If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    34 vote(s)
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  2. If no, then how?

    39 vote(s)
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  1. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    hmph, i dunno, yen...
    when you say the will of god, i think inshallah..
    and fatalism..
    a fatalist cannot have a free will; he is a fatalist...
    but a man can feel free of the idea of any god.
    and feel free.. whether this thought-up god
    is omniscient or not then becomes irrelevant, once
    you choose not to believe in him. hope to see
    what gorski has to say on the matter..
     
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  2. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #22 timesurfer, Apr 10, 2013
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    What if God is also the cosmic code or infrastructure of reality and in messing with that code can reality be "lessened" from it's natural infinite creativity possibilities?

    Is the Galaxy, Sun and Planet actually alive, living beings that within their domain can alter the Original cosmic code and thus anyone/thing in it's immediate environment could, if earthlings are unconscious to the cosmic code, cause those earthlings to be deceived/controlled because they are asleep/have amnesia of God and Infinite possibilities or the cosmic code or infrastructure?

    Are we being marketed back to us our soul or what we already know?

    Is false religion/gov't/science the media we're marketed and worship in hoping to gain back our soul and infinite creativity or limitless?

    Hmm :yoda:...lol
     
  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    The term "the will of god" has a bad reputation. I am careful using it. But what actually has happened when one has chosen not to believe in god? The one has created an idea of god and the result is an object with all those own ideas 'in it' which makes the one not to believe. It's actually simple.
    Or somebody uses his idea of god to justify own actions which harm others.

    If one cannot overcome the mind which always tries to objectify 'god', means to give 'him' a own meaning, then it's better to use the 'freedom' not to believe in 'him'.
    Then it doesn't matter if 'he' is omniscient or not.
    It is hard to talk about something that cannot have a name, a meaning.
    It is written: "You shall not make for yourself any graven image, or any likeness of what is in heaven above..."

    This is not meant to be an order, it is simply not possible. People are creating an image of god and then chose if 'it' exists or not. They assign attributes and meanings to their ideas. But 'god' is as it is. I am that I am and that is my name forever.

    That what is now without a own idea. But our minds want to objectify it and we are asking. What is god? I need an idea of it to think about!
    But this idea no matter what it will be is not god (anymore). It is that what is NOW. Can we stop here? Obviously not. lol.
    That what happens now is freewill, it belongs to nobody.

    The will of god is not a will that belongs to an object, since god cannot be objectified. It is that what happens presently.
    To be 'conform' with it one has to comply with the present moment as it is.
    Then the one can live in peace and harmony with that what is. (=god).
    When taking ownership of the will of god = freewill, then suffer happens.
    But simply because the one denies the present moment and cannot let it be as it is. The one enforces the own will which is based on a identity apart from god (apart from the presence, the present moment.)
    Since most humans are identified with an idea apart from 'god' humans are not free. They have a own will which is not conform to freewill, to that what is now. Humans are restricted to their own will which is associated with their own idea of what they are.
    Free can only be somebody who complies with the present moment, when the one takes it as it is. When the one is being without an idea.
    That is meant to be not apart from god. That is meant to let the will of god act through 'him'.

    When somebody asks me: Yen. Do you believe in god? I struggle with an answer! Why?
    Because I do not want that somebody thinks I have an idea of god in which I believe.
    But I also I cannot say I do not believe in god.

    Because god is that what is now. God is being without an idea of what 'he' might be. And 'this' being is not different to 'your self'.

    It actually doesn't matter what one believes. We are here to figure who we are. And there is an indicator: True Happiness.

    It probably sounds odd. But one doesn't have to tell about 'god'. Communication is beyond words. One feels the presence of 'god' in 'others' once the one has chosen to come home.
    The essence of the last sentence is beyond the words I have chosen. Communication happens anyway. :)
    Nobody needs to study for that. :D:)

    I have passed the middle of my lifespan in the time ( I guess so...). All I write about are my own experiences, my countless talks with different individuals. It just has brought happiness in my life. Happiness I hope I can share with my posts. :)
     
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  4. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #24 timesurfer, Apr 11, 2013
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    And so to overcome bypassing true cosmic "Order" we must resonate with life in it's dark and light states for "thinking" doesn't free us from creating false images or lower energies that do not deliver us to "central" frequencies or the cosmic energies that animate life from the eternal/present time

    False worship always has to do with praying to something outside one's self, whereas with "resonance" it is impossible to worship outside anything such as Idols, Ideals, false religions, govt's cause resonance itself would acknowledge "The fruit is within the seed" or with resonation can all things in time/space be known, which I believe is our inheritance of being god because god is not outside ourselves, hence the marketing of god to life on earth over the course of the historical cycle which is the "cycle of limits and exploitation of Earth or planetary being"

    Seems also that people like to worship current contemporary partial/temporary science, but also seems that they will be needing an science that is as sacred as the reality it is investigating but that would acknowledge reality having a mental aspect to it which bothers scientists cause they are too busy worshiping their outside apparatuses to view the physical never it's spiritual infrastructural which can only be known through the foretold to come science of resonance. If God is everywhere at once, then true science would have to be in resonance with God to truly know/resonate with everything cause God is the source of all life or everything..

    Worshiping machines :roflmao:....lol What is this the Matrix :eek: We ourselves are the path beyond technology, hence true awareness. understandin and science is done from inside not outside ;)

    It is this thinking that real Buddhists who can calm their thoughts while acknowledging the physical senses/instincts would understand that thinking itself is a logic that "comes from the thinker to something outside to think about" whereas in resonance it is impossible to think about anything in a duality state of mind cause true resonance governs everything cause every thing is ultimately in resonance with everything ;)

    Eventually the subjective observer and the object observed become one ;) in an non-duality based system!

    All these problems in spiritual beliefs while living in partial/temporary happiness always come short in comprehending god, eternity and other similar topics are easily solved in making accessibility to higher understandings via a common denominator called:

    Non-difference which is resonance based...:shisha:...lol

    If your dealing with God, your dealing with a non-different state of being ;)

    True oneness :D
     
  5. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    An omniscient/omnipotent being has the capacity to be at every point in time and space. An omnipotent being can time-travel because it can do anything.;)

    In a universe with an omniscient/omnipotent being, everything that happens must happen because the omniscient/omnipotent being wishes it. If the human is given free will by this omniscient/omnipotent being, this is what the omnipotent being wants. But the information with which the human basis its decisions on is at the discretion of the omnipotent/omniscient being, and is therefore not free. No matter how you twist and turn it, just the fact that a omnipotent/omniscient being exists makes it ultimately the cause of everything, which negates the notion of free will.:(

    If you need free will in your theory, you need to replace God, with the original entity Aristotle envisioned. The unmoved mover. It may be omniscient/omnipotent, but it doesn't do anything but move just once and then not again. But it still doesn't make humans totally free. :biggrin:
     
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  6. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    This boils down to how to define free will. If you define it in a way to be compatible with determinism, then omniscience doesn't conflict with it. (See also: Laplace's Demon).:)
     
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  7. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    Yen sir, please post some direct answer not the way you've answered.:D The problem is in OMNISCIENCE or "perfect foreknowledge". Omniscience precludes free will because it states unequivocally that the individual in question WILL do certain things at certain times, and nothing can change that.

    The best way to explain this is what is generally referred to as the "Prophet's Paradox". Basically, that if a prophet alters the outcome of his prophecy, then obviously it wasn't a true prophecy.

    To take this to the God discussion, can God change the outcome? If God can change the outcome, then God isn't omniscient. If God can't change the outcome, then God isn't omnipotent. basically, this means that the two main attributes attributed to God, omniscience and omnipotence, are actually mutually exclusive.

    This takes us right back to the "Free Will" discussion. Can Man change what God has foreseen? If he can, then God isn't omniscient. IF he can't, then how can you say he has "free will"?
     
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  8. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #28 timesurfer, Apr 11, 2013
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    I think the question might be a tad hard to answer directly so it becomes instinct for atheist and believers to define the two variables the question implies

    Variable 1: God = Assumed that all creative defines just that, all creative, able to do, change or dissolve anything, including any moment and/or whatever

    Variable 2: Man = Assumed to be separate from God thus at the effect of an all encompassing God hence total victim...lol

    Now my instincts tell me that to some degree the topic is a loaded question and might ultimately be trying to disprove god but I'll play along.

    Now what is happening here is that different levels of understanding are re-configuring the variables and thus causing difficulty in a common discusion because of the differences in beliefs of the two variables God and Man

    I for one might lean towards god being in man as much as god might be in anything cause god is suppose to be in all things throughout time which brings more confusion cause time is also an debatable thing to most people or time doesn't exist, etc...

    I personally believe time is best described as eternity which describes the entirety of things getting created, changed and ultimately dissolved, but in that lies the problem cause in a truly infinite universe you can can have many things happening all at the same time so to be able to foresee a certain moment because every moment with god in it has totally infinite possibilities is left to only god to have the ability to do given god it outside or separate from man

    So when we all have different descriptions for these two variables this discussion can get quite lost and incomprehesible, which by the way some term in describing god - All comprehending and yet totally incomprehensible?

    So with everyone here having predisposition regarding the topic I'm not sure how your question can truly be answered or how we can come to an agreement as to "Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient"

    Why the topic free will? Do both god and man have free will or one or the other?

    If presuming god has/is everything including free will or not then from the place of god could man, if man is always at the effect of god thus victim of god, have any control over his life hence from the reference point of god, exactly how free is man. Where did the term free will even come from?

    I'll end in saying that the historical cycle on earth alone has been quite broad or creative yet in comparison to god's infinite creativity history has been extremely limited so to me the real question is, is free will the sliding scale that exists between limits and limitless and if man has god in him is man limiting himself during history and why? To learn about limited situations that at their root are totally unlimited :eek:...lol

    Right now it's a topic of variables so it's hard for participants to sync in with each other based on undefined principles of understanding of god and man

    :shisha:
     
  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    OK. I am sorry, I try. :)

    Your thoughts have a major issue.
    Omniscience and linear absolute time can they coexist?

    I mean it would take endless time to become omniscient, right?

    So anything that is identified with an object in the time cannot be omniscient (for instance an individual). There is always something missing.
    So we are talking about something that is free of time.
    No relation can be made to it.

    “To take this to the God discussion, can God change the outcome?”

    It is a wrong question, made by a dual mind. Who should change what without time?
    The outcome is god and god is the outcome.

    “Can Man change what God has foreseen?”

    Can one change the present moment?
    Anything what ‘you’ ever are doing, it is always the present moment as it is. This sentence is actually wrong (dual) in the aspect of unity since you are that present. That what you really are cannot change itself.

    To change something needs time, but the present is free of time.

    To get more insight we need to watch our mind. :idea:
    We constantly objectify god (most as an individual) and we constantly put that idea into time.

    The present moment is timeless. And I find ‘the presence’ is a far better name for god.
    God is no person who has attributes.
    But we can say god is omniscient because the present moment has anything included already.
    We can say god is omnipotent because the present moment is unchangeable and the only 'thing' that exists.

    We can say free will is god’s will, because it is as it is. It belongs to nobody. Freewill has no intent, it is altruistic
     
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  10. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #30 gorski, Apr 11, 2013
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    As a pure thought-experiment one can set up various sophistry-ridden traps, like:

    "If God is omnipotent, can s/he make such a large stone even s/he can't lift it?" :D

    More importantly, the creation myths around the world are full of serious thoughtless inconsistencies or worse...

    For instance, why would a perfect being - living its past/present/future (materia/energeia - all at once), simply "being ('as is')" - ever "need" or "want" to create anything? Wanting is a sign of incompleteness! What kind of perfection is that? :D

    And so on...

    On the other hand, we should REALLY understand the difference between different ideologies:

    1) our future as being pre-destined (if s/he has pre-ordained it all, as omnipotent) and

    2) open-ness of future, i.e. it being our own to write... in which case not only is that Being ignorant (of all the exigencies) but also impotent (to influence our Future/History), whereby there is no Cosmic Viagra that can help Him/Her, regardless of what Yen comes up with in his little lab... :D

    Of course, God forbid :D we ask the awkward questions of the "Who speaks for God?" kind, since s/he doesn't ever reveal his/her presence directly... I.e. who are Gods of Earth or rather "on Earth" (literally)?!? :rolleyes: Because this seems to be a blasphemy - that is to say, "I know the will of God" is a serious offence punishable by burning on a stake... :D I think... :D
     
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  11. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #31 timesurfer, Apr 11, 2013
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    Yen is correct here, it is impossible to define the variable god with the worlds current mis-perceptions of cosmic time and on top of that when time is considered linear like science programs the world that it is, then everyone's completely lost and these "God vs. Science/logic" discussions just go round in circles based on there always being different descriptions of the variables in question

    So I guess, that if free will is without intent then perhaps that is how god creates in an unconditional way, so man being lost in free will he might always bring about things of condition hence intent might be an limitation unto itself?

    But really free will is not without intent, especially if god is all knowing, powerful and is the sole author of original intention that all life is created from which includes but is not limited to life on earth where "free will" has generated separate ego's all having separate intentions thus in competition with each other and life on earth hence the chaos of linear time vs. the synchronicity of eternal time of which current free will would prefer chaos cause there would be no free will if everyone/everything we're in synchronicity which is I think what God really is - The supreme synchronisty coordinator

    And with things in synchronicity is there really any separate wills? No, "back or up in frequency" god has one will and man or earth, suns, galaxies fall from that original intent and one will, but to a few it is known that when we have free will it is indeed god being separate from himself in man on earth atleast

    So how is god truly omniscient or all knowing and yet allow free will in mens lives? Well if god is love and love is allowing then even though some intentions might cause harm to life it is still allowed cause of the broadness of god/creation supreme will and infinite love (infinite ability to allow)

    I think it's being left out with true being including manifestation and to say "being" is only being unmanifest is "thinking" that god is separate from creation which is a common notion to most cause in our free will we seem disconnected to the other side/hereafter/unmanifest

    I prefer the idea that within the circle of god you would have both the unmanifest/manifest in true "being"

    I think this common perspective is to be expected when only a few can bridge or see the connection between life/death and only dead guys could describe death thus only in death/unmanifest can the other half of "being" or gods creation be known...lol An limitation definitely but that is the "era" we're living in, one of limitations both in thought and manifestation!

    Which goes back to my earlier statements that it is possible to clear out the amnesia or space in between the living/manifest and the dead/unmanifest but it rarely happens and those who have such experiences are usually called crazy or...lol...evil to know what only god (Just unmanifest) can know and to me that's pure limitation and control cause if god in his "being" is both the cycles of the unmanifest/manifest and god is in man then man should know both worlds or the completeness of the real "being" not demi/false gods/being who are mostly in an manifest space and usually ruling their systems with limits and partial-ness in not allowing synchronicity between the un-manifest and manifest parts of gods complete "being"

    On topic, I believe true eternal time/god bridges or is the space between the manifest/un-manifest and so there is a will there also but to me when those two opposite yet complimentary aspects to life, the manifest/un-manifest, are in conflict with each other then there is also a division of will and "chaos" emerges and not just the way people interact on earth but in our perceptions of how creation/cosmos works in an chaos destructive based universe model :sith:

    Also interesting that Christians are really into the whole trinity (3) thing: God, son, holy ghost

    Are they unconsciously actually referencing: Unmanifest, manifest, everything in between :eek:
     
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    You mean to say "I don't know"...??? :D So, why don't you just say so? :p :D
     
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  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    When can one have an influence on the future? And if seemingly taken now what is left? Nothing more than thoughts / ideologies about....only 2? Huh? :D
    What at the future is real other than present thoughts about?
     
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  14. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #34 timesurfer, Apr 12, 2013
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    Didn't want to invalidate you where your currently at consciously :dunno: cause no one is better than another :rolleyes: even if their trying to analyze or use compare and contrast tactics to understand God :eek: cause to know or understand God you must resonate not think ;) for thinking is ultimately of an duality state of mind whereas resonance is being non-different from what you wish to know :om:

    Use The Force Luke...

    Simplistically brilliant :worthy: since all time is now...
     
  15. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    Time surfer wrote;
    The thing is, that I reckon that you can't isolate concepts like these and consider them on their own, independent of causality, thermodynamics, the various arrows of time, the dimensionality of the universe, the nature of the brain, and so on. Again, it reduces the problem to something so meaningless that it's just an exercise in mental masturbation.:D

    What we really want to know is whether free will exists in this universe, and if it does, if it is compatible with an observable future (should that be a meaningful concept too, which I doubt). And frankly neither of them stand up particularly well on their own, let alone together.:confused:
     
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  16. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #36 timesurfer, Apr 12, 2013
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    Since you are coming from an "We" not "I" perspective which is more than the individual self can usually speak from, I say this:

    One universe = one will
    Infinitely creativity = All encompassing simplicities/complexities in that one universe with one will

    In consideration that we have only one future would require the "Theater" of which we express ourselves being of an common denominator based place to express one's self, so in the universe being infinite the observable universe would manifest in whatever number of parallel experiences that is necessary to draw conclusions that in themselves are connected by a similar intent or state of mind that validates them being more similar than "different"

    :worthy: Nondifference, hence mind over matter as the synchronistic factor that unifies existence rather than deliberates an non-unified state or theory based on fictional theories of past based origins and/or partial relative theoroies that leaves out variables that facilitate recognition of legitimate common themes in our investigation of the cosmos which in itself should be an real attempt to acquire an genuine comprehensive analysis of the cosmos and all it's "pre/sub-levels" being a perfect reflection of the complete universal spectrum of all that is, was and could be?

    Could there be one synchronistic factor in not only examining whole systems but also these whole systems parts which should be perfect reflections of the whole - "Again the fruit is in the seed", "what is above is below", The father is perfect and like my father I am also perfect" :)

    Such an premise would be inclined to relay that it is beneficial to pay attention to what is at the root of all of life than what is manifest from the root of all of life or infinite possibilities :D

    :shisha:
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Masterfully done, Sir!!! :D :D :D Amen! :rolleyes: :D :D
     
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  18. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #38 timesurfer, Apr 12, 2013
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    Hi Sid, if we can't isolate concepts like god, time for observation, or analyzing, then why do you believe free will can be isolated?

    That is why I was demonstrating in those last posts how free will might have come about or how it works? But you have to have a platform for discussion and with atheist and believers posting at the same time unless you can agree on the variables god/time/free will then no one ever syncs in with each other for an answer that all can come to agreement to which by the way is wonderful when it happens cause even though most suffer from amnesia of universal knowledge and wisdom I bet there is one thing we could agree on and thus have one less thing to be at odds about or nothing :ranting:...lol

    So let me give it one more try then I :suicide:

    Breaking down the topic word by word...

    If God is Omniscient then Human is not free

    God - Probably at the center of the cosmos where not only is there all sight of what is, was and could be but where God controls or directs life from, hence all good, bad and in between happens (Lets agree that people being bad to each other is bad stuff) because of God's central position of being
    Human - An probably only physical creature at the whim of nature, other humans and God (Lets at least tolerate that man might also have qualities like God as described above)
    Free will - The ability to do as one chooses without opposition of any kind

    Note: I've referenced your points in your post in green and red, so that we stay close on topic using as few words as possible to variable descriptions to a minimum (Note that human who might or not have free is in orange)

    Question #1

    Ok, if God (An seemingly outside force) is all seeing throughout time or infinity/eternity, which is pretty amazing just saying :eek:...lol , can that influence or not whether man is free of God's comprehensive sight?

    Answer:

    No, if sight isn't just watching but an component of how creation works (like visualization) and what God see's come to be?
    Yes, if God can change his view or sight or which God want's to see, hence anything can change at any point in time (e.g. A miracle)

    Question #2

    Ok, if all seeing, as a non-static variable (Not just watching, like all creation happened in the past...lol)(Big bang theory creates this perspective phenomina), is now a component let's add will to the equation

    Answer:

    God + All seeing/Visualization + Will * Forever = What god see's and wills to be always is even if god feels like changing an moment that is seeming to be created from a past, hence is not creating from a past to a future. God is creating right now and can create, change or dissolve anything at any time!

    Hence God has all sight (Not a past sight) of what is to be and can change or dissolve anything at any time, thus man who is always at the effect of God has no true will but not cause he isn't creative as God but cause as God creates at the same moment man also creates simultaneously and ideally harmonically God and man are synchronized

    But I think the story of man on earth is that the physical has been "separated" from God and thus it seems as if man has free will even though god is Omniscient but given that god's sight and will are always the common denominators in everything, logically it is impossible to to ultimately have any true free will of one's own although I'm pretty sure the Ego of life would disagree! Thus if there is only one will/all seeing aspect to life how did the ego emerse and take over thinking it could create a separate universe separate from God

    New variable: Ego = Devil :evil2:...lol

    Ultimately the topic question If God is Omniscient then Human is not free still will create an dilemma and that is simply this:

    Is God as much in man with his sight/will as anything god is in the cosmos and the answer is yes so in relation to man, gods will and all seeing aspect (Omniscience) governs all will so freedom is not a question just God's intention which is infinite...

    True creativity is not static thus there is a constant in the universe and it's called God and to some it's also a cosmic law or rule that everything always adhers to even though it might seem we're deviant of God, not really :eek:

    :shisha:
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Add before I submit, lol: sid_16 doesn't like long posts, I just have seen TS'es long reply....I push submit anyway... :eek:
    TS'es essence is basically the same even though IMHO he objectifies god still a little too much...


    :):hug2:

    I'd say it's rather stark. Humankind's modern challenge is to discover such 'issues' of the mind.
    Almost everyone thinks to take influence on the future is a real event. For example when I spill some milk presently I have to clean it 'later'.

    But when I clean it I always do it presently and not 'in the future'. So if one can take influence on the future or not are ideas...to have to clean it later remains an idea until I do it. If I don't do it, it don't become real.

    One could now say: But the event to have spilled milk has changed what I WILL do next = the future.
    Sure, but that is also just an idea. The present itself remains unchanged, since there is no time. Or using your expression: All time is now.
    One needs to be constantly aware to watch the mind creating linear progressive time as an idea.
    We need time (time of day, clock time) to coordinate events, that is no question. But we need also the ability to let it go (psychological time), it distracts us from the present, actually from life itself.
    (Modern tech world...--> makes us sick, jumping from date to date, thinking of date over date, whilst the present remains unrecognized)... does that bring happiness? Temporarily perhaps. (there is it again..time...)

    The mechanism how one creates time is the biggest challenge and when resolved, the meaning of 'god' resolves also.
    We can say the omnipotence of god resides in the present.
    So are we now puppets of god? Dumb?
    No! In the present is everything included already. To welcome the present and to be present means actually to live, to be awake. To think about the future or the past means to leave the present, the place where life happens.
    Whilst thinking about both, life = the present passes away.
    One's self is this present. And 'god' is it also.

    When does one feel real and alive and truly happy? When one is constantly present and aware of the pressent.
    There are objects / 'events' in the world which makes us return to that present.
    To some it is art, music, a blossom, a sunset, a landscape, the birth of the own son / daughter...you know your own....
    Have you ever asked why that happens that way? Because you live there where one can at all, now! Enthusiastic, En theos = in god = in the present.
    No sorrow of the future, no thought of the past disturbs that moment. You take it as it is. You are! The wonder of life is now. That is all to know = omniscience.

    But wait: The mind wants to disagree. Stop! How can one be that careless not to pay attention to the future? The mind fears for its right to exist. But what does it do? It creates room for time room for an idea that one can do something 'later'. It makes us believe one can achieve something in the future. A golden future, a dark future? Chose one. Does that idea really satisfy? Is it permanently, can you count on it?
    I mean when can one achieve something other than now? When can one have success other than now? :confused:

    This is no indoctrination. This post is useless or useful. It finally questions the mind. Actually to 'it' it can only be BS, lol.
    OMG! Are you serious?...:biggrin:

    @gorski: No I have smoked / taken nothing mind-altering, lol. :icecream:
    Oh one question. Does this fit into established western Philosophy? Or is it just noobish...I have no claim for my post to be a proper philosophy... :dunno:

    I just have recognized that this post illustrates my current signature....sorry for the long post, lol. But it just reflects what I have 'learned' form life....many from my travels and from other cultures...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
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    #40 timesurfer, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    lol...:suicide: If your sitting in that recycled predisposition of me then you missed my posts using the two terms (At least I use color)

    Resonance and non-difference depicting an approach to being one with god not trying to create God or guess at what is God but rather eliminating all predisposition including the "usual" unconscious predispositions in the goal being to resonate with what is ultimately non-different hence being one with god who sits in the eye of the hurricane and is the non-different closest relative to all :shisha:

    Ultimately, then there is only ever refining methods at resonating and the dissolving of all the different opinions as to what non-difference is :roflmao:...lol

    So yea we're of the same essence if we apply non-difference to examining you and I ;)

    So as much as I like Sid and this topic it ultimately dissolves because the different variables in question are indeed non-different in quality and in origins of existence, hence in trying to use average "logic" to accumulate answers as to what God is we experience eternal feedback thinking that we can observe God/Creation from a "being separate point of view". God can only be experience by being one with or in resonance with God through a non-different state of mind :D

    So trying to examine any topic/question about God without true understandings will always give inaccurate or partial results and when dealing with God, partial is not a descriptive factor but an limiting one..

    Code:
    The subjective observer and the object observed are one
    
    S.O. = Subjective observer
    O.O. = Object observed
    One = Single entity
    
    S.O. + O.O. = One
    If one looks closely this explains if free will exists or how it could seem to come about if one we're to mess with the formula

    Code:
    One + S.O. = O.O.
    
    or 
    
    One + O.O. = S.O.
    Take your pick :roflmao:...lol

    Most will miss it :(

    This is why free will on earth is known as an experiment cause that's all that can be done with free will!

    p.s. Next we'll examine the formula

    Code:
    "The velocity of time (eternity not linear time) is instantaneously infinite" or how to remember stuff "before" or "after" our "time"
    All hell brakes loose right about now cause that's "impossible" as it is suppose to be "impossible" to "remember" God, hence can we timesurf and be omniscient like god is? Yea but not with molested "linear time" and then if we can surf time can we re-engineer memories as well and be like Gods or God?

    Think limitless or rather when the "thought" of linear time dissolves what's left? Eternity?

    We shall soon find out :eek: