[DISCUSSION] Windows 10 Enterprise/IoT Enterprise (N) LTSC 2021

Imo everybody's right to tweak the OS to their believe is that Paranoia?

 

The LTSC (in my case LTSC 2019) is chosen to have the same operating system for 10 years always updated.

 

Not really what?

Explain what a LTSB-N +MFP supposedly miss over a plain LTSB

 

Many people think that just a few codecs are missing, which is not true. Many other things related to network streaming are missing as well.

So the initial guess that LAV codecs are enough for everything is not correct, but that is not a fault of a random user, that's is the usual MS way to fight the EU enforcements.

That said smaller images with less crap are very welcome in a number of situations

LTSC is not just the packages installed, is also the product policy, there is nothing wrong on installing the store just to grab a single "square" program.

 

Read what you link.

They talk about N version in general, not LTSC N, and, to summarize, they explain that you will miss some "Metro" crap, which obviously is something that

#1 doesn't affects LTSC

#2 practically doesn't affect any other version unless you are one of the two person who used the mixed reality things

 

Practical examples: Crossfire (CS-GO copy-cat), had issues with audio no matter what you did to fix it in N editions (including LTSC N 2019). Or mp3 player / phone error out on PC connection despite MTP support should be generic. Or BT audio (made in china ofc). Or intel wireless display (older implementation).
It's probably less of an issue now with modern builds, but why take a chance? because it's 300MB-XXX or so less size? You're gonna debloat it anyway.
The only reason to run a N edition is license constrains. At least in Europe OEM N editions are/were a bit cheaper so it's more common.

 

Don't you remember when Microsoft greased the NL government and they started "cracking down on piracy" and everybody was running to get a XP oem disk for cheap? that was the N version at 110 - 130 guilder - I think, if not, euros. vs 150+
Then the trend slowed down with 7 because the price difference was less.

 

Well, all the big players refused to preinstall N editions and that's why shops did not have it. But drive couple miles to "industrial area", and could find a (legit) microsoft partner office selling bulk oem disks.

 

Anyone else having a problem with KB5012599?
I've tried both the normal MS update and the MSU. I've even shut down crypto services and renamed catroot2 and softwaredistribution to try to reset the process in case it was getting hung up on something.

 

So you are telling that a release w/o multimedia components has problems with multimedia features?

That's really unexpected !

Yea I go to debloat, you go to debloat, but what about the average Joe? (intended broadly, that include sysadmins in hurry who need a small VM or situation like that where using a custom image is not practical, because time constraints etc...)

But don't get me wrong, I'm not a N supporter, I'm just not comfortable when someone dissuade newbies from trying it, using false/partial arguments.

 

It's precisely the newbies that must be dissuaded! because they won't be able to overcome even the issues that can be overcome.
And the big boys OEMs are still not fans of N for practical reasons - those newbies are gonna complain when feature x does not work! specially when it's part of the motherboard utilities and drivers.
What false/partial arguments?! the sysadmins in hurry? And how small? enough to warrant a likely reinstall with the proper non N when some issue arises?
Yes, there's zero reason to be a N supporter. I'm not even a big LTS* supporter for pretty much the same reasons - it's far from perfect and has shortcomings when it comes to windows desktop usage over time.
Look no further than the past LTS* discussions and how quickly everybody jumps to the newest.
For personal usage, willing to put constant effort? now that's something else entirely. I've seen you in the reconstruction thread, I know you're capable!

 

Dissuading != explaining or suggesting.

Aside that everyone should have his share of pain to learn to drive a bicycle. Leaning involves both listening from more experience people AND also doing something wrong.

I did stupid or debatable things when I started, you did as well, I'm sure. It's natural. it's normal.

Not sure what you do for living, but keep in mind that not every sysadmin works h24 for a big corporation, here most companies are medium, small or very small, most of them don't have a full time jobs, because not needed, because they can't afford a full time technician, or both. Most companies calls once a week or once a month, usually to solve an emergency. So, yes being in hurry is the norm, not the exception.

Aside that an in place upgrade, nowadays involves few minutes, and assuming you discover that a multimedia feature is needed to your VM who runs (say) a db server you can enable the MFP and magically, in 2 minutes, your N install becomes equal to a standard one. So where's the problem?

No, there may be limited scenarios to use N versions, but for sure there is zero reason to be a N hater.

Perhaps it's not just matter of spared ram and storage, it's also matter of reduced attack surface.

Being young and attracted by the novelty, no matter if good or harmful, may look stupid, but is also the seed of the evolution. Works this way not just for humans, but also for most animals, I'm sure you were the same when you were a teenager. You did your share of stupid things (and in the meantime you learned a lot of things ).

Yep, I'm capable (I did my share of stupid things as well, but was mostly during the past millennium )

 

So you are actually quite the N fan, seeing how you write strong words like "N hater" to describe what has been really grounded reasons with practical examples where N versions fall flat.
Counter arguments? Size? Do show a comparison. "MFP and magically, in 2 minutes, your N install becomes equal to a standard one"? Factually wrong, it does not become equal as evidenced by many remaining issues.
You've used stupid a lot, with direct parallel to what I might have done. I got news for you: I almost never consciously did the stupid thing at the time
Well, except the recent catroot2 thing. Note to self: If @abbodi1406 tells you to stop abusing catroot2, you should just listen!
I have seen the error of my ways while reviewing EOS Windows 10 versions - where the clearing of catroot2 supposedly brief slow down now lingers quite a lot more than in 1904x+ builds.
So I'm now reworking windows_update_refresh.bat to help more on EOS versions (with optional feature updates blocking). Yes, I still use EOS versions in various potatoes.