Bold: IMO you are right it is not true, it cannot be true. Predetermined means has a finite domain, means 'somebody' must be above 'god' who restricts him to use this predetermined path. I had a good Physicist at my study. He used to say, the present's domain is infinite. Due to relation to an own finite viewpoint, it becomes finite. It becomes an object = 'your' life. I myself had made peace with 'god' accepting it as term for this infinite domain. I am glad that you are recognizing this. One can ’exist’ with both, lol. And to me they are not incompatible. I have seriously to ask: Is a potential barrier of science and spirituality real? I mean any potential difference here is only a matter of self-identification and not real. I like to debate with friends which are scientists, too. We are discussing new experiments which are published by Universities, also that quantum eraser. And I meet friends talking about spiritual stuff, and doing 'mind' practice. Meditation and so on. It is of course reasonable to apply science there where scientific objects have to be related. I post mostly here from my lab, waiting for processes to be finished. Anyway I observe my mind. And when I notice it is distracted I 'bring' it back to the present. From this present any idea becomes form. One knows the advice which is given frequently when one cannot remember a special thing? The advice is: Don't think of it, just forget about it. And suddenly the object is present again. Science and spirituality don't have to be incompatible, they can be complementary. Science applies to objects, spirituality to the 'room' where the objects appear and their room itself. You are presenting your idea of Religion. Figure who wants the applause and evaluate if there is a real need for it. And no a bong would be rather distortionary. A very awake mind is needed.
Religion only materialises in the form of its followers. Without supporters, there would be no religion. When its supporters run away from each and every challenge by claiming "it's a faith issue", when they have no problem presenting their beliefs as fact, I as a non-believing human take objection and express it. There are definitely more people who could do so in a more polite manner than myself, I know. My questions surely had my usual sarcastic tone in them. Nonetheless, these were thoughts I had about religion, expressed in what I think was understandable English, yet they were left unanswered. A: "God made everything." B: "How do you get to that conclusion?" A: "I believe it." B: "There are people who believe in other gods which are different from your god. How do you explain that your god is authoritative and that they explain the same thing about their god. How does this fit together and aren't you dismissing other people's beliefs?" A: "I don't dismiss. Everyone believes his own. Noone knows who's right." What kind of an argument is that and who's trolling who? By actually believing in only one God, one is already actively making a statement about the beliefs of other fellow humans and that is that theirs is worth less. That's a poisonous thing to do to others. That's because to be truly tolerant to other's beliefs, you'd have to make sacrifices in your own. The 5-part documentary by Dawkins spoke my heart and I seriously recommend watching it. Religion only contradicts itself, is preaching false morals and makes good people do bad things. I remind about the part where the director of a catholic school said that without the fear of Hell, people would actively kill and rape (even children). I was really scared by that person that moment and seriously had a thought in the back of my head what that guy would keep locked away in his basement.
"O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim For preacher and monk the honored name! For, quarreling, each to his view they cling. Such folk see only one side of a thing. " http://home.earthlink.net/~insure/Elephant_and_blind_men.html
Who are you to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in? Why does it bother you so much? You get butt hurt every time someone believes in a God because it doesn't suit you? Tough fkin s**t, Nazi
I have no problem with believing. Do it for yourself, don't go around claiming stuff you can't prove.
Erm I think you are the one going around claiming stuff you can't prove, I said I believe what I believe, and other people believe what they believe, I never claimed anything, you are trolling around trying to disprove God, which you can not do.
The Great Mystery/creator is my personal descriptor and is the name afforded by many native american tribes where each individual has a personal relationship with what could be described as one's higher nature .. When I was younger I had the privilege as a wilderness guide (in my free time) for the Sierra club and others to take people who were from urban homes into the wilderness (completely free of electro magnetic energy, overhead flights etc.) What was often evident there was a transformative process which occurred when the trip was long enough (2-3 weeks) where the impediments to having a relationship with their true nature were quite naturally surrendered .. My observations although unscientific by the measure of some concluded there is a part of each of us that I describe as ones higher nature where the best of who we are needs but the environment to emerge naturally .. It is my wish that every person can create this opportunity for their Self .. It will at the very least change your life at least that is what I have observed many times over Edit: for those who can not see how this ties into the thread .. Here you go .. The idea of free will can hardly be recognized if ones true nature is not given a place or the opportunity to experience it .. This is but my observation from my path, my point of view, and my experience .. others may have a different way of seeing it .. I welcome their thoughts
@TCM: Why does it bother you, or even concern you what others believe in? For someone who doesn't want to be told what to believe in, you seem hell-bent on trying to insult people into forsaking their belief systems. What do you hope to accomplish here? And why is it so difficult for you to tolerate the beliefs of others? I beg to differ. Not only do you have a problem believing, you have a problem with the beliefs of others. I may not believe in Buddhism, but I respect others who do believe. I'm not making any assumptions here; Go back and look at the posts. "Analyze the data" (to coin a scientific phrase) You're a bigot, plain and simple. Good luck with that.
I didn't say god made everything and the burden of proof for god is on you. I just asked some questions which you declared as trolling because they make implications which you don't like.
What the hell are you people arguing about, you have gone so waaay offtrack that I think i can see redroad's house out in the woods.This is the topic: If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.
I don't care what people believe. I care what people claim and can't prove. And when asking them some questions about their beliefs which highlight a conflict to the beliefs of others and they get all rallied up, calling me a troll and Nazi, suddenly _I'm_ the one bothered? I have no problem with _others_ believing. I think I've made my stance more than clear that I don't believe so of course I have a problem believing, _myself_. If I believed some omnipotent entity made everything and is the only one, I automatically dismiss the beliefs of anyone who believes differently. It's inherent in the fact. You can't wordplay that away with some form of "tolerance". Yeah, I'm sorry for calling others Nazis. Oh wait...
If someone asks you "Have you ever stopped beating your wife?" it should be allowed for someone to step in and point out the false premise.
I was asking you some questions and one page later you're on a personal vendetta. Funny how that works. If we met right now, would you wish to beat me, too?
You're not serious, are you? That line should read "I was getting obnoxious with some members in a spiritual thread and one of them told me off." Funny how that works. Like I said. Go back and look at the posts.
I did and all I can infer is that you declare challenge as being obnoxious which exactly reinforces the fact that religion places belief above rational thought and facts - even when that belief doesn't stand the simplest test of logic. But supposedly that's OK, because it's a faith issue so we can go on and indoctrinate children with false claims and drive on the age-old hatred among ourselves.