You again start over with your political drivel. YOUR idea of USA, eugenics, gurus, Humanity.......always harping on...boring to the bones... And your set is not even an unique set. It is going round in circles. There is not even an approach noticeable which could make any progress at the pandemic. It reflects the same inability as current politics. You are intellectually stuck in March and by that you still join the politicians' helpless way to try to control the pandemic. Measures get loosened when the numbers are 'low' and measures are approximating lockdown when they get higher. That is what they have learned so far. The individual subtleties are there where we can 'afford' a lockdown (schools / restaurants ?!?) and where not because of assigned 'systemic relevance'. The politicians' bumbledom is about to play the one who knows it best (just like you do) .."schools need to be open!, No schools have to be locked down. All them take things for granted without any support of evidence. No single measure has attracted significant attention that one could say this or that really has worked. Anybody in Europe did it the same bad way. Germany is just a bit better because of the 'German attributes' : obedient, following the rules, yes-sayers and best medical support in the world. France, Spain with massive lockdowns, Sweden with soft restrictions...all the same way. The pandemic is doing what it wants. No, you are not the only one who's stuck in dark age with your 'proper' set of measures. All the public health politicians are joining you. Also vaunting without real merit. We need a massive change how we deal and LIVE with the pandemic! Otherwisely see you at the 24th lockdown after the 24th wave. (I assume you are well supported by government assistance already. At least it's understandable that such ideas are originating from somebody who gets money of someone who is massively indebted -AKA govt- either way...) Yeah F**k capitalism, we don't have any money either way and never have earned some on our own. So we = GOVT can afford lockdown after lockdown...we have capacity!!!
Actually, I am the only one here who does NOT do "political drivel" - as for the rest, one or two are sympathetic, alas all the rest have no idea whether they are coming or going, you included! My "political drivel" is the best drivel there is! Period! Now, pandemic is not doing "what it wants" - that's political drivel! See Vietnam! And other countries! Germany? Don't make me laugh - yeah, very obedient... aha... Not as bad as the Italians etc. but... Sweden - of course it's a mess! If only you could stop your political drivel you would be able to see it! Mark my words, here and elsewhere it was worse than March only a couple of weeks or so. And already they are starting to loosen it all up. So, into March we are going, round about January! So, I'll ask you the same Q again: who was it doing the political drivel, you or me?
Of course it is political drivel! You cannot be serious reasoning that we can afford lockdown after lockdown BECAUSE we have supported those bl**dy bankers (and Greece) making huge amount of government debt so we can make even more debt again. That is logic that is only supported by those who never have earned their own money! Sorry but we here will probably extend lockdown#light until 20/12.....yeah and Merkel says..no prob here you get another 17 billion for those who are 'suffering'... It is easy to spend money you never had to earn on your own! (besides of that it is not present at all, it's all about to increase debt.) Vietnam located in Europe?!
Here is a vid (British guys) with one of those you call 'guru' @gorski (When talking about 'guru' you should know who he really is...to keep seriousness at arguing). I have not seen it yet completely. But I know other vids. His arguments aside, his 'plain' personality. Does it match to your idea of a guru you are always try to underline being a neo libertarian, a capitalist away from Humanity? @Mr.X Maybe interesting for you. I know you can categorize it quite well. (A long vid. Take your time if you like to watch it.) BTW: I know it is controversial. But most of his his arguments are valid IMHO. I actually stick to Streeck's POV. He's still tolerated at public media since his idea to argue is a bit cleverer in regards to rhetoric.
Have you any idea how many (just) medical staff - most of whom were fit and otherwise capable - have died on the job, @Yen? Nope. Of course not. You don't give a flying f..... And you're not volunteering to help them out! So, there, I rest my case... Mine certainly isn't drivel, politically or otherwise... Yours on the other hand, politically and otherwise... What, shall we sweet talk the virus into submission?
Have you? AFAIK I've once read about 22 people (Source RKI: Germany 27/7/2020). Could be a few more today. I actually do not differentiate the people who have died / died on their jobs. And according to the posted WHO bulletin the fatality rate is 0.23% (can change a little when dataset gets more and more representative to universe.) I am sorry, I don't have medical training and besides of that I am employed and do have other obligations (my own profession). Could you handle the devices? Are you allowed to administer stuff? I am not! Arrogating a way of categorizing which 'COVID-19 deaths' are more tragic than others is not my job. I leave it to you. And thank god we are far away from applying the so called triage. (Every pro knows that the 'real' triage is applied at any ED. It's also just a media abnormality to distort the term triage to have another shocking headline like: " COVID-19 killer! We have to apply TRIAGE! " Triage is common sense and there are clear rules for all those EDs. This is absolutely nothing special for COVID-19. Special is the abnormal focus on it. And those spots who are exhausted are exhausted at any other wave as well. It is a problem of capacity and infrastructure there and nobody really cares, especially Italy).
Constantly avoiding the issues, ducking and diving, hiding behind the meaningless numbers, ignoring all those numbers that do not fit the guru's vision - a slippery customer.... Well, it shows a lot.... Namely, that you are - for various reasons - trying desperately to avoid acknowledging that C-19 kills, maims, its long term effects are unknown, we are dancing in the dark, in a minefield, with blindfolds and yet some of us arrogantly claim they have seen the future and that instead of taking PROPER care of ourselves, of each other and fighting for such jolly good care - we should just go out as before, make money, have fun... In the process such "geniuses" do not care if they overwhelm the medical staff, who are quite literally falling to pieces in many parts of the world, thanx to such policies and attitudes! Swell!!! And then we are looking baffled when the hospitals, A&E departments are understaffed, when they are overworked, cranky, making mistakes - and frankly, wanting to leave the underpaid and undervalued service! And then what? Have you asked yourself? Will you jump in?!? Jesus Marx wept!!!
It was you asking if I know how many have died on their jobs....and by that it's your idea of meaningful / less.... That's all fine and dandy....but where was your voice at last flu 17/18 and your idea of going out 'unconcerned'? You perhaps have been 'unconcerned' because there was no abnormal focus on it? People died anyway. Now there is focus any day.....so how can ONE not be 'concerned'? Something different: There is a classic vaccine development. For those who are interested. (Might be the better way to involve t-cell responses)... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30832-X/fulltext And never forget:
You really, REALLY can't see wood for the trees - or Humans behind the numbers!!! So, OK, I shall spell it out for you... "Meaningless numbers" are those which should somehow show that "it's not really a pandemic" - and guess what: IT'S BS!!! "Meaningless" are the numbers which are allegedly, in your mind, i.e. in your guru's mind, "showing" that's "it's not that bad, really", as in "we could go back to our usual jobs and enjoying life" - and guess what: it's utter BS!!! As soon as our esteemed right wing politicians do that - the whole system is close to collapse!!! Neo-liberals have utterly discredited themselves and Neo-liberalism is KAPUT! It's totally inapt, inadequate to deal with these crisis! Immediately they must reach out for the socialised medicine and all manner of other tools from "socialist" vocabulary!!! Think "New Deal" if you have a problem of squaring that with the current image of USofA. We do not need to go to EU, which acted much better than US. US has acted criminally poorly by comparison to - the USofA, some 80 or so years ago! The crux of the problem lies in "it's not true that many are 'too adversely' affected". And guess what - you really do not see Humans behind the numbers at this point! Right there, you - following your guru, whether you know it or not - have "stood up" for the likes of Trump, Bolsonaro and all the rest of them.... They work for Koch's of this world, who have barricaded themselves in, quite neatly, while their minions work on the likes of you and the legislators, to force us all "back to work".... That's the kind of "empathy" and "enlightenment" we are talking about here!!! That is what I call a real "political drivel". You regurgitating all that is - an abomination! You of all the people should have attacked this "economic push" as "ego" BS! And I don't care if one is aware of one's REAL position or not! There are some of us who can see it and we have the duty to call a spade - a spade! THE EMPEROR IS NAKED!!!! Thank f*&k he is now kicked out and hopefully soon the rest of his bad copies will follow... It only takes a quick look at places which put Humans first, not profits and "economy" and see the REAL difference. Already many analysts are pointing out that there is no economy without "Human Capital" and that recovery will depend on THAT!!! Now, imagine countries losing out in that little war - not just by the dead people but also the incapacitated or the ones which will potentially show their bad health affected by C-19 much later in life... Now, that is the economic aspect, if one is a little bit "clever" and not totally driven by greed and sociopathy! But then there is an overriding principle in politics: politicians are not running a business but a society, with all its weak, needy, incapacitated, kids, pensioners etc. etc. ALSO!!!! Here, your guru and you are failing miserably, as you just can't/won't understand that one can not run a society based on the "measure" of its strongest members! In fact, we "measure up" or we DON'T depending on how we treat our weakest and poorest!!!! Either one is empathetic or one isn't. This guru of yours and all who subscribe to it - well, all of that "political drivel" clearly is just NOT "IT"!!!! In that regard, meaningful numbers would be those which will show: -just how many are adversely affected, -how bad C-19 can be in some Humans, -how no one can possibly say "Oh, I am young and fit, I don't care", -how many young and fit people did get and couldn't get rid of long Covid, -how many can pass the disease without having any symptoms, -how many kids are affected and we do not know long term consequences, -how many teachers have died, -how many health workers have died, -how many health workers have PTSD and are on the verge of quitting the service, -how many, many more poor people die of it, -how many more minority citizens get affected (both being pushed overwhelmingly into "front line services", thereby being much more exposed to C-19) ...and one could go on and on.... But what's the point?!? Those who have the ears to hear will hear - but those who dug a deep, deep chasm for themselves, betting on Koch and Trump.... oh, dear....
Robert Reich "If we can afford a $740,000,000,000 military budget, we can surely afford to pay people to stay home to contain Covid."
Political decisions and restrictions about COVID-19 are always made relating to economy and structure. By that our society gets classified, the so called system-relevant 'people' and those who are not. By doing that nobody of the politicians has a look about how we treat the 'weakest and poorest'. There are people who have jobs which allow home-office, others who cannot have to go 'out' to work. They take a higher risk to get infected per se. Each leader of a company classifies system-relevant departments. The goal is to economically survive. When your job has been classified as system-relevant then you have actually to do what the management claims. My latest project to work out has been:" Can we still offer this year our contribution to train young people in a lab and guarantee a concept of hygiene where we can say Yes we can, with good conscience. It is IMPORTANT to educate! It is ALWAYS about to decide which structures are 'relevant' and have to work despite of the pandemic. You are trying to sell your idea as more empathic, but in fact you have 'just' another idea of classification on paper which seems to be more social. And by that you declare 'economy' as being a place where all those soulless capitalists have their playground to satisfy greed. You start over and over again with your stance on USA, Neo-liberalism and gurus. No, economy is by far more important. And it is insane to lockdown branches which have already invested in a proper working concept of hygiene with evidently no infection paths. We have to find ways where we can keep them running. We need to find a 'normality' with the pandemic. Their waves won't disappear anytime soon. If your ideas would have been realized all (to lockdown and wait for the next wave, the wave after it and...until the privileged ones get their vaccine) , you would cause mass unemployment and by that an accelerating downwards spiral of government debt. The unemployment at certain branches then itself causes more and more problems and tensions in the society.
Look around you. See the numbers of people who are dying, Germany included. See the rest of numbers I mentioned. Get out of your guru's mind a bit more. Jeez....
Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55121602 The UK would be making a "terrible mistake" to relax Covid measures just months before vaccines are expected to take effect, a leading scientist said. Prof Peter Openshaw, a government adviser, said the nation should not "take the brakes off" at this stage "when the end is in sight". He said infection rates, numbers in hospital and deaths were all too high. But he said recent trial results showed "for sure that this is a virus we can defeat with vaccination". Prof Openshaw, a member of the government's Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (Sage) who works at Imperial College London, told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show: "We scientists are very concerned indeed about relaxation of precautions at this stage. "The rates are still too high, there's too many cases coming into hospitals, too many people dying." England's lockdown is ending this week, when it will enter a three-tier system of restrictions. Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the tier system would be given an expiry date of 3 February. Elsewhere in the UK, Scotland is using a five-level system of restrictions while Northern Ireland has begun a two-week circuit-breaker lockdown. In Wales, the hospitality industry is due to be placed under stricter rules - not yet finalised - from 4 December. Prof Openshaw said: "If we take the brakes off at this stage, just when the end is in sight, I think we would be making a huge mistake." He said it was "extremely difficult" to decide on the right measures against the virus but said he thought it was important to "keep this under control and just behave very, very sensibly". "We've all sacrificed so much, everyone has sacrificed enormously in order to get the transmission rate down. With only a few months to go until vaccines start to have an effect I think it would just be a terrible mistake," the professor said. He welcomed the initial data published showing several vaccines had high levels of effectiveness at preventing infections. "Several trials are reporting very good efficacy and that I think means for sure that is a virus we can defeat with vaccination," he said. Prof Openshaw said more data was needed to explain why the Oxford vaccine showed different levels of effectiveness in one part of the trial, in which volunteers were mistakenly given a half-dose followed by a full dose later. The lower initial dose resulted in a 90% effectiveness rate among a smaller sample of volunteers aged under 55, while the intended regime of two full doses was 62% effective. But he said: "I would personally be happy to have any vaccine that's been through the regulatory scrutiny that these trials are currently undergoing. "If my GP rings me and says I've got an approved vaccine, I really don't care which one it is."
This is a great post-lockdown study. Thanks for that. 9,899,828 Participants!!! Re-positive rate 0.31%, but all asymptomatic and non-virulent. Only 300 positives, but all asymptomatic AND non-virulent! And that without any vaccination. An antibody recheck (both IgM and IgG): Negative at 36.7%. I concur! The most impressive result in this study is: There are 300 positives (asymptomatic) but ZERO are virulent, means no danger to infect others. 300:Zero! This impressively underlines that COVID-19 isn't just a positive PCR count! For a proper diagnostic there have to be symptoms of COVID-19 and to confirm the illness the PCR test and never the test alone! The assessment I made that it becomes a common-cold virus -a new brother- is shared here as well.
This is the most nice covid news I heard lately and the same times infuriates me cause non- corrupt scientists/doctors have been claiming since the beginning. Damn, the elitist always knew this yet they imposed the mask wearing, even in my f bathroom.