If a tree fall in the forest --- does it make any sound?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    That is too far fetched for me, that makes everyone God. And it would require shared data using some unknown link.
    Think about this, two scientists on opposite sides of the world, unknown to each other, discover or invent the same thing. This is a write up on this.
    If your mind created everything then why would they come up with essentially the same thing ? In fact lets go one step further.
    If your reality is different from my reality for example the interpretation colour red. Why is it that if a test is offered, a vast majority of people
    will understand the red presented in the test. Remember the test would be created in the reality of the test giver.
    If you look at the tree question the internal and external reality makes more sense than the illusion one.
    When the tree falls vibrations are produced. If you want to get technical you can say if no human is around then no sound is produced.
    Since sound is the word we ascribe to the interpretation of that specific vibration. But vibrations are produced.
    The event happened whether we are there or not and the vibrations are produced. The external reality happened, we were just not present to interpret it with our internal reality.
    Quite frankly to me the illusion theory is a muddled mess, it requires too much complication and leaves too many unknowns.
     
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  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    This is your internal reality that says the external happened.
    When we determine cause and effect we frequently forget that when the idea of cause and effect is born, that there has to be one who had perceived the cause and effect and determined it to be like this.

    So the event consists of observer cause and effect it's a trinity. And if one of those three is absent then the event is not existent! The cause and effect never would have been born without the observer.

    So how is your dream settled? It is also your internal reality which I simply call illusionary world.
     
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  3. 8eviathan

    8eviathan MDL Novice

    Jun 11, 2012
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    The tree was named
    Windows® 8
    and that was quite clear
    that he falls over
    without a noise !
    :)
     
  4. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    If we create this illusionary world then why do bad things happen to some of us in it ? Would you will something bad on yourself ?
     
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  5. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #105 redroad, Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
    @R29k There exists in each of us, IMHO of course, a part that does not have our best interest and the best interest of all, at the core of our daily life.. So you can exorcise your demons or exercise your demons, your choice.
     
  6. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Brings in unknowns and you still have to realise that the demons or whatever are all illusions.
     
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  7. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    Yes and of our own making.. Why is the "make believe" reality of children so readily accepted by society but when said child reaches adulthood she or he might be cast out for entertaining such a reality? I do accept this as fact, that only the truth is true but what the truth is I will have to get back to you on that..
     
  8. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    You are born you go through life with a positive attitude, you get married and have kids and at 41 you go to doctor and he says you have cancer and will die in 18 months.
    Who is the one willing this to happen? There are many people who get hit by something they never saw coming. You could go out your front door and get hit by a car. Am I to
    believe that the victims created this ? :eek:
     
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  9. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    The inner workings that promote health on a micro or macro scale are influenced by all other things.. Who knows maybe watching Fox news causes cancer..
     
  10. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Fox news IS cancer :laie:
     
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  11. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    The cancer is there because the person needs to learn certain aspects in this "life". Cancer is the wake-up call: the time of changing is HERE. So, change.

    If I get hit by a bus or a brick falls on my head and I "die"...this means my work is done here and I have to move on and at the same time people around me (family, friends) need to learn their respective lessons.
    There are no victims nor aggressors, but pupils and lessons.
    And a person will face the same situation again and again and again, until he/she learns the lesson. Easy as that.
    The person has to subside to the idea of controlling things, times, events. When a person subsides the control, then it becomes the real person shines through. And PEACE arises.
     
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  12. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #112 redroad, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
    A more macro view is my current experience.. So the lesson is global, more Gaia .. For me if we isolate ourselves from the Self and our experience is then self, then the lesson is repeated..If we recognize and experience the Self we are part of an experience of Global healing and the lesson can be collectively learned, collectively we are the Self and our collective [FONT=&amp]responsibility[/FONT] is realized. Adversely if we maintain self we are part of the unhealed and maintain the unlearned lesson..
     
  13. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Still doesn't answer the question, who is creating all this the cancer and the accident etc. Just another theory being pushed forward. :eek_yello:
     
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  14. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

    Oct 15, 2011
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    Everything that we experience - say (experiencing the color is still an experience) is our brain's interpretation of what our senses are relying to us.Color means nothing to those who cannot see. I'm not saying that color is a figment of our imagination. I'm saying that how we see or experience it is a construct of our mind based upon the information it receives. So I can say that we don't see with our eyes. we "see" with our brain, all that our eyes do is collect light and the rest is done by the brain/mind.

    Color red is a subjective interpretation of EM waves in the frequency range of 400-484 T.Hz. Outside conscious perception only the EM waves will be present and EM waves have no color. They have only frequency and wave length. When they strike the retina of an eye, an electro- chemical signal is sent to the brain. When the brain process that in formation a feeling is created in the mind and we call that feeling, red, green, blue etc. Also, our eye can sense only three frequencies corresponding to red, green and blue and the rest of the color feelings including white color are synthetically generated by the brain.
    Perception is not at all limited to witnessing an event at the time of its occurrence. Perception is all we can experience in any sense. Here we are talking about no experience at all. If you cannot experience something how would you even know or think that the thing is there or an event happened. The very concept of reality or world the way we see it, begins with our experience.
     
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  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    You are creating all that! Yes who else? But also you create 'the victims', cancer and your body and your false identity

    The Christians say :"God moves in mysterious ways" And I've found this statement odd and still do, because it isn't of any help.

    So one can believe life is unfair and cruel. And say: "God does not exist, because if he would he never let that cruel happen".....

    So how to learn?
    It's like:
    One is driving a car and hits a wall. And after the one comlplains that he is injured and the car is damaged. And the one repeats that all the time
    But he doesn't stop. He drives the car again, hits the wall and complains about.

    This is like to complain about a fact: Objects are (created) born and will (vanish) die.
    It's like to complain about cancer.
    Constant change is the attribute of time. When one has a look at a tree's leaves and noticed of one that is necrotic, does one think about cancer? Does he care about?
    No, because the one thinks to be not the leaf, but his body.

    Instead of complaining about a condition (an object's compelling condition to be born is that it has to die). The object's core of death is born with it.
    Instead of one should stop to drive the car. It is that simple.
    This means stop to complain about cancer. To complain about it again and again is the same as to drive the car again and again and to crash it and to injure yourself.

    "And a person will face the same situation again and again and again, until he/she learns the lesson. Easy as that."
    Yes, one has to drive his car towards the wall until he stops that.
    So are we lost now?

    We not but our false idea of us!
    We are here to resolve this. Without this false idea we wouldn't be here.

    Illusionary world is doom and salvation, hell and heaven. One is creating his own. There is no god convicting somebody.
    It is the false identity. To come home to him means to give up your false idea.

    In duality there can't be an absolute object existent. So if one creates brightness, there is darkness created. One cannot perceive brightness without to know darkness. Also with good/bad. Positive/ negative.

    So if you intend to gain positive things you create negative things at once. Positive things do not exist without negative things.

    Positive thinking is as useless as negative thinking. The glass is half full of water or half empty. Both is the same in Reality.
    ALL Religions are made to give up our false idea of ourself.

    The mind creates objects: They appear to be different to 'us'. One of that object appears to be as pseudo subject.
    This is our false I idea which appears as body and mind.
    But there is a cause. THIS cause is existent without the mind. This is yourSelf and this is eternal.

    And yes I speak it out: This is the one without a second. So your Reality cannot and is NOT different to god also not different to yourSelf.

    Why are most worried about to speak out that truth? It is not the 'I' idea that is god, not the ego!

    I mySelf cannot maintain happiness without to know:

    I do not live in the world. There is no indepentent world outside, there are no objects per se.
    The world is within me. The mind creates an illusionary character of the Reality, our own individual (internal) realities. It appears as pseudo subject ('I' idea) and objects (non 'I').
    I am not my body. There are experiments proving this and I have experienced this.

    And I know the Self unveils when the mind stands still.

    The Self cannot be explained! As soon one tries it one explains every-thing, but the Self!
    It simply IS. Stop the car. Stop self-alientaing.
    The Self is like the ocean floor. When wavy it isn't clearly present. The waves are your thoughts in your mind.
    A calm mind reflects the Self without distraction (refraction of sunlight of the wavy water).....

    This I don't believe, this all I have experienced.

    Everybody has to maintain his happiness using what is right to him....and hence I never have the power to teach. But I know that what is real will unveil.

    (Even though I guess here is no other choice. Being the body one will die.)

    A wise man once has said to me: Before you think you have to die think about if you were born!
    It is your body that was born and will have to die.......

    I thought.....either he is totally wrong or I cannot be my body.



    This is a quote from Buddha, without your intention to post like this, lol.
    Buddha has said: The body doesn't have cancer the body IS cancer.


    One remark about the color red:
    The color red is illusional and relative. My red can never be yours.
    The fact that the color red can have different names proves its illusional character already. Red, rojo / roja, rosso, rot.
    Can you really perceive the color red? I mean really? It's a special individual sensation which you name 'red' but the color itself cannot be seen. What red is real? Red or rot? Rosso or roja?
    Do I need to elaborate this? :biggrin:
     
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  16. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    @sid_16 All I am saying above is in reference to the theory being brought up by Yen that everything is an illusion, even us. In that case your red and my red are two different things. If I put a red mark on a piece of paper it will be my idea of red. If this is all true then why can you recognize whatever I put as red ? Wouldn't it have to coincide with your perception ? In fact you can say that your don't need light to see red, since the process of seeing is an illusion. In fact you don't even need blood or organs to live, why can't we get rid of those? I may even be able to walk through the wall in front of me since the wall is an illusion in my mind.
    :eek_yello:I know it's a muddled confusing mess. If the world is an illusion created by the mind then anything is possible. We are effectively God.
     
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  17. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    #117 SOCRATE_MMXII, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
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  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Thanks. :)


    Anyway we should not forget that my posts and any movies and any posts are actually useless if nobody makes the effort in life practice.

    The 'real reality' is an experience and cannot be watched, pondered about, or explained.

    But it's right. Since it's all about the mind we need to address the mind first. Hence our intention to post here.
    Intellectual understandings are only the first step. To 'experience it' the next and to be that experience all the time the last.
    So I should add to each post forget what I have posted, lol. :biggrin:
     
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  19. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    At the end of the movie, Nassim parctically said the same thing: we should live like infinite beings living in the Universe, not confined in the boundaries of the world fighting for resources.
    He's a WAKED-UP physicist - that I'm sure. ;)
     
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  20. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Some might think Buddha or any wise men / women had lived, are living or will live.....
    One who lives the Self, is eternally 'here' and not different to the eternal. 'Their' bodies are gone are or will be, but not the truth. It IS. "Tat Tvam Asi" You are that (truth).
     
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