If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    36 vote(s)
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  2. If no, then how?

    44 vote(s)
    55.0%
  1. vze2mp9g

    vze2mp9g MDL Addicted

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    Research the word "SOUL", and it talks about "soul sleep". The myth of an afterlife s taken from the Egyptians. No one as actually described what a soul is.
     
  2. Yen

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    #2042 Yen, Jul 22, 2019
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    How do you differentiate 'myths' (afterlife) from 'does exist' (soul)?
    The soul as being an eternal concept and human life as a temporary.
    Wouldn't it be related to after-life?
     
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  3. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    The Old Testament does not speak of hell. Only of the kingdom of Heaven.

    The new testament speaks of eternal damnation, but that means to be forever blocked from G_D's light and love.
    That could mean being stuck in this world until you "get it right".

    Many spiritual belief systems speak of the concept of karmic debt. (i.e. You pay for your sins.)

    If you take a life, you must accept stewardship for that life for many lifetimes to come.

    Even down to the smallest of things, we can receive karmic "payback".

    A simple example is being rude to some soul, and at some later time, some other soul being rude to you.

    Personally, I worry about that. I try to lead with a good heart. That seems to draw good souls to me.
    I can't prove it, but it seems to happen that way.
     
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  4. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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  5. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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    u talking about reincarnation i believe in that this is hell u keep coming back until u get it right...i think i been here many times i keep screwing it up i dont know how much more i can take i dont want to keep coming back:(
     
  6. Yen

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    #2046 Yen, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    No it's not hell. Heaven and Hell have no notion at Buddhism / Hinduism, reincarnation has.
    Both are typically Christianity related.

    It's samsara (constant hiking). Reincarnation means literally to get back into flesh. It means You are identified with a physical body (tied to it by idea). The different forms are illustrated by a wheel of rebirths. A classic theme for arts (have got one painted from a Nepalese monk)....

    To get rid of it is possible any time, though. You don't have to wait for your physical death. The 'outbreak' comes along with enlightenment.

    This 'linking' happens every moment. YOU is eternally first and a split second later there is your idea of yourself and as dualistic counterpart 'the world outside'.

    This (enforced) idea is called delusion. Your idea of yourself and thoughts about any-thing.
    Your separation as individual being that has a temporary life.

    BTW: The OT is originally Hebrew and the NT is Greek.

    The terms Heaven and Hell have been abused by authoritarian Christians to create fear and obedience.
    Whether 'Hell' is present in OT/NT or not is also a question of proper translation. (Scheol/Hades).

    Kingdom of Heaven is present. Although it's not meant to be the sky.

    Jesus spoke of 2 dimensions. 'The world' and 'kingdom of heaven'.
    The world = form, appearance. What you see, hear, feel, touch, or think about....
    Kingdom of heaven: Which is Eternal life.

    As one can see the 'concept' is similar though.
    Kingdom of Heaven / the world
    Self / idea of myself - the world outside
    Or simply Subject / Object


    It happens that way. :)
    I'd say it follows something like natural law:" You cannot receive what you don't give. Outflow determines inflow." This includes abundance.
     
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  7. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    There is the real world in which in live in for our daily lives and there is a "spiritual world", one that we can not see. This spiritual world, we think there's something else out there. People have witnessed that they do encounter "spirits" ....Whether good or bad.
    The earliest letters of the new testament (not as books per se) were originally written by the Apostles or their scribes that accompanied them. These letters were to the early Churches as they were starting their beginnings. Some of these letters were written in Aramaic, Hebrew and or Greek. When the letters to the churches were put into the book we now refer to as the New Testament (sometime around the first or second century), it was translated into Greek because Greek was the common tongue back then. Kinda like we use English here in this forum as a common tongue today.
     
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  8. boyonthebus

    boyonthebus MDL Expert

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    Yes. The Christian Church invented Hell to scare people into believing in Jesus. LOL I also believe as you @Michaela Joy .
     
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  9. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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  10. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    I agree. Religion has always been about power and control.

    I heard a statement made by someone. It rings true with me.

    "Religion divides us...Spirituality unites us."
     
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  11. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    It's very difficult to deny the existence that Jesus of Nazareth, The issue with the Christ is what they believe who Jesus was and what he did. It's true that the OT did not mention hell, not until the arrival of Jesus Christ was hell described in any way. In the sense that it is to be apart from God after our life on Earth. The book of Revelations mentions the fire and brimstone parts of hell, and if you have ever read the book of Revelations you'd know that no ordinary person could write such a book in the first century A.D.
     
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  12. Yen

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    I only know one of the first concerning NT was a letter of Apostle Paul(us) to the parish of Thessalonica around 50 A.D. Language I don't know. But generally the NT was written in Greek common speech 'scriptio continua'.
    It also contained snippets in Aramaic (native of Jesus), though.

    The OT's Hebrew was firstly something that looked like Egyptian hieroglyphics. Old Phoenician.
    Also the OT contained Aramaic language. Also square script played a role.

    It's a complex long process we still don't know anything about.
     
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  13. boyonthebus

    boyonthebus MDL Expert

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    Religion is man-made, Spirituality is G_d-made.
     
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  14. boyonthebus

    boyonthebus MDL Expert

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    The Council of Nicaea voted to determine whether Jesus was the son of G_d or a prophet. By majority vote he was determined to be the son of G_d. I suppose it could have gone either way.
     
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  15. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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    Well is total misinterpretation Jesus is GOD in human form is another reincarnation he comes to earth as human ... i never believe hes son of GOD he just another man.
     
  16. vze2mp9g

    vze2mp9g MDL Addicted

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    Yes, I agree that Jesus was an ordinary Mortal Man like the rest of us.

    Remember the New Testament was written approximately thirty years after Jesus. Jesus, Holy Spirit (GOD (no Holy Spirit)), and GOD are not Divine. This was all made up by
    .

    They had to make Jesus bigger than what he was. The Roman Catholic Church is a very big money maker just like the rest of the other religions.
     
  17. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @vze2mp9g: Take a look at the Arian Controversy.

    Basically, this the teaching of the Jewish faith (i.e. There is only one G_D, and He is to be worshiped above all others.)

    (1st Commandment)

    This creates a rift between Jews, Muslims and Christians, in that Christianity is idolatry.
    (Their words...not mine. )

    Yeshu'a specifically said do not worship me, but worship my father.
     
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  18. boyonthebus

    boyonthebus MDL Expert

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    I was raised in the Christian faith, but have since abandoned it. It borrows from many other religions. The concept of a god impregnating a mortal was not a new concept. The Greek and Roman gods did this all the time. Also, contrary to what it says in the Christian (stripped-down) Ten Commandments, they have many gods, deities, or whatever with many variants of the religion worshipping or at least recognizing god-like figures such as Satan. Then you must consider all the Roman Catholic Saints, and Jesus' mother Mary. Since back then religion was the government, and the government was religion one religion was needed by the Romans to pull all the people together. Therefore it is all about control. As Karl Marx once said, Religion is the Opiate of the masses (or something to that effect.) Religion keeps everyone subdued so the rulers can rule.
     
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  19. app_raiser

    app_raiser MDL Junior Member

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  20. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #2060 Joe C, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    The Jewish beliefs and Christian faiths are much closer than you think. They both believe in one true God (as in "Abba/Father") above all other things. Christians know Jesus is God (as in "Son") and there is the Holy Spirit, which is the same God too. This makes up the Holy Trinity of the Christian faith.
    The Jews believe that Jesus Christ was just a prophet, I can't comment on the Muslim faith, but I think the Muslims do believe that Jesus did exist

    @boyonthebus Many people confuse religious doctrine with the faith. There is a difference but if your not understanding then you won't know this difference. It's this whole "doctrine" thing that was the reason the Christ came here for, because it shattered many of the doctrines of the old Rabbinical laws (the reason they killed Jesus) . We do need some doctrines to keep everything together but there's some that will stray too far from real faith
     
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