Energy problem solved!!!???!!!

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by gorski, May 31, 2014.

  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1 gorski, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
    It just occurred to me, having seen/read the second link blog, that a combination of the following two ideas might put us on the energy path with zero requirements for oil/coal/etc.

    1) http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120312-wireless-highway-to-charge-cars - Tesla's idea...

    + (1x + Tesla):

    2) http://blog.petflow.com/this-invention/

    F**k! The world must change pronto!!! We must demand it in the strongest possible terms with all the politicians/state and corporations, from ourselves!!!

    :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

    What say you?!?
     
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  2. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Have you been smoking soylent, how do you expect the politicians to get kickbacks from the oil industry with that in place ?

    Link
    Not good for politicians :tea:
     
  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #3 Yen, Jun 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
    Both ideas are too much of science fiction, actually out of context / far fetched, IMHO. But the concept 'behind' is right, the biggest energy plant is there already, the sun.

    What if at all could be realized today?

    The change to renewable energies brings already huge problems itself...no need to think about wireless recharge like for induction (consider those who are traveling through electromagnetic fields with far more energy, those who complain about a too high SAR value of their mobile, lol.)
    Also solar roadways…
    If all roadways would be solar fields, then…..
    This relation is faulty…..
    (Consider manufacturing of them and how much energy it would need to get them there).

    Science / tech have missed to develop energy storage concepts!!! We have become lazy exploiting in an easy way...
    Our intelligence is actually far more than to lay back and exploit...

    Also infrastructure is missing. Renewable energies are very location and time dependent.
    Sun (radiation) energy, wind (dynamic energy), water (potential energy), burn renewable fuels (chemical energy).
    (BTW: The source of all those energies is physical energy better said is due to nuclear fusion of a star, called the sun).
    The sun is enough to deliver all the energy we will ever need. We just need shorter renewal cycles.
    To count on one kind only like solar is far off…to think about wireless recharging whilst driving is science fiction.


    We need a concept.
    First one needs to research and divide the ‘country’ into areas. Then to build energy parks there which are dependent on the ‘energy delivering situation’.
    Since consumption and availability are different, the infrastructure / storage technologies must be available to create a balance.

    So we have area specific facilities like wind parks, solar parks, bio gas, dams and we need to spread their energy.
    On the other side we have own energy plants. (Houses with solar panels on it and fluids to cool them to raise efficiency and to use the heated up fluid on a heat exchanger to get hot water in the house.)

    But first we have to switch out nuclear energy step by step by replacing it. At the same time we need to expand the infrastructure and create storage facilities. Then we need to get rid of the fossil fuels.

    Then many years later we can think about Tesla.
    What would be electrical energy, for 'Tesla' when it's still made from nuclear energy?

    Germany is a Pioneer. We cannot afford to fail. We want to get rid of fossil fuels and of nuclear energy.
    Capitalists already have changed their directions.
    Sure the profit is far greater at nuclear energy, related to the mass of the fuel.
    But those bloodsuckers have already recognized that there are new markets with new technologies where they also can make a lot of money.

    ATM it seems the end user is the idiot paying much money for an kWh.
    But that is not the problem. It must not be a problem. I do not feel like an idiot.

    Each German has to pay for that revolutionary pioneer example.
    I hope the greed and intolerance of others will not let that fail….

    The energy problem is not solved, there is actually no energy problem, the sun is enough.
    Each physics student in the first semester can calculate that!

    The question is: Have we enough insight? Can we apply science to achieve the goal?
    Science fiction is no way to change the mind....tolerance and insight are.
     
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  4. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    If a meteor would just fall from the sky and crush them all we could do 100 years of tech in 10 and solve 80% of the problems in the world.

    The sun is the key. It has more power than we could ever dream of using, if only we figure out how to tap it properly.

    Anyway we have to solve this problem soon or it will be hell on Earth by 2040 (if anything is actually alive) due to all the things timed to go wrong + the population increase.
     
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  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    The sun is more than an energy producer. It delivers energy actually for free. The sun does not ask if one is rich or not and has no capitalistic interest, lol.
    Sure one who cannot produce the tech oneself to use the energy needs a 'loan' from others. But can it easily pay back later.
    Our problem today is that we first need to invest and the question who should pay that. Branches of industries are exempt of extra costs. But there is the problem: Which branches should be exempt of it?
    Arguing with we need to be productive otherwise we have to fire employees. A part of the costs per kWh are there to cover the costs for the change to renewable energies. One can easily imagine how politics and lobbyism are trying to keep as much of own profit....
    So what is more important: To keep as much of own profit / capital as possible, because capital = happiness? Or to spend something for a greater universal goal?

    It is always the same, we have no energy problem, we have an ego problem.
    I do not complain about the increasing energy costs. Everybody who can pay, should, and I can. I have a job and I have food....and I know that a goal that brings benefit for many is more worth than a own goal...the survival of humankind will be dependent on insight. The tech is already here and the sun, too.
     
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  6. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    Solar is getting more and more popular.
    Where I live, in California, there's a big solar panel boom for houses.

    My house has had them for a few years now and we actually only pay like 150 dollars a year when taking our energy over-production credit into account.

    Basically we get charged like 20 bucks a month for overhead utility and then we get a rebate check every year for energy produced that got put back onto the grid.
     
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  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yen, these ideas/products have come out of a very real (set of) need(s) and are deeply rooted in reality and therefore they have nothing to do with day-dreaming of any sort!

    They were even solicited by the US gov, since the price of oil is going through the roof and oil is the key to asphalt etc. The question was: "Can you produce an alternative to the current materials for the purpose, that would pay its own price of manufacturing and maintenance over the course of its life-span"?

    First of all, the production/manufacture and distribution of energy is the crucial question of Modernity! We are all - not just US!!! - most seriously interested in getting it done!

    Secondly, the recycling of our "oil incorporated s**te" (all manner of plastics etc.) into those solar panels for roadways, pathways, sports grounds etc. - again, is a very real need and absolutely achievable, since all of it was done/put into a product we can touch/feel/see functioning by talking to and co-operating with various universities - i.e. people like you! If only it turns out right after lots of tests and longer term usage, something scientists in their arrogance most of the time don't do - unless pushed into by the society at large (via the State, like pharmaceuticals are now, as opposed to 50 years ago, for instance)... We have seen way too many "scientific products" turn to a very real nightmare for Humanity, not to be very weary and careful about yet another possible "scientific fiasco" (see, for instance, hundreds of man-made substances that mimic oestrogens, so called endocrine disruptos, like https://duckduckgo.com/?q=endocrine+disruptors and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkxIJJI37bQ )!!!

    As for "powers that be" and a very real power equilibrium right now...

    At the moment, the oil is still plentiful, those interests in the US political context/system are dominant and so for a while to come, these ideas (of free energy [but the machines to make it work are not free - to manufacture and distribute etc.!!!] and its various applications) will have to "mature" in various Idahos of this world, for sure....

    But!

    Not every country has the US system! And they also have the same need! Maybe even much cheaper ways of producing the solar highways? Starting with the EU!

    I think this is the future - (almost) now! Just watch it happen, sooner than you think!

    But my finger is on BRICS + Mexico... :D

    Internet/info exchange is a bitch! :D
     
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  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #8 gorski, Jun 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
    (OP)
    We have projects of covering Sahara with energy collectors but how to store it and transport it - to EU, for instance - we still do not have the technological solutions...

    Hence, this one really sticks out, especially in the warmer countries, with enough sunny days per year... Cover just southern EU with it and go laughing all the way to the bank, so to speak... :D

    It seems to me, a techie lay person - that the solution is nigh!

    Bar the current oily-slimey profiteers' opposition, 'course...

    But the BIG opportunities are there and so...

    I mean, the very same people could....

    Let's wait'n'see who will "see" first! :)
     
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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  10. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    Rest assured the powers that be will milk the current energy sources before we as a planet and society cannot survive (the rich can't keep making money off us on oil if gas hits a grand a gallon, after all).

    This is going to lead to a period of unimaginable conflict and suffering though, I'm afraid, if nobody can get their s**t together and the problem remains unchecked. They'd rather chase diminishing returns and screw the planet up. After all they and all of us will be dead then anyway.

    We already have that radioactive death wave coming from Japan that the media won't talk about and nobody is for sure how destructive it will be.

    If certain people get taken to the guillotine to make significant world change it might be worth it though if we survive it.

    @gorski one big limitation all around is battery tech. Cars, Smartphones, etc all need batteries and I read somewhere we've only made 3 fold increases in battery capacity over so many decades while computers are thousands of times more powerful. If we can absorb solar fast enough and store a crap ton of it we are set, but we aren't there yet and not enough resources are going there (or are being squandered). We've pretty much peaked what we can do with current battery tech until we find a new chemical. Tesla or Apple/Google would have found a way to milk the current batteries by now if it was feasible, or someone else even sooner.
     
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  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    M8, you can't stop technology getting smaller and yet more and more powerful! All the time! New materials being invented and all. You are making the same mistake millions of thinkers make all the time: judge future by today and today alone...

    First of all, the tech above is about to be recharged wireless-ly, on the move, so no big deal what we have in the cars...

    But!

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21925123

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/01/renewable-energy-breakthrough/

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyl...ough-promisses-30-second-smartphone-charging/

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/407207/battery-breakthrough/

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...l-ev-and-hybrid-battery-breakthroughs#slide-2 - make sure you keep reading those 10 pages...

    etc. etc. etc.
     
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  12. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Well I have two things to say.
    One is that conflict is not good for many people especially businesses. So I don't see a scenario in the future where gas will reach a "grand a gallon". Commonsense would dictate that the power source will change gradually as the fossil fuel reserves deplete. The impact of a change from fossil fuels to something else will be felt in poorer countries, which almost always are way behind the curve. I think in future the power sources will be diverse, the countries further away from the equator cannot use the sun as a permanent source of energy. That will be very expensive in the short term and in most cases will require sending solar panels into the outer atmosphere. Geothermal, hydro and wind are excellent alternatives. Given that the Earth is 75% water, you would think that wave power generation would be an easily accessible and cheap method of energy generation.
    The second thing is that technology is only as good as the people behind it. And in general the people behind it end up being politicians. For this reason alone, I can see a lot of stagnation and backwardness happening.
     
  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    With science fiction here I don’t mean an unachievable daydream.
    A test track could be built today. And it would work after a short period of development, the tech to realize is here already.

    With science fiction I mean “Not the time to realize it now, other things should have priority”.
    I would go further and even say that to develop wireless recharging technologies is today a waste of research capacity.
    Why do I think so?

    We have shortcomings, that is a fact. I have posted them already and they are a result of passivity and lack of foresight.

    Important factors are efficiency, amortization, environmental compatibility, life span and availability.

    And we can improve on two sides: How we gain energy and how we save energy.
    There are already many impressing inventions, but they should not hide the fact that we first still have to do some basic homework.


    Solar energy is available the time when there is enough light, wind energy when there is wind, means need to be processed when they are available or to be switched off when nobody wants to use it!

    In other words we have huge excess at particular times / places and demand for energy when the sources can’t deliver.
    This great imbalance is something different than just to develop new batteries for vehicles.


    We need a reasonable over-all concept. The idea to have electro cars only with no exhaust gas, even wirelessly rechargeable seems to be great, but we need to have an overall sight on it.
    We need to develop storage technologies AND very flexible infrastructure FIRST.
    Then we need to think about a concept. For instance focus on home battery storage or central storage facilities.
    We need to mix renewable energies. We have also photosynthesis a longer process, but with storage abilities. So fuels like Ethanol or bio Diesel are an alternative to electro motors.

    Some brainstorming (far more important than ‘Tesla’ now)…

    North Sea Germany, very windy, wind parks are producing a lot of energy. Night in Germany low consumption, what can we do?
    -Switch on local batteries at home?
    -Ask neighbors like Austria if they can store the energy for instance by pumping water from valleys up to peaks (potential energy)…and sell us back then later..?

    Or even more globally, like there is always somebody in the world who needs energy why not selling it and buy it back later at their excess times, money is also potential energy and can be used to store IF the infrastructure allows that…

    These things are our homework to do first…a very flexible infrastructure can compensate our lack of storage capacities and cooperation with other nations also.

    Expansion of infrastructure
    Building energy parks
    Researching for storage technologies like batteries and fuel cells (PEMFC)
    Energy cannot be created, it can be transformed only. To transform it into potential energy allows to store it.

    These are basics of physics, our way is to realize clever concepts first by evaluation what is where possible..

    If you'd be able to invent a device like an USB pen which could store the energy demand of your family per year, then you could buy Microsoft and Google and lock them down togehter, lol.
     
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  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Now, I know your priorities and they ARE Sci-Fi!!!:p:D

    For the rest, look up - maybe there...???:cool:
     
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  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #15 Yen, Jun 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    Not really sci-fi. Some current things, no special order.....

    -The 'facility' connecting Europe: There will be between 2014 and 2020 5.85 billion available for the development of trans European energy infrastructure. 750 millions are on the way already.

    -A video from my energy provider (unfortunately not in English available)



    -Their projects: https://www.naturstrom.de/ueberuns/unsere-kraftwerke.html

    -Switch off schedule of nuclear power plants (blue ones are already switched off):
    image-697573-panoV9free-foqq.jpg

    -New Energy 'highways' (blue interrupted: direct current new buildings, gray interrupted: alternating current new buildings, blue solid: already under construction, waiting for approval or already approved)
    DWO-IP-Stromtrasse-jb-2-.jpg

    -Central storage facility (battery plant pilot project):
    http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=14197

    -Fuel cells as central energy storage facilities...
    http://www.fz-juelich.de/SharedDocs...l;jsessionid=F83F3350CB74947F6ECB2D0DBEBC4EC3


    Also to mention: The central 'organ' in controversial focus: http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?page_id=283

    As said wireless storage tech can wait...:) And there are difficulties. There are even citizens complaining wind turbines are defacing the nature....and complaining about more costs..we are talking about 100-150 € more per year for a 4 person family’s energy demand....:rolleyes:
     
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  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    What, no ego-stuff as the thing to change first, all else is an illusion? :p :D :p
     
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  17. catgirl

    catgirl MDL Novice

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    Sorry had to chime in here.

    My take is that the discussion of freeing the world of it's energy "leash" was decided at Shoreham, Long Island.

    The moment Tesla demonstrated Resonant Microwave Interferometry in 1908 at Tunguska the free energy party was over.

    Tesla had the natural solution, he should have kept silent about the other mode.
     
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  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Explain, please...
     
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  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    What has the Wardenclyffe Tower to do with the Tunguska event? Too much of Thomas Pynchon? Yes, please explain...

    I'd say it was over (for him) already when he took money from J.P Morgan....all Morgan wanted was own advantage. (communication--->stocks exchange rates)...
    Morgan never wanted to supply energy wirelessly...how would he get money from the consumer?
    Tesla had always problems with money / did not care about and was not honest to the financiers....he could hardly pay his electricity bills, lol. So he said he is building a communication transmitter to get money from Morgan.

    Tesla did rather attract attention with alternating current tech. than with wireless energy transmission. He's invented a lot of stuff.

    But he is known to have things exaggerated. And he was like 'Monk' a genius with phobias. AFAIK the Wardenclyffe Tower never had worked...
    Oh well long ago when I read about Tesla...
     
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  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yen, he lived in hotel rooms - had nothing to do with electricity bills.... :p :D

    Btw, he invented the XX century.... :D
     
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