The fact that a global group of people, with such varied points of view, can foster a dialogue on these matters, however clumsy we may be at it, is a testament to our common humanity .. All my relations
But with higher knowing from within, we have standstill cause the common denominator in current relations is competition and control and projecting of fear onto what is not known or unfamiliar And no one want's to give control to others because of insecurities and mass predisposition so as sad or limited as it may sound, one must leave the comfortability of usual thought and understandings/proofs and enter into an, for lack of better word, the imaginative realm, which science/atheists will continually mock and place their findings which are partial in front of and in greater precedence than the Shamans world So it's a standstill and moot point to discuss this topic any further especially when the OP likes science and science does not deliver understandings of God cause God is not partial but science is partial This is not to invalidate how far science has come, nor to mock it's services in health care and helping the environment but we're dealing with two different languages for lack of better description! Here are some analogies: PC formats their drives different that MAC, so if you try to read the data with the other platform it won't make sense and we all know their is constant rively between MAC and PC just like this thread between partial science and the shamans knowing from within! Another analogy is a record player If you play a 45 at the pace of an 33 then it won't sound right So as narrow minded as it may sound, the worlds prophecies state a new religion to come, that is of it's own science and that governs all equally so most have to abandon science as we know it and religion too, to experience an all encompasing perspective or way of knowing in an complete way Not really responding to your post as to adding to it
yes, agreed .. What comes to mind is learning to swim .. Let's say there is a group of people who live on a small island .. The natural resources are now dwindling and the only way off the island is to swim but everyone there has a fear of swimming because for generations anyone who has attempted swimming away has never returned so the people all share fear of water .. To save themselves they each must immerse themselves in the water to begin to learn how to swim
What .gif, do you mean :boob: Hey long time no see... But the atheists will just say build a boat ...lol...or they will just create genocide so the resources will last ...lol <--- I know harsh but a true story called "global indigenous genocide" And to the atheist it is very hard to think that this person the true Shaman who knows from within is somehow separate from the rest of humanity or has a greater perspective because prophecies say all are lost and have amnesia of God or source of life, so what he is doing to accomplish this must be very dangerous or anti-christ in nature and let's kill all indigenous just to be safe or have control over any possible outside influence that would take away from the science based corporate/industrial agenda needing to get credit for all discoveries so they can market them back to the masses for a fee Funny how threatened people are of what they don't know or can't control I think that there is a pre/post historical state of mind and that is kept by the shaman like someone keeping eternity/time in their heart so it isn't forgotten, but the great forgetting plagues everyone almost and I cleared my amnesia of God for some time when I was "younger" and it is pretty hard to believe, but yet did happen and I have recall of total recall for lack of a better word. Most never get to even recall of clearing amnesia let alone retain some memory of having accomplished it He'res the realization regarding competition! Do we go into the science thread and compete with them...lol No we don't hence who is insecure of any information that can't be owned or controlled like the true Shaman stating he knows something (Why don't they have science thread to come up with unified field theory) and would we go into that thread and invalidate what they have so far? Maybe science has gone as far as it can, in only measuring in artificial methods the physical but not what the physical is animated from, the Great Spirit or soul of all life... The perspective I've had my whole life is the same as a true Shaman, and it looks like there is an unmanifest and a manifest and eternity is the clutch that controls what becomes manifest like a Shaman turning into a wolf or the wind because he is resonate with what creates, changes and dissolves the physical, the eternal soul based in now centered time! And ultimately the OP and his topic might be in conflict with each other and I wonder is the topic designed to disprove god not define if he is all encompassing with one will throughout all of creation including but not limited to the creature called Human being Manifest.....................God....................Unmanifest It is a great divide and only what is complete can fill it
Since we never arrive on a common viewpoint, how about we part ways? You stop using operating systems by atheists, i.e. any OS that's Windows, MacOS or Linux and devices made by scientists, i.e. computers, routers, TV, anything with electricity or a battery. You never visit a doctor again if you break a leg or get an infection,. You walk everywhere by foot. You don't freeze your food. If you're hungry, off you go hunting or picking berries. Don't even make fire. Deal? Edit: The whole world is what it is today thanks to science. To basically sit on that mountain of effort, reap all the benefits of it and then cover your eyes and ears and disregard science is the pinnacle of hipocrisy.
@ timesurfer.. you called this thread a romantic comedy. and said it could be closed.. and you continue to post in it, after that.. i pointed out it was no longer a serious discussion. i appreciate it when redroad points out that quote The fact that a global group of people, with such varied points of view, can foster a dialogue on these matters, however clumsy we may be at it, is a testament to our common humanity .. unquote and when michaela joy says quote Respect each other. Show tolerance. And when things get out of hand, do what must be done to protect the weak and the innocent unquote. those thoughts are simply true.. dividing people into two camps, either shamans or atheists, will do no good. yes i am an atheist. for better or worse. does not mean i do not respect folks who are not. or that i will not listen to them. i will. for me, it is not so much a coin with just two sides to it, as a die with 6 sides to it. and all those spiritual thoughts disregard five other sides of that old die, imho.. just my 2 cents.
Hundreds of years ago, scientific concepts that we hold true today were considered magick. But those who had a belief (Yes...I said. A belief) perservered and developed the diagnostic tools and the formulae that proved the "magick" was nothing more than a scientific phenomina. Who can say what truths will avail themselves to us in the future? http://www.hpe.com/life/x1626689805/Neurosurgeons-near-death-experience-changes-his-opinion Take a look at this story. And know that there are literally thousands of stories like this one out there. Is it definitive proof? To some, yes. To others, no. Personally, I'll buy into the "myth" simply because it gives me peace and comfort. But remember: I'm not trying to convince -anybody- to believe in -anything-. I'm simply sharing my feelings with you. As always, you have free will to choose to believe in whatever you want.
Science is curiosity played out through rational thinking. Those who consider something strange to be magic before giving it a rational thought are mostly the spiritualists. The scientists had no "belief" that what they found would be what it is. They simply observed and _thought_ about a theory that could explain it. You are constantly trying to switch the roles of faith and science by some funny play of words while completely misunderstanding even the word scientific. A phenomenon can't be scientific. It's a string of facts happening that you can observe. What you make of it can be scientific or not. Again, a little picture of what's going on here:
Deal and any mercy or compassion you never need ok! No love or brotherhood of man! All you need is your machine...lol "Outside apparatus" to describe life...lol And yea we have science to thank for an unsustainable future, yea thanks TCM/science your awesome...lol We have you to thank for pollution, the war machine, materialism and hoarding over resources and creating slaves to work and earn those resources back from those in power and with weapons of mass destruction People are already divided so don't blame someone from defining the two and if the athiest and science can't unify a world cause they worship science as their go to man which lacks a unified field then also don't blame those who point that out Actually hidden prophecy describes the six sides of the 3rd dimension like a cube with the 7th being the center where God rests on the 7th day of creation which is actually a model of the universe but not based in a fictional big bang theory It doesn't even matter if you are trying to convince someone or not cause the Shamanic truth lies within everything giving science nothing to sell or market back to the world like their gods coming down with gifts. These gifts are already with us and inherant and self-existing! You trying to share an non-traditional truth is not a crime so don't feel bad Actually science does have belief in what they want to find, and it's called theories...lol Not rational thinking but fictional thinking based on no inside investigation but outside guestimation...lol A phenomenon is without needing to to be defined! It is self-existing unto itself but indeed observing through non-neutral and completely biased opinions since science is never original but always going off what was previously thought to be true which changes from time to time, hence science it really an ongoing incomplete update always basing itself on what was previously found...lol Hence mad science experiment not true investigation of the complete cosmos The world is flat, lets go off that for a while and see what we get ...lol O wait, that wasn't right, lets' go off the fictional big bang theory and see what we get, oh wait now we're creating an unsustainable future, s@#t p.s Bunny's and Ducks, that in line with hugging and you despise hugging ...lol OMG Science is like innocent bunnies being curious ...lol
We will always share our humanity TCM .. The mountain of effort looks like this from where I'm sitting
And still you're using your computer to make broad claims. As if materialism and hoarding over resources is a novel concept that only exists because humanity made scientific progress. All these bad things you describe are due to bad people, not science. Since the beginning of humans there was the tribal us-vs-them mentality that lead to cracked skulls and dead bodies. You basically attribute that human behaviour solely to science. Tell me, the people in control of atom bombs, are those scientists or.. say.. the other ones? Who invaded Afghanistan again and in whose name? Which scientist did launch a nuclear missile? Science can't prevent bad people from reaping its fruits and do bad things with them. Bad things happening after scientific progress doesn't mean scientific progress is the cause of bad things. You are again the vicitim of your own flawed logic (while still using a computer). It has baffled me since this whole thread started how you can be an "MDL developer". Programmers are mostly computer scientists(!) and experts in logic. Edit: So we shouldn't make any progress at all, sit in our caves, smoke our dope and make stuff up. Got it. You're a good teacher at it. And again I ask you to go ahead and stop using computers. It would truly be helping.
Yes, indeed, it's fabulous. Instruments and voice recorded and transmitted over thousands of kilometers for us both to enjoy. Not my type of music, though.
Science makes broad claims and their called fictional theories ...lol Right there are no bad people in science just innocent bunnies being curious ...lol Well the indigenous didn't land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on them so... Yea partial science influences and governs the minds of most since all children are schooled in science not the beliefs of nature based Shamans Great now people with no scientific background are in charge of weapons of mass destruction, awesome...lol When you have a science that is not as sacred as the reality it investigates, only bad things can happen as a result of arrogance and without ethics and actually everyone knows I'm an idea person not a coder, although I did 50% of the code of D420 but came up with 90% of all the ideas cause I use my imagination for what would better InfiniteRearm6 (IR6) and InfiniteOfficeRestoreRearmTask (IORRT) not analyzing I never made anything up, that's you feeling threatened by my "experience" which isn't validated by your partial science and partial logic. I would not recommend smoking your dope but if your doctor recommends medical marijuana for your anxiety thus consequential behavior problems, then ok follow his instructions I never blamed using physical things or inventions as bad for in the right mind they can be tools for communications, but in the case of the unfeeling and selfish agendas of the corporate/industrial sadistic agenda, then yea they can create an unsustainable future for everyone, including the indigenous, what is left of them after the corporate/industrial/false religious sadists played evil false god via genocide unto nature worshiping mostly peaceful people's
Timey, I feel for you... Suffering can't be a good thing... unless you're gonna create something really worthwhile and emancipating... in the end... Btw, I wonder if you would consider just one thing: not using your washing machine or a launderette... for a year... Hm?
Thanks for your vindicating words, I really appreciate your truly genuine post! I guess since the corporate/industrial fascists own and govern all rivers and waterways, I guess under their gun I have to use machine to clean my clothes instead of walking down to the river and using natural and sustainable non-toxic methods of doing my load ...lol You got me there ...lol Wow, you guys are really refining your "logic" since it's last incomplete partial science update (IPSU) ...lol The Matirx has you...
Keep babbling, avoiding argument and attacking people by quoting in your childish way. And you call yourself enlightened. You have the mental capacity of a juvenile. I feel like trying to argue with a poo-flinging monkey. Ridiculous. I can only seriously pity the school system that you went through, if any. Edit: Apologists won't read it anyway, but there: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-stenger/religion-and-science-_b_2719280.html
No, science is not explaining how things are and were. Science is offering an idea, a model of reality, which will be established if enough individuals are able to reproduce the illusion. Hence it covers ‘only’ a limited complex of objects, their attributes and their relations to each other. If enough scientific minds are discovering that another complex of relations does not fit to the ‘old’ one then one needs to be created that brings both illusions in line. If that shouldn’t be possible anymore then a new paradigm is born. Science is a religion to most scientists since they use it as replacement for god. They ‘believe’ in their ability to explain the reality. Hidden in this is also the same mechanism: Ego=god. The effort one needs to make -to study- strengthens this illusion even more by strengthening the illusionary ‘ego’. When I teach my students I make clear that we are talking of models, not of the reality. Inside of the objectified realty science has its validity. To ‘measure’ the reality one would need endless time (in the time), or the timelessness of the present moment. Consider how science has become that what it is today. One single change of one single individual (scientist) and we would have another idea of reality. But it is still science, which shall be able to explain how things are really working? You are writing about spiritualists and scientists, means your ideas of them. What represents the box? God or established science? And even if the puzzle should be completed duck or no duck are two different ideas of one reality. The fact that ‘duck’ has different names in different languages is evidence enough that each individual has its own reality, which is not ‘the’ reality. The difference of science and religion is in one’s mind. It is just an idea. The (re-)union of both happens in one’s Self by recognizing that they never were separated. The source you have posted was written by an author who is not able to resolve that barrier. He wants to state that this barrier is real. At this point he’s completely wrong. And may I remind that you are trying to offend / attack TS. Isn’t it exactly the same you are complaining about? This is an example of irrational behavior, actually that what science never tolerates.
Timey, you have a capacity to make a choice and move where the rivers/waters are still clean... and keep them "clean" by mucking it up for the rest of us downstream... Btw, do you keep buying and wearing any kind of plastics? Yen, too much in there, as per usual... but... You mean to say that this is YOUR idea re. the relationship in question, i.e. how YOU imagine these things are/could be... My point here is: it would be good if you could learn how to qualify your statements... Especially in the area that you have no proper expertise... No offence intended, I assure you!!!
Trouble with PC, so I missed this one... But it's juicy, so I must respond, Mummy, I must... Have you slept over the first primary school lessons in maths? It's simple: one must defend oneself from those who would use the idea of tolerance to institute the idea of intolerance. No way out! All your fluffy babbling about this won't change it. At the end of the day one must stand up to the intolerant, physically, if need be! Basta! More fluffy babbling, where you imagine you are a Philosopher... Not really. Super-Human by definition is not God. We were talking about superiority to other Humans, being "in charge", having power over others, i.e. "will to power" but not as "fulfilling one's potential" - rather, "will for political, military, economic etc. power over others". In Human terms. No religious babbling allowed! WTF?!? You just love babbling as if you were a Philosopher, eh? Hence, I will stop here, as I will die laughing, if I continue...