If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    36 vote(s)
    45.0%
  2. If no, then how?

    44 vote(s)
    55.0%
  1. boyonthebus

    boyonthebus MDL Expert

    Sep 16, 2018
    1,168
    753
    60
    I believe they are quite far apart. But then, that is my opinion.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
    35
    1
    0
    why are we here? :)
     
  3. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,507
    2,082
    120
    Why is there air? :)
    --- Bill Cosby
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. vze2mp9g

    vze2mp9g MDL Addicted

    Oct 13, 2012
    660
    117
    30
    Let's make this simple. Jesus was born, grew up like everyone else (his father was a carpenter (carpenters made good money)), became a Rabi (Rabi made good money like they do today, so Jesus was NOT poor), he was put to death, rose from the dead after being dead for forty hours (not three days Fri 3:00 pm to Sun 7:00 am). Then Jesus went of with Mary Magdalen, preached, they had a family and died a natural dead. End of story.
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    I also was raised in the Christian faith. I was christened and confirmed. (That was just traditional at my small home town).
    In puberty I broke with that....people said how could I and my parents were made responsible for it. People talked bad about...

    At the same time I had interests for science. With 12 years then Chemistry. I became a scientist totally denying any Religion and faith. Also spirituality...
    In the early 20s of my life then I started to travel.....I became familiar with Buddhism and was surprised how well it fits to science. Later then some stuff from the very complex Hinduism.
    In the mid 30s then I came back to Christianity. I found similarities....and I found out that every Religion had its heyday during history where the original spiritual power could shine...

    It's actually not Religion that divides. It's the people who simply do not get that Scriptures are thoughts which are written down and do belong to 'the world'. They are not the truth, but can point to it.

    Now having passed mid of my lifetime the scientist and spiritualist with some love to Buddhism / Christianity can very well coexist..

    Jesus was one of the first enlightened human on earth. Yes a very ordinary and simple man. (After Buddha and Lǎozǐ) and many who did not attract historical attention.

    Yes, they are not G_D how could they?
    Jesus is son of G_D. This is a Christian metaphor. It's always the same with metaphors. Either one can have a reasonable interpretation with which one can agree or can disagree.

    They have got that their true being is reasoned in Being itself and all Being is united in One being which is the Subject = G_D. Finally there is only G_D.
    Buddhists do not know god. Buddha was clever enough not to create a superbeing which could be abused. They have the buddhanature there. Buddha = awakened
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
    35
    1
    0
    51% is a majority.

    51% of ppl decide by virtue of [lol] their makeup being 51% of ? [it] which has influences on the rest of each one, within.
    as said by '?' [am not sure. the words used here are incomplete, apols for this]

    'all is made of atoms. the rest is opinion'.

    [ even [and mostly] god! ]
     
  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #2067 Yen, Jul 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
    The term atom comes from Greek 'atomos' literally undividable. But actually an ion is already only a part of it or has more electrons.(Chemistry). And if you go to nuclear Physics you know it is dividable, because an atom consists of further sub-particles which themselves consist of further sub-particles.

    To say : "All is made of atoms" is non-significant and wrong and it denies the particle wave dualism.
    There is a dilemma creating dualisms. By saying that you do exclude 'anything that is not made of atoms'.

    When we say: "This is an A". We do categorize by assigning a human meaning to something without to know what it really is (its nature / subject).

    We for instance categorize by size. There is a strict order and system. The smaller particles / objects have always a larger amount (existence) than the bigger ones.

    There are more quarks than protons and neutrons.
    There are more protons and neutrons than atoms.
    There are more atoms than molecules.
    There are more molecules than biological cells.
    There are more biological cells than living beings.

    Or:
    There are more planets than solar systems.
    There are more solar systems than galaxies.

    Quarks and Leptons are known to be undividable until today. Anyway if you hunt them they become 'blurred'...and we do not really know what they are and as conclusion we do not know any-thing that is made of them.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,507
    2,082
    120
    #2068 Joe C, Jul 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
    It does require faith to believe in God, and faith requires no substance. It's kinda like the wind. You can't see the air and wind with your eyes but we know it is there
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    -faith
    -Intellectual approach: The mentioned strict system: A bigger idea includes the idea that is 'below'. The 'bigger idea' is always of lesser amount / count. It 'ends' at One.
    -direct perception. A condition where the categorizing mind stands still.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
    35
    1
    0
    #2070 de crust, Jul 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
    one can jump around for all and sundry, or just for oneself.
    one can go as mad as brushes do [loads of these, everywhere]
    but, ''fact'' is,

    the real is outside as in, beyond visual.

    whereas,
    the unreal is ''inside'' along with all of it's visuals.

    a very, very, very...fine and very, very, very thin line, does seperate the two...
    and thus being, the differ.

    not being personal here at all.
    just factual.
    wud u, do you see? :)

    edit: there are 7.6 Billion + 'fractals' here now...
    they all bear 'Mandlebrot Set' as their scar carriers and bearers.
    Mandlebrot Set is or appears to be, the Main Men, here within and so says all of us... :)

    t.h. instead of t.g.
    one does not know with unknowns, sure one doesn't?

    wooohooo! glory days bee acomin' and comin' soon.
    these finally will be 'men's' and de ole woman's day too.
    pooah ole woman, can't do right by way of de wrong.

    A-men. [a] group of man. :)
     
  11. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

    Nov 30, 2014
    4,656
    1,361
    150
    OH boy looks like this thread is attracting all crazies;)
     
  12. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    4,068
    4,649
    150
    #2072 Michaela Joy, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
    @Joe C: I couldn't agree more with you. :)

    Take a look at this.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_in_Judaism

    There is an argument going among Jews today that Yeshu'a was / is the Messiach.

    (You might have heard of "Jews for Jesus".)

    As Yen pointed out, there is modern day Hebrew and there's Biblical Hebrew,
    but there seems to be some implications that the name Yeshu'a appears in Beris**t (Genesis)

    https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

    I'm no Hebrew scholar, but I hope it's true.

    This pages explains the Islamic point of view.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

    I get chills when I read the paragraph that says Yeshu'a and the Mahdi will team up to defeat the Anti-Christ.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
    35
    1
    0
    #2073 de crust, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
    it IS a very, very, very big world ain' it? :)

    'nuff for everybody.

    hands on the reigns. else, the rains all over ur hands and other bits[maybe].

    as said by sooo many, so many times, it's ur call, ur ''choosen' ''.

    [is it?] :)

    live and let...[die?].
    then do same.
    humour eases easily,
    most [mento-emoto] hungers and sicknesses.
    no efforts, no gains...not the pained way[''], please. done that one to death... :)
    yeah, it was...done.

    ya gots to laff as ur headin' home!
    which wud u rather?

    P.S. Cr, St, Na, & Young...'we got to get ourselves, back to the garden', the 'launch pad'!
     
  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    That's plain rubbish.
    No. I am still clear-minded.

    BTW: Is your alter ego chris-888? :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,507
    2,082
    120
    Sounds like chris-888 to me and he's never come off that bad acid trip as of yet
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

    Nov 30, 2014
    4,656
    1,361
    150
    that is some killer acid he on ;)
     
  17. vze2mp9g

    vze2mp9g MDL Addicted

    Oct 13, 2012
    660
    117
    30
    I know. Everyone is an expert! Just accept life as it is and do the best you can, and life will go on as usual. There is only one God, and that's it.
     
  18. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
    35
    1
    0
    #2078 de crust, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    a strange and odd dog this one that is spoken of...

    dogs do not go backwards normally, naturally, do they?

    urs does via 'Word', apparently :(
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    13,101
    14,047
    340
    #2079 Yen, Aug 3, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
    Yeah sure. BUT have you ever learned to argue properly?
    Have you ever seen a waterfall going up or a shower?
    No, and that's why you are totally wrong! :shower::wiggle::wiggle::wiggle:
    (That's the way how you argue BTW)

    Try to add an infinite amount of numbers and you have to get as result =1
    Can you?
    Infinity has not only width it has also depth. Speaking of inside / outside is rubbish.
    When hunting for Quarks you are hunting the universe. When you are hunting for galaxies you are hunting the universe as well.

    In 'every thing' there is the entire universe. Others say G_D is in every-thing.
    To annihilate one thing means to annihilate the universe.
    Or different: 'Things must have consciousness that they can appear as consciousness = become aware.'
    Or simply things are interweaved with each others.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. 3sidedcube

    3sidedcube MDL Member

    Oct 1, 2009
    165
    24
    10
    Well in my understanding of the universe ... so to speak the universe is a construct where space is infinite . and the matter in the universe is the plughole for dark matter.
    Time is a construct of man . in nature there is no time only movement or conversion of matter to energy

    but that's just a philosophy
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...