Global Warming: Your opinion ....

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by R29k, Jun 14, 2011.

?

Is Global Warming man made or a natural cycle ?

  1. Yes, it is man made

  2. Undecided

  3. No, I think there is another reason for it

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
    5,326
    6,044
    180
    @Bobsheep author of one of your above links .. Come on you can do better

    http://www.desmogblog.com/steven-goddard


     
  2. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

    Apr 19, 2010
    2,329
    1,378
    90
  3. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
    5,326
    6,044
    180
  4. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

    Apr 19, 2010
    2,329
    1,378
    90
    #344 BobSheep, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013

    I will settle for his credentials. Did you read the right post?

    Roy W. Spencer received his Ph.D. in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1981.
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    :D..gorski. It's and will be always hard to discuss with you. It seems I am unable to communicate verbally what kind of scientist I am.
    It seems others (like redroad) know me better because they do not put everything in learned patterns and hence are able to 'feel'.
    What has god to do with mystifications? And 'ego' will be my mantra as long as you need it to hear. :D
    Don't you see how it fights for survival in 'you'?


    (Terms: Black and white pearls). During my study there had been more people opposed to me than 'friends'.
    I dared to "question the supreme arrogance of ... colleagues"....
    I had been thrown out not only one time as I have posted already.

    I am still 'conspicuous' with my way to think at my colleagues. I research because of research. With the goal to relieve suffer.
    The ethic and moral belongs to me and does not come from science. And when science is 'the only place' where technology comes from then technology can only come from science.
    The purchaser of technology don't has to be a scientist, though. And a weapon is harmless until one fires it.
    Who is responsible, the creator or the purchaser of weapons, the 'end-user'?


    Let's now come to some practical. Let us put 'the others' aside.
    gorski, what are you doing for our nature, personally? I mean have you applied measures to save energy at your home?
    Do you take care of nature and how?
    When have you updated your devices at home simply to save energy (not obligatory costs)?
    What's about waste? Do you separate it? Do you recycle?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
    5,326
    6,044
    180

    Changing the link is better optics but still doesn't change the view

    http://www.desmogblog.com/roy-spencer






     
  7. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

    Apr 19, 2010
    2,329
    1,378
    90
    #347 BobSheep, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
    Without qualifying "Nope" it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. It's a RamondTH kind of thing that I'm suprised to see from you.
    And it's got nothing to do the with the "view". If you disagree with the view, just say so. I'm sure a Ph.D. in meteorology won't mind if you disagree with him.

    @Waste

    I separate out for recycling

    Paper
    Bio waste, vegetable leftovers etc.
    Tins
    White Glass
    Coloured Glass
    Cardboard
    Metal
    Wood
    Polystyrene
    Batteries
    Electrical Goods
    Paints and Solvents
    Building materials
     
  8. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
    5,326
    6,044
    180
    :biggrin:You asked
    My answer next post with link why (and then you changed the link)
     
  9. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

    Apr 19, 2010
    2,329
    1,378
    90
    #349 BobSheep, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  10. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

    Dec 2, 2011
    5,326
    6,044
    180
    I read when it first came out since it was the crux of the Heartlands Institutes thrust at global warming debate for some time .. Your turn to read ..

    http://www.desmogblog.com/roy-spencer


    Heartland Institute .. There is a lot to read on this and what there position is in the debate .. If your interested I posted on them earlier in this thread ..
    http://www.desmogblog.com/taxonomy/term/1634
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,548
    1,475
    180
    #351 gorski, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
    Yen, you thrown out of - what? Book-club? You rebel!!! :D

    I'll document my recycling for you, then... :D Just so you stop your suspicious German nature from crucifying me before you know anything about me... But I sign on the dotted Bob's line... Minus some things I can't do, as infrastructure in Luxembourg is quite poor... in that reagard, when compared to serious countries like Sweden, for instance...

    Oh, I worked on the land with my granny when she was alive (soil preparation, the potatoes, corn, plums [Sljivovica from scratch! :D ], you name it...) and with my aunt and uncle (cherries and apricots and whatnot) and I do appreciate it all - the animals (I was feeding and taking care of more chickens, pigs, cows, cats and dogs than you can imagine :D ), the back-breaking work, the lot! I just can't quite kill animals... My gran had to do it... I rather ate eggs, then... :) But love meat and need everything... It's the old heart that is at "fault"... :D

    Yen, you're full of contradictions, just like the rest of us, and therefore :D sometimes your tone infuriates me, all aloof and so on... but I have hopes for you... :D Challenging your colleagues to... errmmm... what? A game of cards? :D Do tell, what was all that about?!? :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
    1,331
    1,064
    60
    omg, gorski, my friend,
    i guess i risk getting off topic here, but really..
    you did all those things, in a less than comfortable environment..
    cannot always have been easy..
    something like that happens to be beyond my experience, lived in a
    country where such things do no not usually happen, all my life..
    i cannot really apologize for that, feeling as i do that it is
    everyones right to live in a place where such things do not happen..
    but what tf, my friend, i would like to ask you, please realize
    that a lot of people here do not have that experience, through no
    fault of themselves..and raising your hand in anger will not breed
    any understanding from them..
    i say that with all due respect..........
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. dabits

    dabits Guest

    I never believed it, but global warming is happening after all :g:

    It's 5 C outside and 19 C inside, and the heating is off, has not been on this winter yet!
    I know now who is causing it, the neighbors :eek: I am surrounded :sofa:
    Should I report them :unsure:
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,548
    1,475
    180
    In addition to my post 243 and onwards (if Frankfurt School is a bit too much... :D ):

    http://www.edwardgoldsmith.org/887/is-science-neutral/

    http://www1.umn.edu/ships/ethics/values.htm

    http://www.charactered.org/main.htm > http://www.charactered.org/science.htm

    http://acdussault.ep.profweb.qc.ca/...cience_value_neutrality_as_read_on_may_28.pdf

    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4531452?uid=3738488&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101514031743

    http://www.calresco.org/lucas/value.htm

    Or...

    :tea:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

    Apr 19, 2010
    2,329
    1,378
    90
    #355 BobSheep, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    I've had a good look at desmog.blog and in particular the article abour Dr Roy Spencer. Ok, so he wrote a paper that should have never been published. I agree.
    I looked at any news on Peter Gleick and found the articles praised him as a hero despite him committing a criminal offence.

    http://www.desmogblog.com/whistleblower-authenticates-heartland-documents
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-documents/2012/02/21/gIQA5WnCRR_blog.html
    http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/criminal-impersonation/

    Perhaps it was their view that Peter Gleick did no wrong.

    more info: I also found out that Peter Gleick held this position.

    "In 2011, Dr. Gleick was the launch Chairman of the "new task force on scientific ethics and integrity" of the American Geophysical Union"

    I think this makes the score 1-1. We should leave it there and accept each others differing opinions whilst respecting what each of us finds in the way of facts.
     
  16. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

    Apr 19, 2010
    2,329
    1,378
    90
    #356 BobSheep, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
    And I agree mostly (I didn't have enough time to thoroughly read everything) with your articles about science, values, ethics etc. It can never be pure. There is always a bias to "find" the things that "the hand that feeds it" wants. Even if the person doing the research is aware of it or not. Certainly there is no negative bias.

    p.s. And I'm not really keeping score. I didn't know that about Spencer. So it seems to err is human and if you do not err then you're not doing much anyway. So hats off to all the doers in the world.

    Good debate is good. I would really like to lock up all the pros and cons in a room for a week and say to them. No food or water for a week or until you agree to work together. I would think we'd find what we're seeking much sooner.
     
  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    @gorski

    You are the one who sticks the labels (Yen-German-crucifying-scientist) on me……..so you are actually crucifying yourself. :p

    I simply asked for your relationship to the nature. And your post about your life with your granny and the animals told me more than thousands of your other posts. It impressed me much. :worthy:

    Awareness of nature has nothing to do with measures and infrastructures of a capitalistic world where one lives.
    When one cannot have the possibility the Swedish have, then the one cannot realize them.
    When one cannot buy energy saving light bulbs then one cannot use it.

    When awareness of nature and respect and devotion is ever present the right behavior will follow.
    The unity with her will unveil the right measures. First awareness, then ‘infrastructure’. A thing old cultures already knew….an eternal truth.

    There are people walking from A to B without even to notice that they are walking in the nature.
    That much they are possessed by their mind! So how could one develop responsibility of something that is not even aware (does obviously not exist at this moment)?

    Btw: Simplified I can say I challenge 'others' by my 'mystifications' of science. Since it questions the entire roots of science only a few have a open ear for it. :D
    But I simply do that by asking them to open their eyes and not to ignore some 'unpleasant' results and facts of experiments, (quantum eraser), determination of time and so on... :)
    Science actually has evidence already of that what others still call 'mystification'. It is simply swept under the table.
    It applies to consciousness, reality, time, truth and space and of course 'the nature'.

    Einstein was aware of it I am sure, lol.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,548
    1,475
    180
    #358 gorski, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    You should have tried our Šljivovica... :D Never mind Mara, then... :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    I sure had liked both. :D:)


    This might resolve some of my 'contradictions'. Holy grail and stuff.
    gorski you point out ‘flaws’ in science which I do also. I am not one of ‘those’, who think science is value-free.
    I have my ‘rants’ with colleagues from quality control and quality management, better said their confidence of their results they create and the huge apparatus, I often say paper for nothing, the simulated safety due to a lot of papers and regulations, a bloated machinery.
    Final goal of quality control is release of goods to sell. And that goal plays always a role when evaluating scientific results.
    (I hope nobody of them reads that) :D

    One never should forget:
    There is actually no absolute measurement. Means: A scientist can only relate one thing to another. And one thing is declared to be the ‘master standard’.

    Simple example: How does one determine length? You use a ruler and relate it to the thing to be measured. Then you read off how many units come along and voila you have its length.
    But what’s about the ruler?

    The same is with mass and concentrations. The same is with pollutants. No pollution without a pollutant AND something that is polluted!
    To this duality (relativity) we need also the observer (scientist) who is also a relative aspect.

    The influence of the scientist itself. He’s to read the (relative) values and to write an article. This article is ever influenced by the goal the scientist tries to achieve.
    And concerning global warming we have a great variety of ‘systems’ which are related to each other.

    (Remember : A meteorologist is not even able to forecast the weather more than 4 days.)


    Science has always its blind spot. But what is the reason for it?

    I am sorry to end with my mantra again. It is always the ego that gives something (science) a direction / meaning.
    For instance a simple table of average temperatures of the last 100 years is no global warming.
    There must be one reading it and there must be one who has (relatively) measured it. There cannot be absolute objectivity.
    But that is not an issue that applies to science only. ‘Everything is relative’. Einstein.

    There is no reason to become upset when having a look at a damaged car….until one realizes it is the own, lol. This sudden change in 'result' (relation) is purely ego related. The same is with scientists. Global warming can suddenly become an issue when the relation changes.
    The scientific data are still the same (damaged car), but the ‘result’ (relation to) changes.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    5,178
    4,819
    180
    If you live in the tropics then forecasting the weather for the day is very unpredictable with convectional rainfall.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...