If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    34 vote(s)
    46.6%
  2. If no, then how?

    39 vote(s)
    53.4%
  1. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    now that`s a really nice summing-up of the BOT-experience, yen;)
     
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  2. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
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    >You are 'dwelling' in this sense of being.

    ;) .......... and you ' think ' you understand ........ and are dwelling on it .

    We owe a lot to generations of people meditating ......... discovering themselves / their mind .......... and comming to the right conclusion ......... without modern science ........... but for me a large part of that is ........... EGO .............. wearing uniforms ........... not working ........... begging .

    Gandi got it right = Get up in the morning , go to the rice field ......... work ....... and lead a ' normal ' life ....... Instead of being egoistic playing games trying to understand the ununderstandable .

    I am . I am alone . I will die . I dont understand . And in the mean time i stand in a que to the slaughterhouse playing my game trying to take my mind off that fact

    The only choice i have is what games i play and how i play them = Play your game well .
     
  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    #2303 gorski, Sep 30, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
    What I meant is that you, @Yen, are stuck with your 'dual structure' and can't get past that and all the other issues pass you by...

    It's infinitely more complex than your "pure feeling" when you roll your eyes back and see all white...
     
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  4. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2304 Yen, Oct 1, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
    The conceptual mind / thoughts has / have a huge momentum..I have to admit that I am most of the time 'absent' as most of the humans. Then I call my 'anchor' pulling me back to the present moment.

    No, there is no-thing to understand :D, but as you know it comes with inner peace and serenity.

    If you think it is that way 'more complex' then it is until it isn't anymore. Or it remains being complex 'forever'. Up to your 'path of life'. :)

    I can share how I would compare it (put in words).
    I guess everyone knows this situation:

    You are being asked for something special you actually know for sure. But at this certain moment you cannot recall. You try it harder but it's gone. You get excited not recalling it "wait I know it...ehmm, I almost get it.....no..wait..now..no..damn...almost got it....later maybe..." You almost get a bit upset about not being able to remind. Or you have lost a key and cannot remember where.....it's almost like the harder you try to recall, the more it gets away.....

    So you do something completely different then. You start to forget that you have something forgotten......and then after some time you are perceiving a special 'pattern' (maybe you look at the one who had asked you that particular question) which triggers immediately the 'former' situation.

    But when you are very aware you 'know' that there were no thoughts (but stillness) on that and from 'this' it is like a 'flash' and you immediately know where the key is or you can recall anything again what you could not answer before.
    This background of 'flash' is what I mean. It is no "pure feeling"... it is no-thing.

    At meditation you replace "you do something completely different then." with observation of either breath or body awareness.
    This is the anchor I spoke about above. When you always 'start' from there your thoughts are most powerful and creative. The power of now is literally incredible.


    But well.....it's everybody's own path...:)
     
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  5. BAU

    BAU MDL Expert

    Feb 10, 2009
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    "stillness" is atrophy. the only "good" thing coming out of that is commonly known as "brain farts"
    everybody misinterprets "be like water" and other (usually buddhist-ish) tropes like that
    when you're sitting on your arse, "meditating" - well, you're just sitting on your arse, doing nothing
    don't ever let your mind be idle. just dream when you can't put it to good use
    i am a god. AMA
     
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  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Stillness has been chosen as a term that is difficult to objectify. That's all.
    If you do it anyway you can assign whatever you want.
    In fact that stillness is background for every-thing. It is the place from where you 'know' (again) where your key had been. (To refer to the example above).
    No sound without stillness, no thought without space where it emerges.

    Meditation is not predominantly that old stuff sitting on the floor. It also doesn't matter how long you can do that.
    What counts is how often you get aware that you have lost awareness on the present.
     
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  7. BAU

    BAU MDL Expert

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    whatever you want to call it

    all the bad in the world stems from "meditation" - religion, politics, kumbaya, fanatic veganism, antivaxxing, boko haram - even if originally starting from a good place, it inevitably collapses to gratification of "self" at the expense of others

    all the good in the world stems from "non-still" minds - too busy solving problems, creating, working, genuinely helping

    having your mind drift alone without purpose and without control, let alone actively pursuing not thinking at all, ends up getting you further apart from humanity, slowly being overcome by disconnection and apathy - or worse - getting into a dark place where you hold all the answers and everybody else is beneath you, while a urge grows to bring the others to your "enlightenment"
     
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  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Maybe one correction: from "bad mediation" - which puts particular (corporate or their intensely party-political or particular religious, class etc. interests) as general interest. In other words, the "memememe principle" is the source of all evil in the world, as Hegel warns!

    So, indeed, we need a much better "concrete meditation" which will recognise the general interest as such and act on it.
     
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  9. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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  10. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Forget about me. :) "Enlightenment" 'belongs' to nobody.

    There was obviously an impulse within you to reply to this thread.
    You have to figure it out if it was a resistance (that keeps old patterns to be persistent) or...
    a natural curiosity 'where' there was a split of a second of a taste of presence.

    Totally up to you. Regardless of 'me'.
    I am aware that such posts of mine can have a touch of 'teaching'...I am trying to 'express'..
    Teaching is actually not my intent. :) I am doing that with Chemistry. Just came home from that enjoying the weekend. :)
     
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