Do you think a wall on the border with Mexico can stop the immigrants?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Jan 26, 2017.

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Will the wall be effective against illegal immigrants?

  1. Yes, the wall will be largely effective

    15 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. It will only have a small effect not worth the cost

    18 vote(s)
    36.0%
  3. No, it will be a monumental failure

    17 vote(s)
    34.0%
  1. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

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    As Trump's intended wall has been compared to the Berlin wall, I wish to point out that the Berlin wall was 100 km long and heavily guarded. For Trump’s 3000 km wall to be equally heavily guarded, it would cost an awful lot.
     
  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    'They'.. are millions of concerned people around the world.
    It was Trump who referred to Obama's foreign politics to justify his. Not the media who are overdoing what Trump did.

    It was no decree and it was no ban, but an obstacle Iraqis still could get visa. AFAIK it was because of fingerprints of an Iraqi on a bomb or something and not because of discriminating against people because of faith and religion. The tightening was purely terrorism related, understandable and hence no issue there...
     
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  3. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Do you think U.S. border guards will shoot to kill anybody attempting to cross illegally? Like the Berlin wall, do you believe their will be towers with machine guns ready to fire at the first object to move?
    Or will U.S. border patrols slap them the wrists, tell them not to do that again and send them back to Mexico?
     
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  4. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    #84 Michaela Joy, Jan 31, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    @Joe C: We both know the answer to that, and we also know that those with an agenda were not placated.

    This video should be viewed with an open mind. -This- was what the American people were expected to vote into the most powerful office in the world.

     
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  5. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

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    if they really want to stop illegals from sneaking across the border charge Mexico a fee for returning them , if they refuse to pay create a business tax on imports for not paying it and keep raising the tax until they cant sell anything in this country ! sooner or later they will take of it them selves ! a wall is a challenge and somebody will find a way thru it or under it, another way is to fine business that hire them, make the fine high enough to cause a loss in profits , Mexico is responsible for its poor not the u.s. why is it the us is bad because they try to stop illegals from entering ,
     
  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    One becomes illegal when entering without permission/visa...
    Speaking of stopping illegals sounds as stigmatizing the Mexicans. One becomes illegal when entering without permission/visa and not before.

    Better would be to figure why there are Mexicans immigrating and what really is 'bad' when they do it and what can be bilaterally done to moderate it.

    Humankind is growing and there are 'better' places as somewhere else....mass migration will play a major role in the word's future. Walls will not stop it.
     
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  7. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Yes, there are many people that enter the U.S. that are not Mexican nationality, Many are from Central and South America too. They migrate to the U.S. to get a better life style, Health insurance and an income that is better than one they could get in their own country. Since these people are illegal, they are not registered, they pay no taxes. Many also send what little they do earn back to their families in their home country. That put's a strain on the U.S. economy. If some of these people get drunk and end up getting arrested, that also put's a strain on the U.S. society as a whole. The wall will not stop anybody that seriously wants to get in, but it will be a deterrent to those that are looking for an easy path.

    Why doe the Mexican govt not do anything to improve their economy? Should it be the fault of the U.S. that their country is not as prosperous?
     
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  8. ultimate11

    ultimate11 MDL Novice

    Jun 28, 2015
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    The wall is just the beginning, I hope really. If I was Trump, I'd also look into air and other methods people are getting into this country, like tunnels and using other countries (such as flying from Mexico to Country B and then from Country B to the US). But as I said, at least it should be a start since there are some open gaps in the border, and some ill-equipped places where it's mostly fencing. That's like having on a Windows system Windows Firewall and Windows Defender only, you've got the basics, but not enough internal and external protection.
     
  9. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Yen: It's not just about Mexicans. We have a serious problem with drugs and terrorism. If there's an illegal channel for them to enter the country, they'll come in with the South Americans who illegally immigrate here.

    We need to curtail that. We have no choice.

    If you want to know about conditions in Mexico, then please look at the posts made by Mr.X. All of South America is dangerous and Mexico is no exception.

    Drug cartels are wreaking havoc there. And it's to the point where even government forces have no power to stop them. When you have lots of money, you can buy military hardware. And that's exactly what these cartels do.
     
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  10. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    There have been comments that the ban on immigration is only for 3 months. To these I point out that the ban can easily extended indefinitely. Indeed, if it’s to have any effect in stopping terrorists from entering, it will have to be extended, as they won’t mind waiting for 3 months. And in 3 months there may be even more of them.
     
  11. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

    Feb 13, 2012
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    I wish I could draw comic strips, from that comment I can see a big wall with a queue of terrorists waiting outside holding bombs tapping their feet, looking at their watches, and a boat on the sea chugging along every few days with 10 more each time, the queue getting longer as they wait for the 3 month ban to be up


    Terrorists are a minority, the media propaganda makes them out to be something much bigger - all this anti-terrorism stuff negatively affects the 99% of the population who are not terrorists, and only a handful of idiots who are, so in their eyes, they are winning because the entire world is changing badly for us, thanks to them, even though they are not directly doing anything like building walls
     
  12. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    If you draw such comic strips, the terrorists will be laughing at the silly thought they'd be queuing outside. Themselves are smart enough to wait where they are and keep planning. organizing and expanding, till they're allowed in. And only then make the attempt to enter.

    As for them being a minority, it only takes a handful to wreck havoc, at least psychologically. as proven repeatedly. But their numbers are besides the point, as here we're discussing the effectiveness of a short time ban on entry, not their proportion to total immigrants.
     
  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I know there are problems. They are problems every country has to deal with more or less.

    Concerning drugs it’s of almost no use to try to prevent ways of spreading/movement.
    And concerning terrorism it is of no use to surveil people either generally or coming from a particular country.


    Humankind has failed at ‘drugs’ and at terrorism so far. Both are increasing.
    To fight against....never works long term. Information and education can.

    There is a reason why people sell drugs and others consume them. And there is a reason why people become terrorists.


    Looking at the causes there are always 2 sides to consider. Nobody would bring drugs into and sell drugs in the US if there would nobody buy / use them.

    Drugs and theorists can come into a country (US) via many different ways. It’s absurd to think a wall would help.

    And I still think Trump stigmatizes ‘the others’ and sell them to be responsible for the mentioned US problems. Emotional conservatives are sensitive and fall for this…yes if we stop them southerners to come into the US we’ll have fewer problems… that is an illusion.

    The cause of drug abuse in the US resides in the US society and nowhere else.
    And potential terrorists are (only a few) humans…not the people coming from a particular direction ‘the south’… or elsewhere.

    BTW: IMHO The drug problem is law-made. Only a world wide legalization would stop it forever.
    The 'problems' and human suffer and violence which is created by current status of laws are far worse than their ('drugs own') human actions on body and soul....everybody who wants to consume 'drugs' can already today...
     
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  14. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

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    Everything you say is absolutely true. Without customers there would be no supply, and the only way to stop illegal drugs is to make drugs legal. Simple as that. It has been proven time, after time that legality does not change use. The same people are going to use drugs no matter what. With legality comes taxation, and regulation, so people would not actually die from drugs cut with other things like Fentanyl. It would be a win-win situation for law enforcement, government coffers, and users.
     
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  15. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    That would be for all drugs including LSD, Crack Cocaine and Mescaline?
     
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  16. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Who told you that people are being discriminated against because of their faith or religion?
    Are you aware that the airport protest are being funded by a known left wing party?
    It is possible that somebody has an agenda against Trump and will go out of their way to spread rumors that are false
    http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/01/28/george-soros-financed-groups-scheme-stop-trumps-temporary-refugee-halt-order/
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/liberal-activist-soros-funding/2017/01/29/id/770919/
    https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/01/29/soros-bankrolling-effort-to-stop-trumps-temporary-refugee-halt-order/
     
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  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Well, there's a lot of controversy and Trump encounters resistance and hence changes statements. If he doesn't..the better....
    One has to be careful when reading media. I also try to stay up to date and am open for new info.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20170130...ve-order-syrian-refugees-what-it-who-affected

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...migration-ban-syria-muslims-reaction-lawsuits

    Well I think the most 'crime' related drug is cocaine and its free base crack. I know it sounds dared at first sight. I do not say it should become legal from one day to another. A detailed step-by step concept needs to be worked out. It still should be controlled by professional institutions like weed. The goal is to eliminate cartels and any profit and money related crime that is possible due to current laws and its illegality.

    The major reason for dealing drugs is the immense profit margin which people make to go for it....

    I wish I would have another better idea but all what's been done against it seems not really to work. :(
     
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  18. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #98 Joe C, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    On the last link Yen, it states;
    And I can understand that because many Christians are being slaughtered in the predominately Muslim countries, There is nothing stating that they can not enter solely based on their religion, but based on religious persecution.

    I could possibly accept the use of cocaine being legalized but LSD/Mescaline should be in a different category


    One thing that should be a concern, is that a staunch Hillary supporter (multi-billionaire Geo. Soros) is funding these protest we are now witnessing, including the women's march recently
     
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  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I have a problem and always had with any kind of generalizations.....'the Christians, the Muslims, the Mexicans'.
    Am I responsible if a German kills another person only because I am German or can anything be said about me because of this event?

    Here are living a lot of citizens who have got dual citizenship. If one should be one of those countries they get problems immigrating to the US.


    The subject 'drugs'.

    Each of the so called drugs became 'drug' because of laws and classification. Each 'drug' or group has an own history.
    Each one has to be considered separately.

    But what they have in common is their start as medicine/medical use or even cultural/ritual use.

    All them later had a political history away from science yes a history based on manipulated historical relations and double standards of governments and even fake studies to enforce political control.

    The problem with 'drugs' has been created by those who fight them drugs.
     
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  20. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @Yen: I wholeheartedly agree with you there. We must gauge people as individuals.
    And in our daily lives, we do.

    -BUT-

    We (The USA) are at war with terrorism, and certain individuals coming from places that are on the US watch list
    will not be allowed to enter. And that's true of many other countries.

    I have first-hand experience watching heroin and crack cocaine ruin lives. I've lost friends to drug overdoses and had friends killed by junkies who chose to rob them and shoot them because they didn't have enough money or they didn't want to leave witnesses.

    Even though alcohol is legal, it has ruined countless lives, either by alcoholism, accidents or by child / spouse abuse.
    I grew up with an alcoholic step-father, so I know from first-hand experience.

    Even marijuana has it's problems. Adolescents who smoke pot tend to develop more slowly than those who smoke it at a later age. It also adversely affects memory.

    The problem with drugs is their destructive potential, and the people's lack of knowledge of the harmful side effects.

    That's why the drug laws were put into place. To protect the naive, who do not know any better.
     
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