Hard to tell the difference between good heart people and those who just want to win

Hi,

nice to discuss with you @all, and @sid_16 nice to hear from you again.


We have to be careful not to glorify the Self. Also not to let it appear to be something 'special', hidden, beyond.
It is the most common and natural thing that is, it's actually the only thing that is (real). It is now, has ever been and ever will. Everybody can say : I am. Has there ever been a time where one could say : I am not?

No problem.
Speaking of Half man Half biscuit. It might be helpful for him to get rid of what he thinks / he knows about his religion, god, Christians. It is helpful not to look 'outside' and think about 'others'. To turn the sight inwards.....

I totally agree. The evolution of the mind will end in the 'Self'.

I guess everybody knows that Apache is a name of a Linux server (which actually runs MDL) and I do not refer to the Indians. I wanted to express that there are still people creating useful OSes which can be used as a free license.
To underline that there are people creating something that can be used for free, without to want something in return (money). Resistance is futile are words to the one who wants money. Like you can do what you want there are people making an effort with the intention to share the effort, not to earn money.


"If I understand your point correctly, the unveiling of the "Self" leads to the conclusion that all previous attempts in understanding "self' and not "Self" were futile. You know I am with you there."
"If we did not try to imagine the path of the Budha how would we understand our own?"

The issue is that there is nothing to understand. Can there be 2 Selves? The one who tries to understand the other? "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you”
As long as one tries to understand one can not be aware of the Self. As long as it doesn't happen yet, one might need Buddha, yes.

"If you took the time or have seen the movies I referenced, the question on a basic level was,from a native perspective, how can I trust this God that you bring if my people are dropping like flies (smallpox was brought to a native population with no natural immunity)? Is my lack of belief the cause of these deaths?"

Who actually has died? It are their bodies that vanished.
That what is looking 'out of your eyes' can never be seen.
There will be no happiness when confusing the Self with the not-Self (body)
There is another thing. When being aware of the Self and there still are vasanas (predispositions) the Self is veiling.
Everybody who has a calm mind has moments in his life where the Self is unveiled. One attribute (to refer on topic) is they are of a good heart.

'Is my lack of belief the cause of these deaths?"'
Not the cause. You think they have died. The cause therefore is that you confuse the Self with the body.

In that aspect: 'Total devotion to god, or hand over' gets its sense. Most think it's an totalitarian Christian order.
Vasanas cause doubt in god. Or TS uses to say the dark side is acting.

'Total devotion to the Self, or hand over' might be the better expression for those who have a 'polluted' their complex of thoughts of god.

It is subjective, yes.

"the 'absolute' truth to anything can't be determined unless we have an absolute medium to determine it"

We cannot have an absolute medium. There would be one (we) who has something (=2), how could it be absolute then?
The absolute is undeterminable. To determine you live in duality. The thing to determine and the one who does it.
The mind plays games here as well. It constantly wants to explain.
We have to stop to want to explain every time.

I wanted that all the time, hence I am a scientist. I needed to figure that one thing cannot be explained, it simply is.
All the religions try to say that. There is something that simply is, it's you and that You is eternal.

It makes you crazy if you try. Lol. (Some might think I am already, lol.)

 

"IMHO We all win and those who insist on it are a discordant tone in the symphony of life"
I am not sure if I get this as you mean it.
(When discussing such matters I always have to notice that words are limited, besides of the fact that English is not my native.)

We all win= Everybody comes home, nobody is lost. The entire life has 'a sense', to rediscover the Self=bliss.

"those who insist on it are those who insist on it are a discordant tone in the symphony of life"
those who insist on it = are not yet aware of the Self and hence still a discordant tone in the symphony of life.
Did I get it right that way?

I knew that you'd not conclude hence I posted everybody knows that it's meant to be a name of a server without to refer to the Apache (Indians).It seemd to me not reasonable that one could relate it to the Indians as I used it at my signature. Another question would be why the creator has named the server Apache.

@sid_16

I guess I need to say more about the terms mind and the Self. (To communicate we need to have terms, they of course don't have the claim to be absolute 'right')
'My mind is the only thing that I know exists.'
To exist is also such a term.


When you are awake then there is the mind, the awake-mind. So it exists. The mind is a bunch of thoughts. There is a base thought, the I-thought. It arises before the others do. When you observe the world then you always do it relative to the I-thought. The idea of I observes the world.
So you can perceive the color red. You can say: I see something that has a red color. And yes as you have mentioned, there is no absolute color. When you were a little kid you started to learn what the color read is. Your parents pointed to a red item, you perceived it and you've got a sensation. By learning 'the meaning of the color red' you have related that special sensation to the sound of red. When learned to speak you can associate that sound everytime when you get the sensation again.

Others way to perceive red is different, but the result is always the same. So we get the impression red is absolute.

When you dream, there is your dream-mind, which exists. Your awake mind does not co exist now! Your idea of I is different there, hence the perceived world is also different. There are completely different rules and physics. THe idetification of the I idea is now not that rigid. Hence your 'mobility' seems to have more free space.

This world is as real as the awake mind world.


Then there is a state of S Sleep (deep sleep). There are no thoughts and hence there is no world and no mind. So the mind does not exist here. There is calm, there are no questions, there is peace. But most of us are not aware of this state. Anway that what is 'you' exists. It is the Self.
When you wake up at morning the I-thought arises and the other thoughts follow, they 'build' the awake mind and the awake world arises.

To rely on that Self and to be fully aware of it. This means 'to be enlightened'.

Meditation is a technique to achieve that. Also devotion to it (the Self), to hand over. Yoga, Atma Vichara (Exploration of the Self), to sing and praise the lord, to pray. All these are methods to achieve that. One can be suitable for somebody, the others are not.

All religion's goal is to achieve that. They provide different ways to.

"Find the source of that I-thought and the mind disappears. The only thing that will be left is the 'Self'. (Vichara)

"Be still and know that I am God”, Psalm 46,"

“There is one alone and there is no second”

Some truths the humans can hardly 'understand':

When you sleep the awake world does not exist! (Most think the world exists independent of themselves)
All that not lasts forever is illusionary and cannot be real.
One is not the body.
Try this: http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/4066-Disassemble-yourself-you%92ll-find-no-I-no-core!


The insight to these might be shaking. The impression we had been wrong all the time.
The term relief is there to get rid of nescience.
It seems to be sure and I guess everybody can agree with it. There will be no happiness when one thinks he is the body.
It does not work. Just to say, OK then I am not the body, doesn't work either. Any doubt has to vanish.

Also when speaking about this: We can ask somebody: Do you believe that there will be something left when you have 'died'?
I guess it's a valid question everybody in life is asking.
All religions say yes, it is. It is actually 'that' what you really are.

 

Yes.

I generally avoid to talk about all this. Actually it's up to everybody to care about their own way. Also I often get misunderstood, but not here I guess.

Some classic prejudices / misunderstandings:

To extinct the mind is sick, how could one?
Meditation is an auto suggestion of a particular theory until the one is brain washed to believe it.
To extinct the ego is like suicide.
"Be still and know that I am God”, Psalm 46," : A human dares to be god, how can he?




But what's quite impressing is: The more you 'get' the faster you get more. And some day one gets access to the scriptures which seemed useless before.

Some examples: (It doesn't matter if one agrees with the (my) interpretations. The important thing is to have access to the scriptures now!!)

The I (ego) separates you from god (Self). God has thrown us out of the paradise, because we have forgotten about him (the Self).


"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"

Why? Because every image of god can't be him (the Self).
This Commandment is no order, it shall prevent to see things as god, to have a false god.

To have lost the mind. Common sense: insane
To get rid of thoughts, calm, basically to have 'lost' the mind as well: enlightened

Hence it is said: The highest form to commumicate wisdom is to remain silent.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Matthew 5:8

May a calm mind unveil the Self, peace.

 

Some say the internet is to consume and chats and threads often are shallow. Also the intention: Such like: Please help me I need.........and when got it they vanish.

There are so many 'interesting' minds. To hear their story is of great benefit. Modern communication such as the internet also can be a benefit.
I suggest to travel. I work that I can travel. Meeting people means to interact with different cultures. Talk to them, visit places where they live their traditions. You don't need to read a boring scripture. If a scripture is boring, you don't have access to it. When the time is right it gets exciting.

I am very glad to have found all this. It's no coincidence to meet you here.
When your mind is changing you'll find those whose mind is changing. Good hearts will recognize each other.

Thanks for this.