"De-Americanizing the World" a must, says Chomsky...

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by gorski, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. rantanamo

    rantanamo MDL Novice

    Apr 9, 2014
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    The problem with a thread like this is there is too much nationalism and talk of some American system or America as if there is one thing. You're talking about capitalism, a system with no border that people and governments are participating in. Americanism is a thing viewed from the eyes of people who are nationalistic in their own right and don't realize what they are dealing with. There is no failing U.S. Civilization. If anything, the "civilization" within the US is becoming more stable, more educated, less crime ridden. The economic system run by corporations is just another deal. Its not something the Chinese govt can just take over, because its something they participate in. Even with their influence they will find there are things that don't work as well when theory is applied vs the real world and they will go back to what works. Its an ever changing virus that can't be contained and molded. You want to beat it, you have to regulate everything and take away any efficiency that it has. That might mean harmony for much of the world, but its vacuum will be filled with another greedy system.

    In other words, get off the high horse. Someone feels the same way about your system as you do about anothers'
     
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    What a load of utterly, elementary uninformed nonsense!!! (Let alone uneducated nonsense!)

    There are - as clearly mentioned - different models of capitalism and so on...

    But don't let that stop you ranting away...:rolleyes::p:biggrin::D
     
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  3. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
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    Any anti American sentiment that may be felt or expressed here should be checked with the very real historical fact that this melting pot has it's roots in Europe and every other country on the planet ..

    Some reading to shine a light on the international rather than solely American problem at hand .. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/19/world-wealth-oxfam_n_6499798.html

    @rantanamo
    Read these articles before you comment on stability ..
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/child-poverty-us_n_6054958.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/preschool-students-poverty_n_5680737.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-j-carter/why-arent-low-income-stud_b_2909180.html
     
  4. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    @rantanamo; i sincerely think there is no problem; no system; by nature water flows to the lowest point, inevitably. we cannot be all nationalists, we can call it an american world, of course, but the admiration for profit knows no borders. it is like water.. very predictable.. ;) so who am i to tell my fellow men to look at the wicked world as i do? :D
     
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  5. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Who cares about Nationality, I'm against borders. I should be able to go anywhere I want without having to pass thru immigration. Who the hell came up with this idea of borders should be shot.
     
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  6. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight MDL Senior Member

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Wow, I am really surprised they let this thread go on MDL, with that being said.......

    I am an American and proud of it, I proudly served my country during Desert Storm and would do it all over again, just like my father during the Vietnam conflict and my Grandfather in WWII.
    Do I agree with my counties government and policies all of the time? certainly not.
    Do I think my government lies to me, they sure do on a daily basis, but as an American I am ALLOWED to voice my opinion as we always do, we don't win every battle but we do win some, BUT you know what ....it's the best, s**ttiest, place to live on the planet.

    All of these other countries condemn capitolism, you condemn it becuse you cannot have it much less understand it.

    You condemn the U.S for protecting it's intrests in the world, just as any country that has that capability would, you condemn us for protecting ourselves and you condemn us for protecting you, YET when we leave to let you govern yourselves AFTER protecting you, you beg us to stay because the fact of the matter is that you cannot defend yourselves. It's probably safe to say more Americans have died defending soil in Europe / Asia/ and the middle east then have died defending their own home soil. We come to fight side by side with you because YOU ASK US TO, only to watch you run while we stand the ground and fight for YOU. Most that point fingers here and on other forums do not even have the intestinal fortitude to fight for their own country and beliefs but yet are the loudest in the forums.
    What we should do is pull all of our troops home for one week and just leave the world to it's own devices for a week and not do anything, the world would fall into chaos. Our ships wouldn't even get off the 38th parallel and South Korea would fall to the north imediately...... every country in the Middle East would be kicking the s**t out of Israel, India and Pakistan would be at each others throat and while all that was happening Putin's Russia would just march right on through the Balkins.

    You should take a look at your own world before condemning ours ...
    Can you speak ill about your governemnt in a public forum and not wind up in jail directly after doing so? .... I can.
    Do you have the freedom to travel to wherever you want whenever you want? ..... I can.
    Do you have the freedom to surf the net unrestricted (within reason) without constant uses of vpns and such to navigate blocked sites .... I do.
    Can you work everyday and earn a weekly paycheck that allows you to support your family without falling into poverty? .... I can.
    Can you go to sleep at night without the fear of waking up the next day and your country be under military rule, a coup or over run by another country? .... I can, thankfully to the blanket of protection that our Military provides us Americans.

    If you have answered no to any of the above and the thousands more I can throw at you then you need not be here condemning me and my nation because you have more problems within your own that needs to be addressed. Stop coveting and condemning what I have and take care of your own backyard.

    There is no "De-Americanizing" anything because it is you who wants to be like me, and because you can't you condemn me. Do you not understand that if the three major economies on this planet fell tomorrow you would all starve?
    We (the major economies) keep the balance, without us the rest of the world would just fall into chaos.

    My President is just that ..... a President, a figure head, he is only one man, don't judge a whole society because of one mans stupidity because you know what? there will be another asshole right behind him when he I is done, gone and out of office, it doesn't mean that I put him there and gave him permission to make some of the idiotic decisions that he has made or will make.
     
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  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    What a fool you are, Dark Knight: Chomsky is an American! A very true American! The best of America is in him!

    Your sad attempt at defending the indefensible ("do not try to criticise us!") is totally un-American!!!

    I am a serious admirer of American (and French) Revolution, what it brought to the world.

    Fast forward: TODAY, the US is a s**tty place on so many levels one really doesn't wanna count. Instead, we point to less s**tty places, like Scandinavian countries and some other places in EU and Americas (like Canada).

    Got it now?
     
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  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    You claim personal freedom to voice your opinion and are surprised 'they' let this go on MDL???

    It would be nice to get an opinion from yourself and not from your ego next time. It would turn it into a more factual and less reactionary and distorted view.
    chauvinism = the belief in a superiority of the own nation
    And that creates the (self made) justification to act as world police.

    Yes, please...best forever. Was there ever really a change to the better, except to realize some own interests?
    There is no consciousness of own guilt.
     
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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    If ever there was a proof that the US has gone do-lally - there he is, the embodiment of everything "Right" (read WRONG!!!) about the US!!!:laie:

    (If only it weren't :puke::hummer:)
     
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  10. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight MDL Senior Member

    Jul 14, 2013
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    :roflmao::roflmao:

    Ok Igor .... LMAO! BTW how are those sanctions working out for you guys over in Russia? :roflmao:
    Give it a couple more years and you guys will be waiting on lines a mile long just to buy one roll of toilet paper that will cost you a weeks pay because YOUR "President" could not give two s**ts about it's own people and would rather re consume what formerly broke away....... because Russia was just such a great place to live.
    Things are getting so bad in Russia even Cuba is re establishing relations with the U.S., just something else breaking away from Mother Russia, but ..... Russia is such a great place!? Once again Cuba will become the paradise it once was and not the desolate wasteland that your country created.

    Look at us right now my friend, at this moment in time the U.S. has pretty much the entire world at it's side .... look around you.... who stands with Russia? .... pretty much no one and anyone who does dares not speak up, why? because America defends those who cannot defend themselves and this really pisses Putin off, it pisses Putin off that he has NATO in his own backyard and cannot reclaim what was formerly the USSR without starting a war. It pisses Putin off that he cannot go to ANY sumit without being shunned and having the Ukraine shoved up his ass .... but Russia is such a great place.
    Its only a matter of time until the iron curtain goes back up and gulags are reinstated.
    Like I said, clean up your own backyard.
    Oh and just so you know .... Canada is pretty much the U.S. just with a different flag.
     
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  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Perhaps we are making an assumption or three here...

    -he is intelligent
    -he is here in good faith
    -he is not just an idiot red-neck trolling
     
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  12. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
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    The Achilles heel (greatest vulnerability) is it's blind patriotism or it's belief in "American exceptionalism" .. There are American corporations and now multinational corporations that feed this belief continuously with media campaigns and word smiths that craft a result that only supports their profits yet the word smiths have cloaked their message in a way to give it some moral or humanitarian high ground to make it palatable to the masses ..

    It is my opinion that there is not a single ego which celebrates some sort of national pride that has clean hands when we look at the current global dilemma .. Make no mistake as you sit at your table each day for your evening meal and there is no place for world peace there you are part of the problem ..

    I too served my country during a time of war however this gives me nothing to be proud of .. I know now that there is not a single Army in the world which does not have as a recruitment tool the exploitation of the young, needy, and most impressionable .. There is no armed nation that should have anything to be proud of for this very reason ..

    For my fellow Americans I encourage you to read this ..
     
  13. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Ahem ... might I ask Dark Knight a serious question.
    Forget about all the oil stealing agendas, who the hell asked the USA to police the world ?
     
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  14. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    The richest 1% ;)
     
  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Who is Igor?:rolleyes:
    Your post sounds like somebody who is reflecting a fixed idea and is stuck in old enemy stereotypes.
    "Canada is pretty much the U.S. just with a different flag" just adds some ignorance to it...
     
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  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Indeed - just put him on ignore... ;) :)
     
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  17. dareckibmw

    dareckibmw MDL Expert

    Jun 16, 2009
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    I feel so embarrassed sometimes ... :eek: :rolleyes:
     
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  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Now, should we get angry and do something about all this ("de-americanise the world")?!? Just read and weep...[FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]https://twitter.com/Snowden?t=1&cn=...6630c4ca68695&uid=917878446&nid=244 272699405[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]US, of course, follows the UK Gov "lead":[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]And the German SS (security Service :D ) is not to be outdone... :rolleyes:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Edward Snowden retweeted netzpolitik ( https://twitter.com/netzpolitik/status/803538156872224768 ):[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    Yen, how right you were!!! :g:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]P.S. Just how crude is the suppression in the "land of the free", have a look:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]http://motherboard.vice.com/read/th...-zone-to-suppress-journalism-at-standing-rock[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The Government Is Using a No Fly Zone to Suppress Journalism At Standing Rock

    ARRGGHHHH!!!!!
    :mad::mad::mad:[/FONT]
     
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  19. ausernamenoonehas

    ausernamenoonehas MDL Member

    Aug 2, 2015
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  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    #120 gorski, Dec 4, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    (OP)
    BS, Bat!

    No one values US revolution achievements here more than me! Expressis verbis in this thread, too!!!

    But in your mind it all seems a wee bit of balkanically tribal, as in "us or them", zero-sum game - which is telling of you...

    The best American mind (Chomsky) at the moment (and for some time) is talking about the dire need of being critically minded and taking publicly about that which one is most familiar and closest to, as his duty and right.

    Other critically minded thinkers with spine, in other countries, ought to do the same and many, many do take the same course of action, in politically (and otherwise) much more difficult environment to that of USofA - which freedom is one of the achievements of Modernity and democracy - but you seem to have a "better" view on these issues...:rolleyes:

    EDIT: Ausernamenoonhas is trawling in the mud, as always, using sad and terrible personal tragedies to further his hatred and prejudices. Ignore his little "crusade", it's of the same type from which nasty characters from "the other side" are campaigning against "terrible West (as a whole)", using nasty cases on "this side" to "build their case" against the "Devil that lives in the Western World", the infidels, the lot of them...:rolleyes:
     
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