has our world changed, after snowden?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by nodnar, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

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  2. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

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  3. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

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  4. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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  5. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    omg..

    i must remember to tell the gf not to wear unpatriotic aluminium underwear..
    whatever next, i wonder?
    they want to check if she shaved, patriotically? omg..
    there used to be a time when you could steal clothing from a store
    using unpatriotic aluminium bags.. unpatriotic?
    maybe, if you are indoctrinated to hold your hand on your heart,
    does the us call you patriotoc? omg..
    i do not like aluminium anyway, come to that. it is nasty and cold..
    yyyak!!
     
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  6. Stewox

    Stewox MDL Junior Member

    Nov 22, 2013
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    What are they doing? Do you know everything what they're doing?
     
  7. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Which part of thugs don't you understand. What do you think thugs do, rescue little kittens from trees ?!
     
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  8. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    #109 Michaela Joy, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
    I don't know. Even if I did, I wouldn't tell you or anyone else for that matter. First and foremost, because I love my country. It's got its' flaws, but it's where I live. Secondly, I would have not been able to get or keep my security clearance if I was a blabbermouth or a conspiracy theory nut.

    No...I don't. That's -way- above my pay grade.

    And I really don't care. :imag:

    :MJ
     
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  9. Stewox

    Stewox MDL Junior Member

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    #110 Stewox, Jul 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
    Even if they were raping 5 year old children, cutting their heads off and drinking their blood?
    Even if they forced you to take a spoon and cut out both eyeballs of a random person walking on the street and eat them raw?


    So you don't know what are they doing, (and you really don't care) but at the same time you are claiming that you are sure that you are not a threat to anything they're doing, which means if they are engaging in criminal activity or the most evil things imaginable, you are implying (by you not being a threat to that), that you would be okay with it, whatever it is, which makes you complicit in any and all crimes and universally immoral activity they could be engaged in, so that would make you not only a traitor to the Constitution of the United States but also to humanity it self.

    There are many whistleblowers from intelligencia but like 3-5 big fish from NSA publicly (the group with William Binney) and Snowden, now calculate this vs the total employees of NSA plus all contractors, and let's say around 50% are duped by the agency and really believe they're doing a good job and so they can't be blamed since they were scientifically tricked by the enemy(mindless minions). And let's say 30% know what they're doing and are complicit and enjoy watching their ex have sex with a new boyfriend, messing with their social and bank accounts. So there's a lot of traitors out there.

    And just the whole thing about watching their ex and constantly joking, harrassing, insulting, I think shows the general cultural and moral degeneracy of the population, the agencies seem to have no problem hiring such and worse people.

    Are you really really sure you'd be silent because you love your hijacked/compromised/offshore-run coun.. corporation, and be aiding and abetting whatever they're engaged in?
     
  10. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    So what's your point?

    And, apart from ranting in the chit-chat section of a computer tech forum, what can you do about it?

    :MJ
     
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  11. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @zerobasha: He might very well be a CIA agent. This might have been some CIA plot concocted to further some hidden agenda somewhere.

    And now He's in Russia, looking like the biggest traitor to the US. In a perfect position to spy and keep tabs on them...

    We don't know. And we may never know.

    Just like 9/11, the Kennedy assassination, and a plethora of other conspiracies, All we can do is speculate and feed the fire. :)

    As long as We don't turn on each other and start bickering among ourselves, we can get closer to the truth.

    "The entire truth about anything is almost impossible to tell, beyond reasonable limits"

    :MJ
     
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  12. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Hmm. I have problems with the way you argue, your floral fantasy. I mean how probable is that your science fiction thoughts would come true? And considering the probability how should I value your further arguments/assumptions?

    You can read my opinion about the NSA and Snowden, but what do you actually want from MJ who represents an US citizen? I got the feeling that you try to make any US citizen responsible for what the US administration is doing wrong (in your opinion). Besides of that what is different to you? Do you think she's to take action because she lives there and you cannot because you don't? Do you know more about than others?

    What the NSA is doing affects the entire IT they have enough power to act immune and uncontrolled...maybe you can make clearer what you expect so I can join the discussion.:)
     
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  13. Stewox

    Stewox MDL Junior Member

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    #114 Stewox, Jul 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015

    Well I wouldn't say that, I pointed it out, from 6000 miles away, but here you go:

    (those weird eFs, just read it as an "s")

    [​IMG]


    So, MJ, are you performing your Duty ?

    At least you'll know what you and/or everyone around you is celebrating on July 4th, MJ, among other things you were supposed to be celebrating this document along with that statement ofcourse.

    And california's beaches always provide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyhCOPh48ew
     
  14. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    #115 Michaela Joy, Jul 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
    @Stewie: So far, nothing you've posted in this thread has any relevance to this thread or its' main question.
    I'll reiterate the question that nodnar asked, just in case you can't find the first post (or the title at the top of the page).

    Has the world changed, after Snowden?

    Why don't you try to answer the question? Do you know who Snowden is?

    Do you need help? Let me help you http://lmgtfy.com/?q=snowden


    As far as your previous post is concerned, next time, use an image host. Maybe your attachment won't "disappear"

    Then again, maybe Snowden stole it to share it with the Russians.

    If you wish to make references to the founding documents of the USA, try this site. :)

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html

    That's the declaration of independence.

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

    And that's the constitution.

    Now I make no assumptions as to your country of origin, political beliefs, or mental soundness.

    -BUT-

    Statistically speaking, your posts are making you appear more and more like a political forum troll.

    With that said, trolls do not survive long at MDL.

    That's not a threat, it's a word of friendly advice. :)

    Watch what you post, and how you treat people here. MDL is chock-filled with wonderful, kind, helpful people. Most of which are -NOT- American.

    To most people here, US politics is about as attractive as a colostomy bag. And I can't say as I blame them. It's like psychotically ranting about the weather.

    Now, I know what independence day is about. During the Independence day weekend, I remind -EVERY- british person of two things:

    1) We are sisters, the USA and England.

    2) Whatever goes down, We got your back.

    That's how We roll, that's how I roll.

    Have a nice independence day. :)

    :MJ
     
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  15. Stewox

    Stewox MDL Junior Member

    Nov 22, 2013
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    #116 Stewox, Jul 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    That's a million dollar question.

    We knew years before snowden what whas going on at NSA, we got more detailed intel 6 months before Snowden https://youtu.be/ypZu_L-Zmis?t=1h32m18s

    Snowden had the name, the documents and details and confirmed some of the paid-troll operations at JTRIG (basically the whole playbook, which I advise all forums admins should study to develop defences against), but he was pretty small compared to others, on the other hand he was pretty big in terms of popularity.

    However the general public is already so zombified they just responded with "okay fine I have nothing to hide" so this acceptance of unconstitutional activity gives thems signal that the public likes it

    So that would end up that Snowden's actions didn't do much, but ofcourse he did, serious people ain't going to just forget after learning about it, that good efect might just be overshadowed by the masses so that's why it would appear like he didn't do much, but it definitely had a good effect on all the general PC people and linux heads who previously were too naive, and you don't have all these groups jabbing on social sites all day so when media takes a look at public they don't go to actual people who follow the news, they just look at sheeple on social sites. But the media can just make stuff up even if they don't find genuine material for a establishment-supporting story.

    And in the world of perception deception, it's just extremely complex to answer your question as I don't have an super-AI sitting behind my desk to calculate all the minds of what people think and all the stats, and the question is just invalid anyway, it's more of a question of how, not if, and pretty much the explanation is the answer, as things change with time.

    It definitely has changed in terms of forcing politicians to do something since they can't excuse it to be a minor issue, it has speed up the resistance to it I would say decently, I just have a problem with greenwald with releasing trickles of info and still having tons of unreleased stuff and snowden himself to not put out the whole thing if some of the media starts to stagnate.



    And this is a good nutshell:



    The bad thing is, the soft exposure (real deal stuff of blackmail is still not out there) might create a chilling effect and fear on the weak public, making them harder to speak out against such activity in the future.
     
  16. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    Okay...that makes sense to me, and explains your vitriolic response toward my post.

    There's a big difference between having "nothing to hide" and enjoying or even being apathetic to being spied on by the government or anybody else for that matter. Practically -Every- US citizen who has been here for a while knows that the Government (and every Government, for that matter) is shifty, ruthless, and operates from a different play book than the rest of their respective legal systems. There's also a big difference between "zombified acceptance" and resigning yourself to accepting a fate that can not be changed without taking drastic measures. The result of that folly is the domestic terrorist.

    And that's just too drastic for my tastes. War is hell. But holding a friend in your arms and watching him or her die because of the political ideals of a fringe group is just plain horrific.

    I had family and friends in the financial district when the planes hit the towers. My cousins walked across the Williamsburg bridge to track down my nephew because the cell phones were out, and they couldn't reach him. My friends were first responders at the WTC site. One of them, who is like a brother to me, got sick from helping out down there.

    So what can We do about the government and their antics? Absolutely jack s**t. We can rant and rave until we get labeled a conspiracy nut. We can join some militia and prance around doing mock maneuvers, preparing for the "inevitable" moment when we will rise up and topple the government in a blaze of glory.

    Does that sound sane to you? To me, it sounds totally crazy, and I'll have no part of it. The thought of hurting a dumb animal makes me sick, much less being responsible for the deaths of other Americans. Innocent Americans who, like You and I, are only trying to survive and thrive, while raising a family.

    So you asked two questions, and directed them at Me.

    1) Did I do my duty?

    Yes I did. When I served in the Armed Forces, and when I worked as an engineer in the aerospace industry.
    I had a security clearance in both cases, because I worked on sensitive electronics equipment and classified physics experiments which I could not nor would not speak about. I'll just say "directed energy" and leave it at that. ;)

    So, the government knows who I am and all about me. I'm sure that they know about my work, because some of my projects ended up in Los Alamos.

    2 ) Do I know what Independence day means?

    Yes. I do. At the time that the USA fought for Her freedom, England was a draconian task master to the colonies. We fought to rid ourselves of this tyranny. And We won.

    The world has changed. But it started to change long before Snowden. And like many "Senior Citizens", I was around to watch that change. Yes. It sucks. And it's probably illegal. It definitely rides the cusp of breaching constitutional law. But what do you do when the people in power simply rewrite the law to make their questionable actions legal?

    Myself I prioritize my concerns. I focus on things that I can change. And I accept what I can not change. :)

    You may be able to accomplish more than I can. If you can, please feel free to hammer away at the problem.

    Best of luck.

    :MJ
     
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  17. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    well, all that goes a long way to answer the original question, i think.
    and i appreciate the spirit in which you express it.
    it is perhaps the bane of a thread like this that people can just walk into
    it without even bothering to read what was said earlier.
    i know the us constitution is of vital importance to us citizens.
    perhaps if this thread had started with `has the us changed etc`
    it would have developed very differently..
    but i am not a us citizen. my perception of freedom, and freedom of
    expression, is not dependent on what is says in the us constitution.
    it is based on humanistic values that were around long before the us
    constitution was even committed to paper.
    and that is how this this thread got started with the word world in it
    instead of the word us in it..
     
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  18. Stewox

    Stewox MDL Junior Member

    Nov 22, 2013
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    #119 Stewox, Jul 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
    If you love your servitude under such circumstances and relationships, doesn't it seem that their intimidation has made you compliant unnaturally, does that feel like a real government ?


    Most americans have zero experience of war/suffering, those that do, are left to die http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4509219 http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/15/v...n-billions-spent-in-violation-of-federal-law/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI3dEsjrXXA


    The system is designed to force everyone to spend as much effort and time just trying to survive, while in this mode, you are unlikely to be very political or worried about the future and the criminal class can play your life like a violin, practically unseen.



    That's not the same at all, and I'm not going to bother on the Duty thing since it's way more complex and it can't be done by one person and a proper strategy takes much longer, serving is being ordered, so if you're ordered by a compromised government to kill Iraqi civilians and "accidentially" drop supplies to ISIS (Al-Qaeda) then it's not much of a defense of the country nor constitution.




    And 200 years later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfNi_nkRykg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AE7Wa8KFvs


    Don't be downplaying like that.


    Perception Management. They want you to think you can't, not alone really, but together we can.



    Further thoughts:

    - You serving in Military
    - Having close experience with 9/11

    The first one creates pride, the second one creates psychological trauma, this combined creates a psychological block to the information im trying to explain to you.

    But you don't need to listen to me, you can listen to your distant should-be pals: https://youtu.be/zm5E10EhSp0?t=2m34s http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2013/09/03/d0/09/4.jpg




    The subject is way too broad and it is connected with other things, a strict discussion would be pointless.
     
  19. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    which leaves me wondering why you walked into discussion in first place, if you think it pointless.
    if thought it pointless i would not have started this thread, so i disagree with you, of course.
    and i think that playing the psychologist to a fellow member is not a constructive way to communicate.
    so maybe you should try to get the hang of that, first. just my two cents.
     
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