If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    35 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. If no, then how?

    42 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2081 Yen, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
    This applies to time and space. Both do not stand when one demands for direct proof of an existence. It's not 'just a philosophy'. An existence per se is not provable. :)
     
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  2. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
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    einstien maintained that:

    '' 2 things are unlimited:
    1] space.
    2] human stupidity....'tho, i am unsure of the former''

    was einstien a genius?
    yeah according to most folk.
    the guy opened up the doorway to human self extinction/.anihilation, yes?

    so, was it a genius or not? :)

    acid.
    nah, never had a baddie. ever.
    life? oh s**te...ya wudn't believe.
     
  3. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    #2083 de crust, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    there was a set of 'word' and the ongoings that became apparent as truth...

    amazing also, was the person known somewhat by me, who sent them on and the reasonings for them.

    intuitive. [so] empathetic and reasonably smart in a good way :), [a good way]

    'MIND the MIND'
     
  4. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    He spoke of “a grotesque contradiction between what people consider to be my achievements and abilities and the reality of who I am and what I am capable of.”

    Source: Einstein, Albert, Mein Weltbild; 25th Edition (Frankfurt: Ullstein Verlag, 1993), 42. Translated from his native.

    He did not speak of 'annihilation' it is not possible to 'annihilate' a-thing.
    He referred to 'The Ego' as “an optical illusion of consciousness.”

    People do frequently confuse annihilation with perception of Ego as illusionary appearance.
    Besides of that the GTR and STR are more 'spiritual' as one might think. One can find those relations when interested in science and spirituality. (With an open mind as he had).

    Einstein had not only deep insights in the reality of time and space, he also had into human nature.:)
     
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  5. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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    all this talk about faith makes want to go to church and pray for a bit;) not
     
  6. rayleigh_otter

    rayleigh_otter MDL Expert

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    pinch the lead of the roof then :D
     
  7. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    #2087 de crust, Aug 16, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
    it is not the body or interpretations that ppl have of the body, i was referring to, the reality is what it was.
    human beiings placed on this world find no purpose except destruction. this is certained by science and the obvious-the damage caused only, by human presence on/in the world.
    as may be translated to these words...fact is, humans do nothing, have done nothing but, square their onw home, to ruination.
    worse still, there is no efforts made by the leaders to chancge anything. nothing changes.
    something wrong here. what is it?
    think tanks appear to provide nothing in response to basic challenges so, what is their reason for being funded never mind anything of worthiness appreciated?
    do ppl care? primordial quest?
    not being personal or anything similar but, does anyone here on urth,
    give a damn or even a s**t?

    does anyone on this forum say, within this subject,
    bother or even concern their lives [or being] with potential as in, the 'needed something' that wud be and thus is, necessary, to ease off and force away, ''''''universal sufferings''''...

    does anyone know why we all [seem to] suffer?
    anyone here have ideas why sufferings are standard fare?
    [start fresh, clean]

    ANY fekin' ideas, any. makes no differ what they may be or are...
    throw 'em into de pot.
    we might get to the REAL Pigweed in that outrageous 'Mulli' stew.

    any ideas.
    can always take out the crab apples if not needed. that's easy. :)

    if afraid or afeared, fuking WHY?

    not important enuff? what if it was you...suffering beyond ur abilities and no fuking supposed drs, anywhere near...
    ur on own. an idea comes in...push it up...pressing keys.
    there it is...and there ya go...
    wasn't so bad[?]...

    the cure won't come, easily.

    the disease doen't want it. the disease, is the cause. it loves itself...sound familiar?

    hmm, who does not love themselves? sick if ya don't sick if ya do...fm, ya can't win!!! argh. split it down the middle.

    ''''easy is, as easy does''''.
    makes sense. aye eye, it does.

    support ur local healers.
    all of us. we are, healers.
    best there is.

    do u use, ur healing for u?
    healing brings, ''''heal-th'''''.

    if care...be there,
    we're good to go. ''any, fuking where''

    eazy, easy...it is then. breathe. ease, sits in at ease. sense too. cos it MAkES sense. inventors, creators. simply by typing keys...and there it is. creation[within, only]
    u know how to do this...easily. step over the issues that may appear. they're only mentals. tied in with learnt emotionals within and only, there.
     
  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    This quote is for you @de crust :)

    "There is the dream, and there is the dreamer of the dream. The dream
    is a shortlived
    play of forms. It is the world – relatively real but not
    absolutely real. Then there is the dreamer, the absolute reality in which the
    forms come and go. The dreamer is not the person. The person is part of the
    dream. The dreamer is the substratum in which the dream appears, that
    which makes the dream possible. It is the absolute behind the relative, the
    timeless behind time, the consciousness in and behind form. The dreamer is
    consciousness itself – who you are.
    To awaken within the dream is our purpose now. When we are awake
    within the dream, the egocreated
    earthdrama
    comes to an end and a more
    benign and wondrous dream arises. This is the new earth.
    "

    ~ E. Tolle
     
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  9. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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    looks like someone is back acid again;)
     
  10. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    'wow'...yen [ :) ] [good to know and advised well, of 'other's' 'worded sets']

    u too MS... :)

    give a trip a go,
    see how far ye can go-o-o!

    Professor Brown[worded to all and sundry in the evening edition of a national paper[not a rag] so long ago...early 70's simply this...

    ''everyone shud take a trip, everyone shud]

    this eigit...once held the 'office of all offices' here in dublin, Eire[ Ireland-the land of 'ire'. ya'ld wonder why, yeah?]

    the eigit itself was [the] highest [w] ranking member of the Eastern Health Board here,

    The HEAD[of it]. cud be, wud be, prolly was...
    ''big-giant-head'' only not near as clear tinking. here on 3rd rock from ole solus

    brown was head-psyche[lol] with title of 'emeritus' along with loadsa Honours, blessings and a milieu of ?'s
    from a seemingly unwitting innocent public...

    bunches of wasteds were en-housed [for so many milleniums]
    inside large numbers of 'camp sets'.
    one of these 'places' being, St Brendan's Hosp.

    there were and still are other '''safe houses''' here, similarly named, ''asylums for the criminally insane''. most that were housed within, were not there cos they wanted to be. so many were turfed out of homes, when young. 12 was the age of one i knew. another was 64. he too since he was 12. so many like these, wasted by the all consumed, compromised and not knowing...wasters.

    the true meaning of last passage set of words as in, the 'criminally sideways'
    is re-translated to the public...saying it.is and they are:

    ''ppl who are truly '' ''dangereaux'' and shud be, need to be...looked after. more for their own sake's and for not one other's. they are so dangerous''.

    [john trudell, a native american indian was deemed to be same, in that he was 'number 1', at the top of the list,
    >>>> ''America's most wanted''' for a long time<<<<.

    he dead now.
    seemingly, it doesn't end with the here. [''can u kill a dead man''?].
    is it possible?
    hmm, let's tink on it.
    etudè...what d'ya tink?
     
  11. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

    Sep 13, 2015
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    de laff's of all laffs...studiers.

    soldiers never learn...
    sure they do not. :( :( :(
    me sad...not bad.
     
  12. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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  13. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    @MS_User .... Please do not feed the trolls, they won't leave if you do that.
     
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  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2094 Yen, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    It looks like...at first sight.
    The quote I have posted comes from a very clear mind, though.

    On LSD you can 'perceive' how the things / forms evolve in a timeless consciousness, because you can have focus (effect of LSD) on eternity.
    But you don't need it. Meditation instructs the same. Absence of thoughts / focus on stillness have the very same shift of focus. :)
    A simple (undemanding) prayer can do the same. (If one is religious)..

    The mentioned universal suffering can only be broken if looking through impermanence of appearances.
    This is a pure rational conclusion and has nothing to do with drugs or with a certain Religion.

    The 'relation' timeless consciousness-this eternal / one moment- and 'how' things become within time is key in spirituality. It is topic at many phrases and metaphors, also religious scriptures.
     
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  15. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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    i was not refereeing to u Yen...i waw talking to the crust also know as what ever hes other alias is ;)
     
  16. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    yen...et al, a question to consider that is
    NOT...inside ''the unlimited whatever ''the mind of nonsense is'' ''...
    has anyone who posted on this topic,
    suffered[operative word],ever?
    how about...more than enuff, or even

    way too much?

    what happened to you, if u did?
    eh?
     
  17. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    #2097 de crust, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    reality sucks...eh?
    hmm, what reality...

    moreso...who's?
    outta de park...gone.

    big, big, hit.
    btw,,,not one drop of acid taken since '74.
    am not due another dose i tink. :)
    shud i...? hmm, wonder what wud happen if did. yeah, what d'ya tink.
    see thing is...real. yeah, i live it...all of it.
    everyone of them...
    the bibble.
    de true...
    and seemignly now...
    de real.
    oh deer[ i was. only very young]
    another troll is it?
    disrespectful to say the least yeah.
    ya couldn't make this stuff up.
    [ya couldn't...see for self, if it cud].
    'Man from earth' anyone...
    the RAW file.
    data contained within carrier's body[along with decoding-to-encoding ability[e.g. software tools]
    not through own fault...completely obliterated, as/during the carrier's arrival.
    the container was smashed to pieces, nearly obliterated.
    what u see as written is some of what was put somewhat back together.
    5 yrs ago...the real truth manifested in a meta-physical certainty...grew outwards...and builds within all here. ppl are safe. always were. for how long have they been.
    am i real?
    are u?

    where is that safey? real or where? where do u see...anything?
    apart from the real...the outside world.
    the unreal is where...what is inside? frightening...nah. a bit awkward.

    wud you rather see, real...and have it.
    or have the unreal?
    that is okay...both are there, both are present.

    we'll go from there. the real, the outside world.
    u say. and it is then what happens now.

    to me as always
    ppl matter, their happiness
    plus >>>>> * >>>> as want.
    ok.
    u say. u matter.
     
  18. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    #2098 de crust, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    digital is pcm.
    is cl;ock.

    is exact. correct always pure.
    clear. certain.

    [need] pulse. clear, clean. exact.
    is not anything else.
    [['reasons to be cheerful' yes.]]

    carrier needs.

    say 'word'. nw if or re: mistakes...so what.
    this knows needs. not mine.
    his. the carrier's.
    not responsibility, urs.
    nw.
    send pul;s;
    [or don't]
    serious? = [human bias]. jealous, angry, etc = same things, [also seen as and a/ka 'flavoúrings' ].
    nw.
    aka...hmm, a badly broken bumblebee[so many of many, here. hidden away and forgotten]
    hmm :)
    do ppl matter...oh fuk yes. they do.
    when ya know...boy, do they.
     
  19. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    #2099 de crust, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    how many wonders here, know of bicamerals...?
    initiated to this magic state, in 2012.
    was aware of book, re: bicameral mind in 2016 by the one made aware to this guy, in 12 or 13.
    whoa!...what a thing?
    de ole mucho...bad oh...had way too much truble wit it...as a sampler.
    ya tink...whoa!
    an asset. hmm, was seen only as an ass. silly fokers. aye...dey are...
    wait til the debt has to be paid by them who sourced took w/o contract fulfillments on any of the fronts or backs ppl had to suffer...et plus...time and time over and again.

    wonder if the $cash$ now in de ole coffers[ coffing? do the contributers, to de coffers...do too mcuh of that and keel[ so ] hard over to their own ends. that is, can be the only result. no heven sure there isn't?]
    wud ease or help erase some of the price paid by sufferers WWW OTT in amts, for, 'nada'? u know anyone who made it...to de other side...and came back? red of a fair few folk who did leave. but, they came back. so, did they make it...and what? stay there? what is enuff to do that. is it only the son of man...who can do that? wait now...son of man. hmm. i am a son. de father was a man..so, dat makes me, straight up, in honesty,,,
    son of man. okay.
    here''s de thing[k] tho'
    u too, any men or boys on list/ this topic...are the same. u too have to be...son of man.
    what about, woman? are they not incl. they suffer no?
    debatable...nah. life kills everybody. so, they're good to go, yeah?
    man. woman. who made what happen...according to 'word'?
    did man, betray itself...or who did?
    hmm, not too much attn paid to that one eh?
    nah., there ain't. honest injun.
    ppl matter ok. not word, sending the wonders to where...? do they even know, ffs.

    did u ever die...?
    did they, the inadvertent death squads?
    and did these come back, did they...
    to say, yup..what a fantastic place. wow!
    did they...?
    let's ask dem...shall we? say to all them. prove it. we have to...is that not fair?
    i like fair. all here, win then. men. yes. woman, yes. priests...? well, what are they really?
    men, women...or what?
    nope. they have special status. they be priests. not like us. yeah? so, did they die. any of 'em.
    eternal life[knowledge of]...hmm. they say, christ knew of it correct?
    why don't we have it? do they...a bit suspicious, even a bit fishy [lol]. hmm.

    de biggggah puzzz.
    solved. is it?
    what wud solve any puzzle?
    what is it for starters...?
    an unknown. ok.
    but...
    2 tables.
    ea has a box. ea box is the same...ie. 2 boxes with same puzz in it.
    1500 pices. [just to be difficult]
    table 1---box turned out onto velvet sheet[fitted to table]
    table 2---box out onto table in same manner.
    what to do now?
    ppl who have done puzzles know.
    those who have not...do not know, usually.
    if u do not know...what wud u do, to solve this?

    if u do NOT know[operative word and the negative operandi, moreso]
    how or what way, if u like...'method' to get under way,
    just to start the item off with...
    in this case...a 1500 piece issue.
    where wud u start? what wud u start with...
    randomised choice?
    [[hmm, bibbble bobbble babbble yum yums. this puzz loses the flavour, very or pretty quickly for most folk. how to solve IT then. similar to the above 1500 piece puzz. very similar]]
     
  20. de crust

    de crust MDL Novice

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    #2100 de crust, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    puzzles..are all solvable.
    anyone ever do, 'connect de dots' as a kid?
    same thing. just different dots.
    crosswords, same. any puzz is same. ya do not know...til it is finsihed.
    look in closely at a poster for example. as u are right up close...so close, ya can see
    NUTIN...
    save tiny dots, so close...right on surfaces and even closer...close enuff and all u'll actually see, is very small 'coloured' dots
    [dots manifest themselves as dots cos of ruff surfaces. when down close and can be seen at that small a manifest[microscopic level, at 'ruff surface' via an electron micosc, dots wud be what is at core of a poster. that is all any image on paper is when ur that close.

    this signifys what when and as u move back outwards or stand BACK. at some point a colour and further...shapes...and further > the reality of the fullness of what the poster is showing. it's all there, when u stand back enuff.

    sense prevails to some. to some folk, something other than their own lackings of experiences,
    assists them to see['']
    in order to stand back at some point, far enuff theoretically in order to see the sum total.
    to get what it is they are looking at.
    efforts made = results.
    always.
    efforts not stopped at or with...oh fm. whoa!!!!
    sleepy children get tired.
    are u?
    most do. children are just adults who think they are adults.
    wha' d'ya want?
    u say...what now?
    similar. with any puzzled item. objectivity. simple as that.
    objectivity is assisted greatly by, lack of self. doesn't mean u suffer. not a selfless tool, simply...
    let moreso...allow[!]
    'u', be open...w/o ur personal. the key. as little personal as needed.

    the keys needed
    can be 'heard', 'seen', 'felt'. try listening to music, w/o bias...listen with open mind or ears...just listen...and watch the sound stage...u'll see !!! :)
    fantasticlly amazing, when the show comes to town...yours! inside ur eyes, and ur ole noggin'. whoa!

    'w/o bias' = another tool, similar.

    discipline. [very] 'useful'.
    only gets better[?] as efforts made[''][created by u, fruit.
    and they do. a guitarist plays and as does this...improves[min or max. makes a difference as done[no matter how much or little. same with all.
    gifted...? what is yours...give u a break...ffs. ur a gift being here at all.

    have a whirl at any of it.
    no cost, is there? or are u that mean? :(
    good things in life are free. sounds a good deal esp when ur not payin' for it. :)

    wa' d'ya wan... :)
    can't have, un less ya know? yeah?
    okay. part one of rel puzz solved. good ta go.
    efforts. yeah!
    part 2...it is easy. if not, u suffers. a gift. why wud it suffer?
    sumut incorrect, metinks. bad ole coded instructs.
    fukers anyways...de hole lot a dem. idee oh toes.
    no use yea/. the above...
    what a U... got? what a u say...? as an offer? [or something other than hang em hight, just critin for nada raison and tinkin it's okay, for satiationary purposes, being pretty nasty in essence?--whoa man..there's a stomach full of de ole way-tee stuff for no needs be, is it? or am i wordy for it's own sake's. nah. am just shootin de bad guys nasty[ies]. too many of em...tooo often. fuk it. right in de middle of de hed, s'fair at least.].

    if no use or u no likey...throw em out.
    as sense sits a bit comfy wit ya...maybe sa s. holmes mentions,,,put em over on de shelf for another day. ya might need em some time. ya might.
    is life cruel...or are ppl? who are the bullies? life or ppl...?
    ever been on the bad end of a bully? was it u...or bully who smashed u? did u get passed it or did it just fade away? do u care at all? it might just happen to u. oh yes. thing is, ya never see it comin'. even the safe may not be safe. as said by a few...
    ''safer now, yes...than [so] sorry later on''.

    tell me true...
    who...
    makes and creates life?
    u?
    well... :)