Absolutely, but of the other side we have Millions of Root-kit slaves on the world I did after my last visit to China ever to have something like the honor in the Asus bios No free AV-Software can find this or scann the Bios And then now with UEFI ?! haha olalala
hi all, Do we need antivirus? Good question indeed! In an ideal world, without viruses, big businesses like mcafee, norton, etc. would go broke. and good riddance to bad ullage! All they achieve is to take up half your resources,and of course they never intercept anything. In addition, they make you pay through the nose for the privilege! Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world. Criminals send us all kinds of garbage to log our passwords, or to use our machine for bot-like things. So. yes. I do use antivirus, so long as it`s free and has a small footprint. And those antivirus companies keep getting paid. In that sense they have got a vested interest to keep viruses alive, instead of weeding them out.They would only send themselves out of business if they did...
@B8 I am not using / talking about m (mobile)-TAN (ID) authentication, I am talking about an optical INTERFACE / unique chip-card to receive data. This is safe and hasn't been 'cracked' so far. There is NO BIOS virus / malware, but I see a problem with UEFI though. If you think you are right, just point to one!!! To monitor incoming and outgoing IP data / ports is the best you can do. You need a firewall and a router. Most of the PC users either are paranoid (like you, lol) and point to articles about malware / risks but never have related the potential risk to REAL conditions / situations, .......or they feel safe (have installed AV / firewall) and don't know anything about malware / how to configure a FW properly (psychological induced pseudo-safety, lol). Don't spread 'panic' when there is no reason for....have you ever encountered damage?? I guess not. There is no absolute safety you can install what you want, you never will be safe. But the chance to encounter a damage is very low, though.
@yen. you are quite right, basically. no-one here is waiting for more hoaxes. no-one in his right mind formats his hard-drive every five minutes, and no-one in his right mind feels safe just because some non-descript anti-virus/firewall is installed... and yes; damage is slight behind a router and a firewall; yes, you are quite right, basically. but if you are just an average user, and have had your machine infected, it does scare the living daylights out of you! even if you don`t use it for banking... just look at the outgoing traffic, without your consent. and you do get paranoid............ i for one can understand that.
Oh yes I can understand that, too. 2 months ago a friend has called me in the night. He rebooted his PC and a window appeared: Your copy of windows is not genuine, ident. number such as 45848DSE35535. Then some ‘impressing data’ read from the registry / ipconfig. ISP, OS version and install date….. It came with a ‘possibility’ to pay for a license key by money transfer. Also they threatened to transmit the IP to the prosecution. And they posted the corresponding laws. The page looked very professional, just like made by M$. I told him to stay cool, this is not M$ this is malware. Next day I analyzed his PC. He must have visited a site that has modified HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon Shell pointed to the malware not to Explorer.exe. He wasn’t able to log-in. At the page shown by the malware was written that he must pay the key within 48 hours to unlock his PC. He of course was shocked. I laughed about, lol. I repaired his PC then….. This is a M$ / windows problem. Windows is the most insecure OS. You need to patch it in time. If you want to avoid issues (banking) use Linux, it’s far more secure. But what’s important to me I want to add. You cannot gain security and safety by installing something. You gain security by knowledge / thinking about the potential risk. I want people to evaluate! Knowledge and awareness kill fear. Let’s start: What is stored on your PC? What happens to you if anything becomes deleted? Have you made backups? Do you use it for banking? Do you use a secure banking system? What is the worst case scenario? Could you live with it if it should become true? You should be aware of the worst case scenario. (Loss of access / all data) A worst case scenario regarding malware is basically not different to a HDD crash. (Except banking issues). Far more important than to install AV is your PC behaviour. Do not store passwords locally, use safe passwords. Delete anything cached after banking. Make backups of your data. Make an image of your clean PC right after install. Use windows update frequently. Use a free AV and a free FW at least (I recommend AVG and the Comodo firewall). Comodo isn’t just a firewall, it monitors the registry also. You may use them with default settings. ‘Sit’ behind a router. If you take these points serious then you don’t have to be paranoid or afraid. You know that even if the worst case scenario should happen, you in fact have lost nothing. Only thing is that you have to make some effort to restore the original condition of the PC. You don’t have to be an expert at this. Just think about what might happen BEFORE it really happens, that’s all. If you are more interested I suggest to read about ports / IP addresses / firewall configuration. Regarding banking, if you want to be absolutely secure. Boot your PC with a Linux CD that can access the internet with firefox browser. After you are finished, remove the CD and reboot the PC to your insecure windows. Most of my friends are not cool regarding PC security. One of them never dared to pay with credit card on his own PC, lol. I do anything, (banking, credit card payment, paypal, money transactions, even stockjobbing ….) I take care of the points I have posted here. I never had issues. I am not afraid, I don’t watch my IP traffic frequently. But it's quiet when I do nothing. Another windows problem is that there are services and apps which access the internet even though they don't need it. But I am sure I am no bot: My ports are closed, lol. Paranoid people are people with lack of awareness.
you are so right, yen, this is indeed the bane of windows, i`ve used it from w3.0 to xp sp3 , and i `ve got a [legal!] copy of 7 lying around waiting for the day i put in a new hard-drive and install it.. but safe?! as you pointed out, one has got the worst-case scenario to consider. if this is an acceptable risk to you, don`t bother with antivirus, just format when s**t hits the old fan...as it surely will, sooner or later........ but if your data lives on your system-disk, and if you can`t be bothered with backups, then you`d better protect the machine..even at the expense of half its resources... i think if more people lived by the rules you took the trouble to point out, then there would be far less misery, hoaxes, and help-needed-posts flying around! hear.hear! i take my hat off to you!
*lol there is no bios virus / malware *hahahahahaha wrong! http://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Wieder-einmal-Rootkit-im-PC-BIOS-209207.html
If you have any from of personal information on your computer, or use your computer to purchase online or do internet banking etc... I think you'd be stupid not to have a good AV with realtime protection etc (by saying 'you're stupid' I by no means mean offence to those stupid people that do so)
i just fixed a x64 windows 7 (which everyone says is immune to viruses--which is total bull, i've seen it first hand...) infection on a friend's Dell laptop and they weren't running any virus protection, got infected with a fake anti-virus that hid all their files and programs and made it impossible to log into windows. they would have never gotten this had they been using a good AV program... but at the same time, jayblock, you are right, it never seems to effect hardware, and if you really wanted to go through the trouble of doing clean installs every time an infection hit, or can fight them manually like i usually can, then there is no need for a AV program potentially. i'll always use one though, as not running one doesn't seem to be a smart thing to do, especially if you make a lot of online purchases and have numerous financial files and information stored on your machine that is always connected to the net such as me...
Read your linked 3 years old article (heise) closely and you'll notice that it is a proof of concept only. (There is no space left on the chip to write the root kit's code and every BIOS is different). The described scenario (an artificial one with a particular chip and a particular BIOS): They were able to make a root kit to write 'its code' onto the chip. No word about: Was the chip empty? What is its code? How big? Malware?? The other 'case' mentioned there was malware which has erased the BIOS. This is NO BIOS virus and it's old stuff from 1986!!! So you are exactly behaving like I have posted: Most of the PC users either are paranoid (like you, lol) and point to articles about malware / risks but never have related the potential risk to REAL conditions / situations.... I modify BIOSes since 2007. I know it better. The article is full of useless statements. It's sad people cannot recognize what's good journalism and what's not. It's clearly sensational journalism and you've fallen into the trap. Heise is known to be yellow journalism, you need far more to 'convince' me! I have deleted all the posts which are against the rules (not in English language).
I have to disagree a bit . 'Stupid' is to believe that with an AV installed you are safe. A firewall is far more important. You need your ports closed (firewall) that's all. The AV might prevent that malware such as a keylogger /trojan can install. But a firewall prevents the keylogger / trojan to do their jobs, to send data through the net. The AV might fail if the signature updates are too old. A firewall always keeps the related ports closed and detects if an app wants to send. An AV is only as good as its signature database. Better know how malware works and prevent its actions! Dangerous malware is malware that phones to somebody. (To transmit personal data). To lose local data should be no real damage. To harm it needs open ports. AVs are by far overestimated, but should be used as additional protection (freeware) only.
yen. i feel that we are repeating ourselves here. the crux of the matter is, that it takes open ports to harm, like you said. it is all about the perceived risk, as opposed to the risk in real time. and the perceived risk depends of your knowledge what the contraption we call pc is going to do when you press the power button. from the POST up. i feel you can`t blame folks for not knowing. and thus to perceive risks that are purely theoretical. like in the old german thread that you posted. i`m interested in this thread because i`ve got an absolescent machine, and i hate to see its resources taken up by some useless antivirus. but i wonder if your sound advice will convince people who lack the knowledge to evaluate such things... time to close the thread??
You're saying it is not possible, although you know exactly what is in all new BIOS enough empty space available. Then now is the question you're **** Yen the king of the BIOS rootkit or just clueless? haha
@B8 You need to argue with facts to keep up with me. Do not try to figure what I know since you are not able to. I explicitly excluded UEFI since I do not know what will be possible yet. To summarize my post #27 I can give this advice to everybody: -sit behind a router, UPnP must be disabled (UPnP can be used by programs to change security related settings) -backup your local data frequently -run windows update any time (automatic) -install a good firewall (even though most routers have one already included). I highly recommend Comodo free firewall. It protects very well with default settings already. -install an AV such as Avast or AVG. Run signature updates every time when you switch on your PC. -check your surf behavior, avoid bogus sites, enter every time the original url when banking into the browsers address bar, no redirections -clear history of the browser, do not store any passwords -use FF or google chrome, avoid IE -Install an original, unmodified copy of windows only. This should be no problem for a 'ordinary' PC user. Anyway do not forget an AV is an additional protection and not THE protection. If you are interested in more read about IP addresses and protocol / ports / port forwarding /common ports /port release / UPnP I have repaired a lot of infected PCs of some friends. I have installed a firewall and a AV and I exactly have advised what I have posted here. I am using the internet since 1993 and never had issues concerning malware. I never used paid software to protect. Norton Internet security for instance is a huge package and slows down anything, it's useless. Some companies make money with the fear of others, furthermore they feed the fear to justify their products. Recent days we cannot make our jobs without a PC. At companies we have admins who are responsible for the security of the net. At home the user is. If you know nothing about security then make the effort to gain knowledge. Ask friends about. When you learn how to work with a PC, then security related things are a must. It is not different with other things, some things just belong together.
This thread has interest to me as it was presented on a Linux forum recently. Whether or not Linux should have an AV. I choose NOT. My thoughts are anti-virus is a false sense of security. I do have a Windows7 partition that I run anti-virus, but I have never been flagged that I have a suspicious file or the like. Also in the past I have gone to a suspicious site just to wake up my AV. Sure enough it comes to life. Which tells me it does work but in the year or two that I have Windows7 installed, no virus present, or one the AV can't find. The AV constantly checks my files and updates its database daily, all to tell me nothing. Thee are several of interesting reads on the subject. Google "no anti virus" and read a few. I remember when running XP , I researched running no anti-virus. You'd be surprise, how many people don't. False sense of security. Yes. If it were secure, there wouldn't be a need for updates. And on that line, what if you got hold of one of the new virus' before your AV could detect and update it database?! ...one word of caution. Stay away from porn & crack sites
thank you for a valuable post. i can only agree, although i refuse to stay away from any site if i think it interesting.. i run avg, on xp sp3. like you said, it rarely gives a positive, and it is taking up a LOT of my resources in an old machine. however, only today i saw a request here from a guy who knew he had a virus running FOR A MONTH!! and now said he wanted to kill it... he complained that adaware did not detect it, as if that is a scanner... that guy does need a scanner, as he does not know what he is doing. [to let a virus run for a month, i ask you..] it is refreshing to me to see the opinion of someone who runs basically linux, with w7 as an also-ran. [again i can only agree, though i would personally not be found dead with linux.] but like you said. a scanner can only give you a false sense of security. [ i hardly had had a positive with avg in a year, just one or two, half of them false.] so for me, a scanner is not much good in xp, though i use it anyway. but for someone who let a virus run amok on his harddisk for a month, it is another matter..... regards, nodnar
AV? Sure, of course. Well, for us lazy ones who don't install every couple months or whatever. I think its needed so you can ... I don't know, know worry so much. I'm not exactly a "pro", so for me it's better to have than not. I went without for a while, and the end result was a rootkit, which I just recovered from. Er, I mean my computer just recovered from. Speaking of which, I need something top-of-the-line, that helps with everything. Rootkits= the suck Any suggestions, or should I just browse around the site more? Geez am I lazy. Will do so now...