Changing one of your moves, and your opponent changing their moves will end up with a different outcome each move changed, for example I have arranged to meet with a friend tomorrow, then I change my move by telling him I want to meet today instead, so he changes his move to meet today instead of tomorrow, we meet up, we have a good day, we go home, tomorrow a car crashes into the exact place we met up at, only because we changed our moves, we were saved, so the exact same thing does not happen
To reply directly on topic I want to post an answer that had been mentioned by a friend. I took my freedom to post it here, lol.: Forwarded @sid_16 thread starter. "I thought you are admin of a PC related forum, lol, anyway. God gave humans the free will to err an infinite time in infinite ways. Only one who has these powers can wear the attributes of omnipotence and omniscience. By acknowledging these attributes one stops by oneself and the attributes are recognized as those who don't belong to god alone. This is what I'd say is meant with : Coming home." Nobody replied, just smiled.
I wouldn't say God is coincidence either, of course we have free will, put your finger on your nose, did you choose to do that or was it part of your lifes plan? It was your choice because why would anyone want you to touch your nose right now ?
The key words are "get" and "start" .. It is my experience the well spring that is within and that has always been there when I have had the awareness to brush away/letting of the impediments that keep it from my awareness/view it is there I am reunited with my true nature where there is no getting or starting needed only being Self ..
Exactly, the big bang theory is massively flawed from the start, things do not come from nothing, and explosions do not create life, they take it
Matter and energeia were already there, they are always given and were not created, so it was not from nothing, as far as BBT is concerned. The concept of "creation ex nihilo" was introduced by Christianity and the Biblical myth of world creation from "God's word", which was an interpretation to begin with. The original was written in the learned language of the time, the Ancient Greek and the word is logos, which has many meanings, from an order of ships in the harbour, to "word", the relations between things ("inner logic of things"), to "cosmos" and the narrower, Philosophical one etc. etc. Hegel's Philosophy, for instance, has a very clear place for "nothing" and its dialectical relation to "being", from which relationship ("becoming"/verden) all is derived - but cares, eh? Who cares that these are eminently Philosophical terms, with a lot of history and loaded with meaning, debated ad nauseam for aeons and... oh, well.... why not just keep blabbering superficial, totally uninformed nonsense instead... Much more fun... This debate is complex and not without its fair share of (even fundamental) disagreements, so to presume one has it all under control in this sort of debate is close to ridiculous, of the Hollywood order of things, that kind of "ridiculous" level... I have already written on a number of problems that lie behind this debate, which are basically political, psychological and Philosophical. How do we see Human Nature is behind it. The nature of freedom as such, as our fundamental facet, not just "free will". Methodically speaking, we are in between God(s) and animals. God doesn't need to be creative, for reasons Sid and I (at least) already gave and animals do not have the capacity to be "creative", they do not have the kind of imagination (Slavic "mašta") we have, even trans-generational and nature-changing kind, whereby we are creating our own environment (let's leave aside the "How wise is that?" debate, for the time being). Seriously, this is as uniformed as one gets and some quacks in this thread, poisoning the atmosphere with hatred and prejudice are just beyond belief... of any religion...
For instance... http://www.philoonline.org/library/morriston_5_1.htm ...not so much "specualtion" but Philosophy... But never mind...
This is how learned men debate this stuff, with due care: http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/cosmology/alfven.html
Just one of the questioning voices, of which Science is proud... maybe a little later on and not "right now", as it happens all too frequently but still...
@gorski as a learned man you must know that not much will come of your general assertions of others unless you are willing to address each as individuals and debate their individual points/views accordingly if you so desire .. otherwise you are only stirring the pot .. Right now as I see it we are having stew
I can certainly understand that especially since you have a family I hope this doesn't inhibit you from posting elsewhere because I have certainly valued your contributions and your sense of humor
Those who oppress and destroy cultures and their belief systems by any means are nazi's... So nazi is an metaphor for people who suck ...lol If you have an better metaphor I'll use it God is more and less than nothing...lol Everywhere all at once... The eye of the hurricane with the hurricane being the physical! Holding life in animation. I guess one could say God is an matrix that creates all of life God in Mayan is known as Hunab Ku, one giver of movement and measure. The Maya also call God the 260 day calendar called the T'zolkin, made up of 13 numbers and 20 icons The 13 are for time (movement) and the 20 are for space (measure) with a difference of 7 We have 13 articulations in our body, with our spine being the 7th and 20 fingers and toes so natural time is actually within our own bodies What the BBT is all about is fiction cause it postulates we come from a undefinable past towards an equally undefinable future. Time and creation don't work that way and it's cause of false theories that we have a warped sense of how creation works hence warped perceptions Having amnesia of how creation works is pandemic or global and like when you loose your wallet and find it, it's the same with remembering God! You forget, you remember! So God and real now centered time have an mental quality to it and with that connection one can read and influence energy and know without asking cause energy is throughout all life and telepathic in nature like the way animals communicate and know when a disaster is coming! Shamans are just good at ritual to remember and things look different when you remember! This type of recall is an rare occurrence in history but when it does happen it makes a person have a different perspective. This is the real reality! Time is inside you not outside. The time your referring to is just an measure of space not true time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True time is now centered and timeless
I totally understand his wisdom behind not changing what he has decided. The question was, can he do it? Yes or no? Then, can god punish man for using the freedom which he granted him. Then it becomes a case of allowing some one to commit a crime and then punishing him for it. God could as well have stropped him from making the wrong decision. It is only a contradiction because God has foreseen the event. So, the statement should be "Can human change what he will do, if God has foreseen the event?". The answer is no, because that would contradict God having foreseen the outcome of the event. There are certainly instances where what a man can or will do is dependent on certain conditions being met. We use the word "if" to indicate a condition is necessary in order for a specific outcome to occur, ie, I can break the glass window , if I throw a stone at that window. Or I will buy a computer if I have enough money to do so and God can only have a foreknowledge of an event if that event will actually occur. Human can only change what s/he might do. Not what s/he might have done. Because what s/he might do is future tense. What he might have done is past tense. Man cannot change the past. He can only change the future. That is as long as the future is not predetermined by God's "omniscience" of future events. Here it is- It's a Monty Hall universe, after all and here- Foreknowledge and Free Will
I'm sorry to say that my point was atheism has existed as long as theism. Atheism is, always has been and always will be simply a way for people to say they don't agree with theism, until they provide some solid evidence to support their argument.
The options may exist. However, it is the selection mechanism that is pinned to picking a particular option - the one that God knows. Unless one argues that free will is causeless... and the majority of free will supporter here won't go that far.