When having a look at the history of science, for instance, you can see how the understanding of the cosmos has changed. The 'misinterpretation' relied on: 'States' are separated phenomenons (have an absolute character). 'States' are determined. (They are defined, regardless of an observer). In other words 'we' thought that some states cannot change / are not interchangeable at all...and we thought state changes happen independently of an observer, are determined observed or not. (Einstein / Bohr debate. Einstein was shocked and said: "God does not play dice.") Today we know time is relative, energy and matter are equal, space can be bent or twisted, the universe's expansion is accelerating, black holes do exist and they can evaporate, there can be particle and wave, location and impulse cannot be measured precisely at the same time. Besides of that 'we' misinterpreted the proportions. Energy and matter. Who ever thought that a mass defect of only 0.6 gram created the energy of the Hiroshima bomb? Who ever thought that expansion of the universe is accelerating? (And by that requires another 'thing' for explanation, dark energy.) And who ever thought that the theory of multiverses gets acceptance? You can 'understand' and study things and their interactions out there (science). But you also can focus inside (spirituality). Astrophysics: 'The truth' unveils by correcting old 'isolated' models and by getting theories together. More and more objects and relations are predicted by theories until they really are 'discovered'. Theories have to get proof. Mathematics is common means. Science questions and by that requires an answer. And there are adherents of certain theories. But there is also proof. And there is controversy. Would it be false that the universe's expansion is accelerating (a fundamental error at measuring would be discovered, redshift) and would it be false that it is isotropic then dark energy becomes questionable, too. Spirituality: Focus on the source. 'Things' are perceived as they are. There are no questions and by that there is no answer required. (The dualism of question and answer does not exist in this state, has not become.) The absolute truth includes and transcends both. It is an exercise on awareness, it's focus on being itself, no thoughts about. It is a turn-away from objects. It's like a still water surface. You only can have a look at the ground when there is absolute no reflection due to waves (thoughts). The wording 'god' is not suitable to talk about GOD. (I prefer 'being' or 'absolute consciousness'). Everybody of us has an idea of [GOD] due to life experiences and perhaps the bible or other religious scriptures. And it happens at once to make an object out of it. GOD needs no acceptance or defense. In other words: What you personally accept or defend can never be GOD. It's always your personal idea of it what you accept or defend.
That doesn't just apply to God, it applies to your reality as well. Subjective observers in an unknown reality.
Things can NOT be perceived as they are, Yen. Unless you are God. Sub specie aeternitatis is not accessible to Humans, as limited as we are...
I guess she is not omniscient because I can go out and Rape Pillage or murder anyone I please any time I want, That makes me free.
That makes you evil, which has f all to do with freedom. Freedom tied to misery of others is slavery to the need for domination and exploitation. You're a slave to your worst side!
Ya know that God will gitcha for that kinda stuff. (you will die at some point in your history, and you may be called out on your actions while you were here)
I got news for ya -- The only thing that's gonna get me when I die is the worms and maggots as they turn me into compost
"Things can NOT be perceived as they are, Yen. Unless you are God" That is right Gorski. To speak of perception AND things (as they are) alone is flawed. I know. (It presumes dualism) I did avoid to mention that even because the idea I = God and you = God would lead to further discussions. (Sick tyrants, dictators, emperors, nazis etc...ego=God) (The bible also speaks about Genesis 1:27 And God made man in his image, in the image of God he made him: male and female he made them.") "Sub specie aeternitatis is not accessible to Humans, as limited as we are.." Spirituality knows 'perception' where the dualism of the individual and God (as absolute consciousness) has not become yet. (And I don't mean death by that). I also avoided it because another term 'no mind' is frequently used and leads to lots of controversies. God as absolute universal 'principle' is accessible ('every now') because it includes and transcends both (both= both parts of any dualism) 'every now'. It's 'the eternal divine within any-thing'...which can be experienced as indifferent to 'you', as One. Would it be not, God is something that is separated and determined. And you (humans) and any-thing else would be separated objects as well. (Raja) Yoga, Meditation and prayer would be useless 'dreaming'. True love, spiritual affinity and God-experience would not exist. Humans are able to focus beyond, but it is no process of thought. The 'means' have a long history and have changed as well. Many are coloured by Religions, but there are also scientific approaches. It's the same like asking somebody:" Hey, tell me what is being, how can I get that?" One 'knows' it by being itself. Any thought about is useless. The term 'Satori' maybe is more understandable....it's about 'moments' where it happens in 'common' life-situations. Within those dualisms it is inaccessible, yes. I just posted that not to teach or convince somebody. I posted that from own experiences due to meditations. Everybody has to figure that on their own--if interested--...and I respect every opinion about...
Yen, whatever distinctions you are making here, the minute you say "true xyz" you invoke a judging subject over another judging subject who is "inferior"... This always ends in disaster... In purely theoretical sense it is not three bad but politically, religiously, socially, economically... Yayks!
You mean 'true' love'? The distinction is the wording only. Distinction is even that what 'true' would let 'vanish'. One gets aware of the eternal divine (or whatever wording you prefer) within any-thing, anybody, which is One. This affinity makes one 'truly' love another one by recognizing oneself in the other one. It makes us recognizing as bothers and sisters. And there is compassion. It is no emotion it is a human state of being. But you are right. It's 'my' wording what I consider as true. I mean 'true' love= based on consubstantiality
Yes. Distinction of 'true love' a principle that does not know any distinction from 'other' love which is based on distinction.
"ego=God" I believe (And I've been raised with monotheism) that God does not speak to me. I believe that God, as we know of it (Monotheiastic folk) is completely and entirely about love. "Love your enemies as you love yourself." "Try to apply compassion and understanding with regard to all humans, because we are so different, and are at different points in our spiritual evolution." "Respect the belief systems of all other humans, because they very well may have a piece of the key. And that piece of the key may unlock our own spiritual growth (i.e. free us to perceive beyond our own limitations.) I suspect that the key is love. That's just my take on things. What if Man and women were created as beings of pure energy? And that energy was manifested into physical existence (i.e. The world as we know it.) so that we may be taught and ultimately tested? The tests only matter to us, because they are part of our own spiritual growth. A truly omnicient being would know of the pain and of the joy that could (and ultimately would) be experienced by us frail humans, if we were in our current physical form. Would S/He interfere? Would a father interfere in the lessons being taught to his/her child? Wouldn't that make the lessons all but meaningless (i.e. you know the outcome before the lesson is completed) Ancient belief systems speak of the Yin and the Yang. And how a balance is always struck. It's interesting to notice that science also works like that. Opposites attract. Like charges repel. Please forgive me if my thoughts are a little bit scattered at this moment. I am under enormous emotional duress. And as I'm sure we all know, emotions and logical reasoning are polar opposites. I don't know what love is. I can't quantify it. All I know is that without it, we'd fall apart and devolve into something very ugly. But the world is still a beautiful place. And you are all beautiful to me. The only reason that this is so is because I have not forgotten about love. And it is still alive in my heart. FWIW...
That in itself is a flaw. Believing that humans are superior to everything. Anthropocentrism will always cause problems. It's a very hard thing for humans to let go of that idea. It manifests itself in different ways, thru religion, race, class etc and ends in trouble. When humans are ready to accept that they are a part of the whole then there might be some enlightenment. All of those things are ego and until you can let go then you will never be better.
It has nothing to do with being 'superior'. It has something to do with dualisms and their principle. Including and transcendence. According to Einstein energy and matter are the same. This means there is 'something' from which emerges both. The 'problem' is now to give it the right notion. I prefer consciousness, but scientists do not dare to go this way (yet). It is not quantifiable, because there where it shines is no dualism which could allow a quantification. But I know that you know it. 'Everybody' who is able to recognize oneself in the other one knows it. (I have no better way to express it.). Falling apart is to go down the dualisms.
I think we would like to think we are superior to everything on the blue and white ball in space until a something so small we can't even see it (virus) comes along and puts us back in our place. We have no power here....fame or no money can help you....(but you'll get better care even if you do die)
I agree in part with what you say. We must remember that many of us are given different spiritual belief systems, and each of these systems has a different set of rules. We are then told that our way is the "right way", and every other belief system is flawed. I believe that the best approach is humility and understanding. Often-times, we are arguing the same point or for the same belief. There's the ego. Humility will allow us to realize that it's not about being correct, but finding a symbiotic relationship with others, and ultimately with nature. Understanding will allow us to see past our own pre-conceived notions as to how things should be. Maybe there's a better way. We'll never know unless we view all of the data and discuss it without condemnation (i.e. the open heart / open mind) It may not be a path that we would follow, but if our existences are about the sum of the parts being the whole, then we must fully understand each of the parts. That means the each of the parts must be examined with an open mind (i.e we must rid ourselves of any preconceived notions.) Yes, it's agreed that on their own and in the hands of those with an agenda, much pain and suffering can be and has been caused by misapplication of spiritual doctrine. We must strive to put this aside and view it from an elevated perspective. With the understanding that it's the easist thing said and the most difficult thing done. @Joe C: An Apex Predator thinks it's superior until it meets a force that can destroy it. We are blessed in that we exist dichotomously. i.e We can understand and feel our own grief that stems from defeat. (Do animals that are Apex Predators feel this? We don't know. ) By existing dichotomously, I mean we are drawn to our own primal, animalistic side, and at the same time we are being pulled toward a lofty, spiritual side. This can be construed as a blessing. Those who are well versed in Eastern Spirituality will explain that being "blessed" is by no means being free from pain. The blessing is received when you make it through the time of suffering. (i.e pure joy and / or bliss) "We have no power here" Ahh but we do! We have love. The ultimate power. As Yen said, love transcends dualism. Take a look at what Kahlil Gibran says about love https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/148579/on-love He sums it up beautifully.
There are a lot of 'spiritual masters' who are abusing Spirituality. They do it by telling you that their way is superior. You notice it whilst they try to add or remove something from that what you are and by that they address ego only. "I am the master, the same way as you are the master. I can only address what is already in you. I do not create or teach something that is new. No Religion, no set of rules." This way or similar wrote somebody in his book. I appreciate much. I posted 'going down the dualisms'... We have Spirituality (whatever own form it is) and daily life situations. (At best there is no difference (anymore)). There is a principle that requires unawareness: 'Going down the dualisms'. And there is a principle that requires awareness: 'Not going down the dualisms'. It's an exercise whenever there is interaction. But the first thing to know is: There is a choice. Many people do not know there is a choice, unawareness prevails. You can notice that at any verbal fight of people. 'True love' seems to be forgotten. Brothers and Sisters are no more. Spiritually means for me personally to remind whenever I can be aware.