Coronavirus | Discussion

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Deleted member 1254778, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
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    Streeck on the corona strategy

    "Advises against everyone useing FFP2 masks"

    FFP2 masks are considered the new standard in the fight against corona. The virologist Hendrik Streeck explains why he thinks little of the general obligation that has now been imposed and why Germany as a whole needs a Plan B.

    https://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/video...-jeder-FFP2-Masken-nutzt-article22320562.html
     
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Comedians here in the UK were taking the piss out of Tesco's superstore, as they had a slogan "Every little helps", alluding to its slightly lower prices than other similar superstores...

    So, naturally, if you're gonna do that, they were gonna say this: "Every Lidl helps!" :p

    Tah-daaaahhhh!!!! There's saving tons of work and paper... :D
     
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Or slightly less humorously...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

    Covid coughing study suggests NHS staff at far greater risk than thought
    Exclusive: Health service urged to rethink safety for frontline staff and provide better PPE and ventilation

    [​IMG]

    A member of intensive care staff, is ‘fit-tested’ for an FFP3 mask. There are now demands for anyone caring for a Covid-19 patient to have one. Photograph: Jonny Weeks/The Guardian
    "The NHS has been urged to rethink safety for thousands of frontline staff after new research suggested that Covid patients’ coughing is putting them at far greater risk of catching the virus than previously thought.

    The study found that coughing generated at least 10 times more infectious “aerosol” particles than speaking or breathing – which could explain why so many NHS staff have fallen ill during the pandemic.

    The research has led to fresh demands that anyone caring for someone with Covid-19, or suspected Covid-19, should be provided with the most protective equipment – including FFP3 respirator masks – and that hospital ventilation should be improved.

    Health workers are up to four times more likely to contract coronavirus than the general population, with infection rates among those on general hospital wards approximately double those of intensive care unit (ICU) staff – who do have access to the most protective PPE."

    Oh and look at this...

    Covid-19 in the UK
    Mar
    Daily cases
    19,202 [​IMG]
    -6,106 vs last week
    Daily deaths
    1,322
    Total deaths
    109,335

    Vaccination rollout
    Dec
    Daily vaccinations
    374,756 [​IMG]
    +63,696 vs last week
    Total received first dose
    15.0%
    Cases, deaths and first dose vaccination data as published 3 Feb 2021. Weekly change shows difference from 7 days ago. Data: data.gov.uk
     
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  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1964 gorski, Feb 4, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    Oh, I don't know, Yen - I don't wanna pick a fight but I think this has to be said...

    Haven't you been saying for a long time, since you discovered that guru of yours - who was saying that it's nothing, much less then a flu and all the other sweet nothings - that we should go back to business as usual etc. etc. and that, in other words, we'd get herd immunity quickly, that maybe we already have it, because tests are not precise, bad counting, not reporting etc.

    Moreover, you were pinning your hopes of triple immunity Humans have...

    And now he is a bulls**ter?

    How so?

    Why not? We have flue jabs and whatnot? Haven't you understood that we can - once we put our resources to task and especially if we are collaborating properly, as Humanity - create solutions to such problems?!? Haven't you yet understood that Humans are creative, have imagination, that we are pro-active, that we can eradicate some diseases etc.?!? In other words, suffering is NOT on our menu as a high priority of cleansing before next reincarnation...???
     
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  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Except that the new UK variant seems to be 30% more deadly!

    Besides, this "thinking" is utterly illogical!!! FCOL...

    If the virus is not aware - it could do precisely that! Make itself so deadly - it kills all its hosts and therefore stops itself from being.

    And even if it were somehow conscious - look at us - it could still do something suicidal...

    What you state here is a usual, uncritical, badly teleologically misunderstood socio-Darwinism, of the kind which comedians pick apart in 5 minutes...
     
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  6. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    Jesus ;):eek:
     
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  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #1967 Yen, Feb 4, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
    I have explained why. The 'only' reason why I called him bulls**tter was to have hope on something that cannot work per principle (monoclonal antibodies at a mutating target) Pure Biology, nothing more.
    (But it's not 'lost'. You need to redesign the antibodies again and again. It's just an ineffective way.)


    Also only a plain statement, nothing more to read in. "It's not clear yet if vaccines can stop the pandemic". Is it?
    If you want to know what I mean google for Peter Doshi and read his BMJ articles for instance: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/0...ccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/



    No it's not. It's based on epidemiology. Here again. No emotions in it.
    Study this (OK not yet peer-reviewed): https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covi..._and_severity_of_VOC_202012_01_in_England.pdf

    And: https://virological.org/t/prelimina...defined-by-a-novel-set-of-spike-mutations/563

    And: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cumbria-55416565

    A virus's 'evolution' is going that way. There might be a temporarily increase but long term it's that way. I even posted an example OC-43.

    Or just count me to those: "COVID-19: Scientists cast doubt over claim UK variant is more deadly"


    TBH The Brazilian P1 variant is more 'advanced' and hence more of a concern.
     
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  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Yes, that's right. I posted MERS as example. (Flu H7N9 is similar, high mortality, low infection rate)...

    Remember: A virus needs a host for reproduction and survival. Besides of that SARS-CoV2 can 'hide' in animals as seen (minks).
    A virus has to be considered as 'thing' and mutations as random changes. The basic principle that is working here is probability / trial and error by randomness.

    In an infected host there are lots of mutations. Most of them are of that bad quality that they get victim of our immune system. So they play no real role.
    And....only from a human perspective there is something like 'stops from being'.
    (In fact we want that it stops from being!)

    If a virus is too lethal it cannot spread (It extincts with the dead host). In other words: A highly lethal virus is made to extinct. (Only in Hollywood movies there can be highly lethal and highly contagious).

    The important bit is that contagion and lethality are inversely proportional.
    Since anybody is reporting a huge increase in infection rate (there seems to be consensus) I think SARS-CoV2's 'goal' is NOT 'suicide'....it 'wants' to survive.

    Let's see...but I think the UK variant has a similar fatality rate.
     
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  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
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  10. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1971 gorski, Feb 4, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    Yeah, Yen, one moment you are with established scientists, the next you're with "doubters", then back with the "establishment": "There is no conclusive evidence that..." yet... Sure, we know how that works... It's just that we, in the UK have had huge numbers of excess deaths lately and - what? Not related? Yeah, right... They knew about it at least since September/October...

    You said: "The important bit is that contagion and lethality are inversely proportional." Well, if you claim there are lots of mutations, why is it unthinkable that one or more could combine into both such characteristics? Make your mind up - if there is such a thing as random changes/mutations and lots of them... Especially if you claim that a "very lethal virus is made to become extinct" and a virus mutates a lot, which means that such a mutation is possible... In other words, stop jumping into your own stomach.

    The whole story with you is that you keep moving the goalposts: one moment you claim we are probably already reaching herd immunity, then the reality ABSOLUTELY DENOUNCES any such possibility and you simply ignore you were claiming all this nonsense and just keep wondering and wandering as if nothing has happened... You're adrift, m8.... Lost!
     
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  12. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #1972 case-sensitive, Feb 4, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
    That post has no facts in it . No references . No rational argunment . Its just pure trump / qanon conspiracy theory rhetoric of the lowest possible level .
     
  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    I don't expect you to know anything about method, consistency, coherence and logic, so no surprise there....
     
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  14. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    If only there ever was a complete agreement in science, politics - or me, for that matter... :p :D :p
     
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  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1976 gorski, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-coronavirus-variants-deadly.html

    So, let's think for a bit, shall we: if it is more transmissible and we see it by a dramatic rise in cases, then why not infer that a dramatic rise in excess deaths is also intimately connected to this strain?

    At the moment we have no conclusive evidence either way but it is reasonable to assume that it would be wise to ground your arse and not travel, work from home, wear mask etc. etc. Reasons why Covid-19 variant could kill more people are uncertain It’s not yet clear why new Covid-19 variants may have a higher lethality, but “there is no new way to deal with it,” and we need to adhere to existing measures in order to control its spread, says Professor Deenan Pillay (UCL Infection & Immunity). (25 January 2021)

    Because, for instance Lancet warns: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00005-9/fulltext

    As I reported here, the numbers were considerably worse than Lancet mentions, given the date of publication - more than 1700 excess deaths in a single day etc. etc.

    So, it is reasonable to assume that the new variant could very well be both more infectious and more deadly...

    Btw:

    P.S. Here is a pearl: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/feb...se-provide-critical-advice-and-expert-comment

    :D :p :D

    P.P.S. Covid-19 impact extends beyond fatalities A study which looks at the long-term impacts of Covid-19 is important because “Covid is about so much more than death,” and many people suffer from long-term effects of the virus, says Professor Christina Pagel (UCL Mathematics). (18 January 2021) Read: Mail Online, More: Telegraph (£), Mirror, Metro, Wales Online

    P.P.P.S. The impact of Covid-19 on intensive care wards Professor Hugh Montgomery (UCL Medicine) gives an overview of intensive care wards, warning that the levels of sickness are far in excess of what is normal for this time of year, with a huge psychological strain on hospital workers. (18 January 2021) Listen: BBC World Service Radio’s ‘Weekend’ (from 13 mins)

    P.P.P.P.S. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ew-strain-of-coronavirus-what-you-should-know

    Could a new COVID-19 variant affect children more frequently than earlier strains?

    Ray says that although experts in areas where the new strain is appearing have found an increased number of cases in children, he notes that the data show that kids are being infected by old variants, as well as the new ones. “There is no convincing evidence that any of the variants has special propensity to infect or cause disease in children. We need to be vigilant in monitoring such shifts, but we can only speculate at this point,” he says.

    ....and more.... https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-uk-variant-pandemic-spread
     
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  17. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    How it is possible anyone could believe such "scientific" crap. I can't believe this craziness, no similar event or pandemic has emerged before in human history. This all scientific crap is there to justify all measures. This is all planned. Damn.
     
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yeah, right, sure.... Errmmm... how can anyone believe this "scientific crap"? Oh, dear... Don't know... look through the window, read some elementary news, see a news channel?

    This sort of thing jumps out:

    'People are dying at hospital doors': the Brazilian volunteer delivering oxygen to Manaus – video



    When Thalita Rocha's mother-in-law died due to a lack of available oxygen on a Manaus hospital's Covid ward, she vowed to raise money to deliver oxygen tanks and other lifesaving equipment to the Amazonian city's homes. Jair Bolsonaro's coronavirus policies have led to more than 226,000 deaths in Brazil, and as anger rises on the streets and protesters call for his impeachment, Rocha and other volunteers drive around Manaus offering medical kit and hope

    Unbelievable? I feel your pain, brother...
     
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  19. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Alright let's pretend this is real (in my own experience deaths by covid are not happening like media is propagating, I asked in my sector and the contiguous but no one has even caught the virus) why is this happening, why so many suffering, living in this epoch of great scientific medical advances, what's going on, why isn't ivermectin flooding drugstores, hospitals?
     
  20. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    ;):thinking:
     
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