Your way to argue is different to my way (I have posted). I fully respect it, though. Your way is to imagine what reincarnation means and what could be the goal and then you search for arguments against it. At 'my' way to argue.....in my life I am perceiving 'phenomenons' which I cannot understand and the theory of reincarnation or at least 'eternal soul' would be a 'suggestion'. I do not believe in reincarnation. It is of no use (as posted). Being researcher (scientific) I am a curious person , but intelligent enough to be no fool which could be involved in religious wars about. -I have not found any other facts about the 14th Dalai Lama yet. Also not about the 13 others returning. -Reincarnation is understood the way people saying: You get reincarnated or you do not get reincarnated. But this is already flawed! 'You' implies a person, an own human being. Personality, childhood, attributes, individual life, social life..... But 'that' what should be reincarnated or not is neither of them! It is 'that' what makes you being alive! I tried to illustrate that by posting 'what' is still the same when you grew up. Your body as a child is no more. All the cells and molecules have changed. There is excretion and new stuff from nutrition / foods. Cells come and die. Anyway you are here. Would you ever deny your childhood? I guess not. But your 'appearance' has completely changed. The question is 'what' remains 'all the time'. This is the way of 'my' thoughts....
Let's go a little deeper. The law of Karma. The law of Karma says if you do bad deeds in the next life you will be born like ... a cow. So what. I had a bad day and my finger standing on the red button itches. I'll squeeze it and goodbye planet, booom. Because I don't remember, it won't scare me to press the red button and commit a crime. If you do good deeds, you will be born in some paradise. So what. I don't remember anyway because it wasn't me. If you are born without memory and experience and impressions, your environment can make you either a saint or a criminal. If you suffer today and remember that you were in a candy store yesterday, it is unlikely that this information will make your present easier and vice versa. Let's go even deeper. The Tibetan Book of the Dead says that when the soul is in that intermediate state, the vacuum, then man has the knowledge of past lives. If that is true, then you know that the holes you run into are in fact the uterus, and you know that if you drink from the water, you will forget everything. That means you don't have to drink and you can always be born like a king. What more you can do in that stage, you can reach Nirvana immediately because of the great knowledge and experience you have and you are not limited by limit the organic brain, to just be born again and again that is pointless only if you want it. The only thing is that you can't use that opportunity because you don't remember anything and you can't influence it. You want to be a musician in the next life but you will be a priest. .. And such reincarnation is completely meaningless for anything .... except perhaps for some avatar who wants to come to this world and convey some message and preach his faith. So give me a break dudes Tibetans from false doctrine. It doesn't fit. For me Theurgy is the right way.
The ' evidence ' so far . 1 - No evidence has been presented . 2 - A ' news paper ' report in a right wing populist gutter journal called the daily mail wich is famous for printing idiotic storys and the low level of intelligence of its ' readers ' . Reported that two people who belive that a human lived in a fish , two of every animal on the planet lived on a wooden boat , a man fed 5000 people with one loaf of bread , turned water to wine , walked on water , his mother was a virgin , he raised people from the dead and was also raised from the dead ........ are trying to sell a book ? Did they get the 1,000,000 $ ? 3 - The alibi lama A group of unemployed people in carnival costumes announce to their victims that they're looking for a new alibi lama ...... and then go on tour from one village to another looking for a replacement ....... they decide what their test is and also if one of the candidates has passed their test . A bit like ' Dancing with the stars ' on TV . The parents have already primed their kids so that they have a chance of ' winning ' . Eventualy one of the candidates wins and after that flys around the world living in luxury getting worshiped by his victims ....... while the tibetans live in poverty . 8 questions = When he flys does he fly without an aeroplane ? Does he fly economy class or does he fly buisness class and get the free peanuts ? If he does does he take a doggy bag with him and collect the free peanuts and then later send them to the poor people in tibet ? Is he registered at the job center ? Did he get the 1,000,000 $ ....... and give it to the people ' living ' in poverty in tibet ? 4 - gautama buddha Was a prince ...... one of the unemployed criminaly rich ...... and decided that he'd go on the road with a few friends ...... because he had nothing better to do ...... and after that he ponced off his victims = Poor people with no education ......... who fed him for free ...... while he hung around all day doing what rich people do = Chilling under a banyan tree in the shade ....... while watching his victims be enslaved and exploited . Then he told his victims ....... If you do what i say and accept me and others being parasites ......... and feed me any my mates for free ........ in your next life you'll be rich !!! ........ and its OK that me and my mates are parasites because its our karma ...... because we were wonderfull in our last lives ......... and you're poor , homeless and starving because you were evil in your last lives . One of several versions of what happened to him is that after his free holiday he went back home to be a prince again . 5 - Energy cant be created or destroyed ........ but can change . Like a matchstick . It contains energy wich changes from one form to another when the match is struck . From chemical energy to heat ....... a flame wich after a few seconds goes out . It doesnt burn forever ...... or ...... twice ...... 6 - Noone has presented any scientific evidence or theoretical way that reincarnation could be possible . 7 - Everything presented so far as evidence is subjective . 8 - Buddhism IS theurgy . 9 - Buddhism , reincarnation and theurgy are ........ conspiracy theorys .
I believe reincarnation is real, there is lots of evidence. Read Return to Life by Jim B Tucker and also Your Eternal Self by R. Craig Hogan. For this reason I cannot take modern religion seriously, well any religion that comes to the conclusion that you die and go somewhere to live forever and have milk and honey and other bollocks. This separation of the human from the ordinary workings of the Universe I find to be glaringly stupid. At the end of the day everything is energy which isn't created or destroyed but changes state. Nothing mysterious or supernatural, it's just ignorance of the actual process.
> it's just ignorance of the actual process. You mean it changes but it still stays the same ? > Read Nope . Reverse logic ? Why should i read something that you've obviously missunderstood ? If not put your proof on the table and lets measure it
> Read ---- > Put your proof on the table and lets measure it < ---- Wich question and how do you know i dont understand it ? Put your proof on the table and lets measure it .
You try to evade the historical facts. They ever have found the 'new' Dalai Lama by a very rational process. The reincarnated child has to identify former objects which belonged to the former life. They even made similar objects to 'fool' the potential kid....Tenzin himself later answered several questions made by scientists.... The question is not: Do people get reincarnated? The question is: Is it possible to keep consciousness during the process which is called here 'dying'...the entire "Bardo Thodol" is about that subject. It's rather associated to science, to psychology and physics (colors, energy, wavelengths) than it would be a doctrine. The 'issue' is that we are not familiar with their culture and hence it sounds strange at first sight. And 'karma' is just another means of cause/effect principle. Nothing more and nothing less. Anything additional is fantasy created by people with a vivid mind, a mind that wants to punish / reward or to break down to anything like black and white...as if they had control about somebody / something...and there would be a live-counter that calculates bad versus good (This influence rather comes from the Christian Last Judgement and a 'Punisher / Judge'...) You claim for something that makes no sense since its negation has no evidence either. And you are confusing truth with evidence..I mean what's the point? It's about a phenomenon and a theory, you'd have to falsify it. Until then the theory of reincarnation can explain phenomenons such as former lives (former appearances)...and body / soul dualism, or matter / spirit dualism or simply....something that changes all time and something that remains all time dualism)... I don't think you are qualified to make such a statement. I mean you are classifying 'Buddhism' within one sentence...something that has a history for more than 2500 years...I bet you even do not know the basics about. Theravada / Mahayana Eightfold path / four noble truths etc etc.. I am sorry people determining it within one sentence are losing any qualification by prejudices and the next question comes up...would you be open-minded enough that you would be able to recognize the truth about? I guess not. Your bias avoids it. This is not scientific at all. Don't get me wrong. It's nothing personal. But with your idea to steadfastly refuse it you lose an open-minded attitude and you probably miss the truth about. Even Buddhism itself is more of science. I mean why should be anything black (reincarnation is not real) or white (reincarnation is real)? I myself can leave it 'grey'...saying I don't know this or that, because I don't have an (better) explanation. Buddhism is complex and the "Bardo Thodol" as well. I never would dare to judge about them by one sentence.
So what your saying is ? ...... the alibi lama is a very evil person ...... because he knows something is a fact and doesnt prove it ...... and get the 1,000,000 $ ...... while the majority of tibetans live in ppoverty and could be helped with that 1.000.000 $ .
guy monks dont have bank accounts the only thing the own in this world is their robes material things mean nothing to them.
Who ever talked about money and proof? As if truth could be ever rewarded by money?!? And it should be meaningful to a monk? The Tibetan culture has been destroyed by the Chinese decades ago. At least they tried to... The 14th Dalai Lama had to escape. He's living in exile. Dharamsala (India). And AFAIK the ex-Tibetans now Chinese there do not starve. What's this all about if reincarnation is true or not? There are historical facts which support his reincarnation. Either you have to disprove them or you have to find another explanation for them. No excuses. And you confuse truth with evidence. Truth is true regardless if your personal claim for evidence is fulfilled or not. Truth does not 'become' true if......it is already the way it is. You actually want to know the truth, but instead of you claim for an evidence. By that you decide what is accepted as such and what not. But to make a proper decision you would have to know the truth already. Can't you see the senselessness? The only thing that is left is: You don't accept reincarnation. And that is fine. I am not here to convince. I don't know the truth about either. But it rather unites phenomenons than it divides. It can unite a basic dualism IMHO body/soul matter/ spirit matter/ energy appearance/consciousness "So what your saying is ? ." Finally my opinion only.
I think that it would be better if your ' answers ' to my posts would have something to do with what i've written ........ a conversation ...... and not just a selbstgefaelig monolog with you talking to yourself in a circle wank ' conversation ' . Thanks