus control.

    This is the way for the future. It is actually derived from 'where I am at home'...to intervene there where the virus finally jumps from individual to individual.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    No it isn't! And I hope it will never be the case! Politics can not be about numbers, about economy etc. It must be about people! Every single one of us!

    Your stance just shows how little you really know of the other areas....

    Live Coronavirus: Italy reports record rise in cases and 446 deaths; Sweden hits record infections high
    27m ago
    Latvia will go into a four-week lockdown beginning on 9 November to slow the spread of Covid-19, which has accelerated in recent weeks in the Baltic nation. The country reported 367 new cases on Friday, bringing the total number to 7,119 with 87 deaths. It had only 2,086 total cases on 1 October. Under the new rules, social contact is discouraged and a maximum of 10 people from no more than two households will be allowed to gather inside. Restaurants can serve only takeaway food and shops will l

    1h ago
    Italy records record rise in cases. Italy has registered 37,809 new coronavirus infections over the past 24 hours, the country’s highest ever daily tally, the health ministry said today. The figure was more than 3,000 up on Thursday’s tally of 34,505. The ministry also reported 446 Covid-related deaths, up one from the 445 the previous day. A total of 40,638 people have now died because of Covid-19 in Italy, which has registered 862,681 confirmed coronavirus infections since the start of its outbreak. The northern region of Lombar

    1h ago
    As Canada battles its second wave of coronavirus infections, public health officials in the country’s western region are growing concerned as cases surge to new daily records. For much of the pandemic, high caseloads and fatalities have been concentrated in the two most populous provinces, Ontario and Quebec. But in recent weeks, Alberta and British Columbia have shattered their records for daily case numbers, with little sign of respite. “The fact that we are now reporting 800 new cases is extr

    [​IMG]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
    Plain f lies
     
  6. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
    #1446 Mr.X, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    Brave....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
    Bill Gates soborna medios de información para controlar las noticias
    Un artículo del Columbia Journalism Review, CJR revela que, para controlar el periodismo global, Bill Gates ha pagado más de 250 millones de dólares a

    • BBC,
    • NPR,
    • NBC,
    • Al Jazeera,
    • ProPublica ,
    • National Journal ,
    • The Guardian ,
    • The New York Times ,
    • Univision, Medium ,
    • The Financial Times ,
    • The Atlantic ,
    • Texas Tribune ,
    • Gannett,
    • Washington Monthly ,
    • Le Monde ,
    • Center for Investigative Reporting,
    • Pulitzer Center,
    • National Press Foundation,
    • International Center for Journalists
    • y una serie de otros grupos.
    Para ocultar su influencia, Gates también canalizó sumas desconocidas a través de subvenciones para contratos con otros medios de prensa.

    Sus sobornos a la prensa han dado sus frutos. Durante la pandemia, los medios de comunicación comprados han tratado a Bill Gates como un experto en salud pública, a pesar de su falta de formación médica o experiencia regulatoria.

    Gates también financia un ejército de verificadores que son los que censuran en Facebook, de hechos independientes, incluidos el Instituto Poynter y Gannett, que utilizan sus plataformas de verificación de hechos para “silenciar a los detractores” y “desacreditar” como “falsas teorías de conspiración” y “desinformación”, cargos que Gates ha defendido y invertido en chips biométricos , sistemas de identificación de vacunas , vigilancia satelital y vacunas COVID .

    Los sobornos de Gates para los medios, dice el autor de Columbia Journalism Review, Tim Schwab, significan que ” la información crítica sobre la Fundación Gates es rara “. La Fundación Bill y Melinda Gates rechazó múltiples solicitudes de entrevistas de Columbia Journalism Review CJR y se negó a revelar cuánto dinero ha canalizado a los periodistas.

    En 2007, antes de ser vendido a un grupo farmaceutico, el LA Times publicó una de las únicas investigaciones críticas sobre la Fundación Gates, exponiendo las participaciones de Gates en empresas que perjudican a las personas que su fundación afirma ayudar, como industrias vinculadas al trabajo infantil. El reportero principal Charles Piller, dice : “No estaban dispuestos a responder preguntas y prácticamente se negaron a responder de alguna manera …” ver video con subtitulos:

    La Dra. Suzanne Humphries explica por qué los buenos médicos son coaccionados por el actual sistema médico para no poder practicar una medicina real y ética. Humphries denuncia el tremendo poder de la Fundación de Bill Gates, que con 10.000.000.000 millones de dolares logró aunar estrategia con Universidades, la Organización Mundial de la Salud, laboratorios y el Dpto de Seguridad de los EEUU, para que desde el 2010-2020 sea la Década de las vacunas; desarrolló un plan de acción mundial de vacunas; y creó la Alianza Global público-privada para vacunas e inmunizaciones (Alianza GAVI), que recibe casi una cuarta parte de su financiamiento de la Fundación Gates. La seguridad de combinar vacunas, que incluyen tejido fetal de humanos abortados, mercurio, aluminio, formaldehído, ADN animal y humano, y más, en bebés y niños.
    La investigación mostró cómo la financiación de salud global de Gates ha orientado la agenda de ayuda mundial hacia los objetivos personales de Gates ( vacunas y cultivos transgénicos ) y lejos de cuestiones como la preparación para emergencias para responder a brotes de enfermedades, como la crisis del Ébola.

    “Han esquivado nuestras preguntas y han buscado socavar nuestra cobertura”, dice el periodista independiente Alex Park después de investigar los esfuerzos de la Fundación Gates para vacunar contra la polio.


    https://cienciaysaludnatural.com/bi...s-de-informacion-para-controlar-las-noticias/
     
  9. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
    7,894
    10,735
    240
    :rolleyes:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #1450 Yen, Nov 7, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
    My suggestions ARE about people!
    It's about how schools / university / DCC can work besides of the pandemic.
    It's about how social events / gastronomy / cultural events / work-life can work besides of the pandemic.

    It seems you still are not aware of the urgency to find such ways long term.

    The harm that is caused by lockdowns does not 'appear' as people who have to take consequences by a viral infection, it appears as damage of (social) structure / education and society. It affects the kids, their education. It affects the perspective of single individuals, their job and their life. And some of them are even losing their 'life' because of it.

    There is no other way than to apply measures there where the virus can jump, long term. The virus won't vanish any time soon. And there will be the time where we cannot afford to lockdown anymore.

    It costs endless of billions to support the affected ones during lockkdown. And the money does not 'reach' anybody. There is a great injustice.
    Airlines and big companies get money, single self-employed people for instance working at the event branch / artists get nothing.

    The money should have been used to care about medical capacities in time.
    And it should be used to develop measures where we can live with the pandemic.
    Where we can have school / university / DCC despite of the pandemic.
    Where we can have social events / gastronomy/ culture / work-life despite of the pandemic.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    HALLELUJAH, X!!!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    @Yen, you are not aware what we can do long term! Just because your gurus can't think in those terms you dismiss it out of hand!

    We have the capacity, the technology, we have done it already, when pushed they are already doing it, so...???

    Your "logic" is all over the floor - quite a mess!!! - IF THEY LOSE THEIR LIVES WHO GIVES A FLYING F*&% ABOUT THE ECONOMY!!!!

    So, your "logic" is NOT about the people because you do not see the very basis of all of this!

    And until you do - you are just not a serious interlocutor on the subject of Public Health Policy!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    All lies, right?

     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
    #1455 Mr.X, Nov 7, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
    ARE YOU GETTING SERVICES BILLS FOR FREE AND FOOD AND CLOTHING AND ETC ETC FOR FREE?
    I can say without doubts I am not.

    Are you?
    Letting millions to die from hunger and poverty?


    @gorski
    How do you live (get money for a living) right now in the middle of this pandemic?
     
  16. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
    BBC,
    NPR,
    NBC,
    Al Jazeera,
    ProPublica ,
    National Journal ,
    The Guardian ,
    The New York Times ,
    Univision, Medium ,
    The Financial Times ,
    The Atlantic ,
    Texas Tribune ,
    Gannett,
    Washington Monthly ,
    Le Monde ,
    Center for Investigative Reporting,
    Pulitzer Center,
    National Press Foundation,
    International Center for Journalists and many others... LIARS!!!!!
    Those are your sources... Bunch of liars servants of the system.
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    X, I told you before: your state is failing you! It is their duty to take care of your needs! Ask Yen about Germany, for instance....

    Judging the whole world from your Mexican perspective is no different than an American millionaire judging everything from his perspective or a Russian oligarch from his or a member of an Italian precariat from his/hers or an Albanian nun from her perspective etc. etc.

    You really do not appreciate the fact that even USofA had to completely abandon neo-liberal BS and for a while - however partially and inadequately, for too short a period, without sufficient enforcement of the necessary measures etc. etc. - pay everybody to stay at home....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,549
    1,478
    180
    An example: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41649-020-00134-2

    "This article explores Vietnam’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic as an example of good ethical practice in dealing with the COVID-19 outbreak. Vietnam’s response to the pandemic is in accordance with the ethics of care which emphasizes solidarity and responsibility. Vietnam’s approach to the COVID-19 pandemic is also in accordance with the third generation of human rights that promote solidarity and responsibilities towards the community. A full implementation of human rights requires more emphasis on responsibilities, especially in the time of crisis."

    https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/society...orted-covid19-cases-tally-now-1168/57445.html

    Just look at this: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...vid-economic-growth-public-health-coronavirus

    Vietnam is fighting Covid without pitting economic growth against public health
    Tran Le Thuy
    My country seemed to have all the ingredients for a coronavirus disaster, so what has it done right?

    Tue 20 Oct 2020 12.23 BST

    On the evening of 7 March 2020, I received an email from the manager of the office building where I work in central Hanoi. It said the father of Nguyen Hong Nhung, the 17th Covid-19 patient in the country and first in the city, had dined on the third floor of the building the night before. Although he had twice tested negative for the virus, the building managers had reported his presence to the authorities. Seven staff who had been in contact with him were isolated and the building was immediately cleaned with disinfectant spray.

    To date, Vietnam (population: 95 million) has recorded 35 deaths from the novel coronavirus. My office building’s response was typical of the aggressive contact-tracing strategy the country adopted from the beginning of the pandemic. During the first phase, the government managed to cut off all the virus transmission routes promptly and comprehensively. Every infected person was hospitalised. People in contact with them were traced to the fourth layer and isolated. Their homes and neighbourhoods were put under local lockdown and sanitised by the army. The country has effectively been acting as if this were biological warfare.

    Vietnam had all the ingredients for a Covid-19 disaster. It has a 1,300km (800-mile) border with China, with lots of informal trade via secret mountain trails, and an under-developed healthcare system (albeit a well functioning one). So, beyond contact-tracing, why has Vietnam been so good at dealing with the pandemic?

    The central reason is perhaps the way the government has depoliticised the pandemic, treating it purely as a health crisis, allowing for effective governance. There was no political motive for government officials to hide information, as they don’t face being reprimanded if there are positive cases in their authority area that are not due to their mistakes. I haven’t heard about any religious opposition to the government’s strategy either. With the head of Hanoi centre for disease control being arrested for suspected corruption in relation to the purchase of testing kits, and small traders getting fines for price-gouging face-masks, the government has also been clear that public health cannot be entangled with commercial interests.
    The second reason is Vietnam knows China well – it learned from the Sars outbreak in 2003 that the Chinese authorities might downplay it. In January, when Wuhan announced the first death, Vietnam tightened its border and airport control of Chinese visitors. This wasn’t an easy decision, given that cross-border trade with China accounts for a significant part of the Vietnamese economy. When the first Covid cases were announced in Vietnam – a father and son from China – it took precautionary measures above and beyond World Health Organization recommendations, including health declaration and temperature screening at every border entry point and stopping flights to and from Wuhan. Preparations for a pandemic were implemented a week before the outbreak was officially a public health emergency of international concern, and more than a month before WHO declared Covid-19 a pandemic.

    The government also decided to embrace freedom of information on Covid-related matters. Although the Vietnamese media is state-owned, featuring ideological control similar to that of China, they are free to report about the pandemic. When a member of the central theoretical council of the central committee, the brain of the Communist party of Vietnam, contracted the virus on a trip to the UK, and risked infecting the minister of planning and investment who was on the same flight as him, his whereabouts were published for contact tracing. This was another lesson learned from the experience of Sars.

    The motto for the first phase was that if we stay alive, the question of wealth and the economy can come later. Ordinary people did suffer, such as the gig economy workers: whenever I order a Grabcar (a south-east Asian version of Uber) these days, the vehicle that arrives is always newer and more expensive that what I’m used to; as a driver explained, those who used to pick me up in their cheaper cars have had to sell them to stay afloat, leaving only those with deeper pockets left in the market.

    But now the government has shifted its anti-Covid strategy towards the economy. The tactics for the second wave are more sophisticated. Contact tracing is still prompt and aggressive but lockdown and isolation are more selective; international flights have been opened for foreign workers, such as engineers from South Korea’s LG, who are needed to keep the economy functioning.

    For now it looks like Vietnam has seen off the threat of a second wave. There will be challenges ahead – the shops and hotels in the most fancy streets of Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City remain empty, and South Korea, one of Vietnam’s biggest investors, is pushing for it to shorten the time for compulsory isolation for foreign workers. But given that Vietnam is one of the few countries in the world currently experiencing positive GDP growth, the supposed trade-off between the economy and public health, which countries around the world are negotiating, looks to be something of a false choice.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,556
    15,642
    270
    Or an English man judging other countries from his first world perspective.

    Alright from your perspective lock yourselves down for years if needed.

    I, we and many around the world need to get out and not follow the rules.