If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Absolutely nothing, we are all discussing views and possibilities. Proof is not needed.

Its pointless to name call just because others dont align to your viewpoint. Please show a little more respect and dignity TS.

This thread has made some very interesting reading for me. Its occupied me to and from work the whole of this past week. Some very informative and interesting posts have been made. Its hard to know where to begin answering so many points. It seems that with every point a new question arises. I will say this though, i can feel my mind / view being tested.

I still dont buy into religion, for me its flawed. While for some it may provide comfort and perhaps a means by which to live one's life guided by a set of rules as laid down in the respective religous texts. For me it seems hipocratic and contradictory. Spirituality on the other hand i am more open to consider. In my opinion the consideration that to be at one with nature, your surroundings and the universe in general i dont find so hard to comprehend. If that would be deemed as being spiritual then i have absolutely no issue with understanding that and i could certainly see the benfit living one's life that way.

I am an open minded person, so by my very nature i am willing to consider the possibilities of life anbd the universe.

I still do not accept the thought of an omniscient God. For me its just not logical and yes i know that may be seen as looking at things from a partial mind / scientific viewpoint. To me the only reason the that a spiritualist or religous follower can consider that God is omniscient is faith. Faith seems to be the basis for so much. Personally i cannot just take somebodys word for it. ( no disrespect intended) As ive said im open to spirituality but science for me ticks the boxes, having said that even science poses as many questions as it does answers and there is also contradiction.

For example. Science is unable to prove or disprove the existence of God. Yet...... In 1964 Peter Higgs theorised the existence of the "God Particle" or The Higgs Boson as it is now known. The particle that essentially binds evrything together according to the standard model. I find it odd that such a pivotal subject of science would be named after something that science is unable to quantify. Interetsing though, that for scientists to continue working on theories a great deal of faith is often required.

Consider this........

Ancient Greeks, The Egyptians, The Mayan to name a few all looked to the skies. Were they worshiping "Gods" per se or were they looking to the skies for another reason. Were they worshiping something "Godlike". Something with intelligence beyond our realm of understanding. Seemingly all powerfull / all klnowing.......Omniscient !

Perhaps those ancient civillisations had the answers we seek. They certainly knew something thats for sure. I mean how did the Egyptians mange to construct pyramids of such complexity without the benfit of modern machinery, mapping technologies or laser alignment. How .....? Thats not an ccomplishment exclusive to the Egyptians either. Its happened around the world in various different locations.

Modern man has'nt come close to that IMHO. Funny how evolution is so slow. Its a known fact that even the most gifted of genius minds only use 33% of the human brain. Why ? Its like having a locked down BIOS. You know you can overclock it , run it faster and do more with it. If only it were'nt locked down. Imagine the possibilities. Ask yourself this, why has man been configured to only use a third of his super computer ??? Are we unable to cope with that level of awareness, that much ability ? Would we be too concious for our own good ? Would we even become the Omnicsient.......

Perhaps man is seeking the answers that man once knew and has forgotten across the milleniums. Is man ready for the answers ?

In my opinion , definately not. One need only read through this thread to see why. Agression, rudeness and the refusal to accept others views proves man is incapable of dealing with such knowlkedge at this conjuncture.

 

@alexheg
My thoughts on your Wife's question "Do you believe in destiny.......? If so, then how can free will exist ? "

I start with the acceptance that my true nature is a constant (always was and always will be) and to know/recognize it I must have correct perception however my starting point is as a human on a path of Self discovery where which I have many misperceptions of who and what I am due to the lense of time and space from which I often view myself and the world around me .. I accept my myopic condition and my life's path is to correct my perception of my true nature through a series of cause and effect choices (free will) and as these choices reveal/conceal my path is influenced accordingly .. So incorrect perception is something I've come to see as a delaying technique of self preservation for the ego ( preserver of the lie ) .. The problem for the ego however even in it's self declared paradise of time and space it doesn't stand a chance when faced with eternity .. So do I believe in destiny ? No not in a such a cravenly way more the unveiling of that which is and always will be .. I hope you will forgive any short comings in clarity as I stumble when attempting to express my experiences/views
edit: I wanted to thank your wife for the thought provoking question

 

@redroad: Every one of us sees ourselves and our surroundings through a tiny pinhole. Funny thing...our own fears and stubbornness prevents us from widening the opening and seeing more.

The more you see, the more humbling of an experience it is, and the more you realize how wonderous life and the universe is.

But, with each answer, two questions arise. I think we've seen an example of that in this thread.

@Alex: Religion has a different purpose that spirituality. Religion is designed to exercise control over a group of people for some agenda.Spirituality is designed to provoke thought and foster harmony among all beings.

As far as my answer to your wife's question goes: Yes, I believe in destiny, but I choose my own destiny.

As do we all.

And because we have free will, we are free to choose our own destiny.

Peace,
:Miki.

 

I think how you use the word 'religion' there is how you've mostly seen it play out, but I don't think that is a correct definition. Religion is often a conglomerate that includes elements of spirituality, morality, culture, etc. More often than not, when it gets highly organized and grows in scale, it becomes more political. An example in Christian religion is how St. Francis in Italy followed the path of the Christian religion in which he was practicing his spirituality. So much so that it ended up changing Christianity indefinitely. Another example is how Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross in Spain were part of contemporary Christian religious orders and did the same. So religion and spirituality do not have to be separate entities, nor does 'religion' always denote the exercise of power by an elect few over an individual. An example is how Francis created a religious order inside the greater religious entity of the Catholic Church.

Another thing is that the word 'religion' has many equivalents in other languages, and none of them have exactly the same definition. For example, in India you will find 'dharma' or 'sanatan dharma', which means as much as 'religion', 'order', 'righteousness', 'eternal righteousness'. Then in Western history the word 'religion' (or close counterparts in languages other than English) has been used to denote an 'order' as well as the collection of moral precepts, spiritual practices, and other elements. Then there are uses of the word 'religion' or its derivatives that denote other meanings than the one you ascribe to it, for example when people refer to the 'religious impulse' of, say, cave men, and then by that mean the reverence they displayed and the deification of certain natural forces/animals/human attributes.

We can't let the power mongers and political players and church elect steal the language handed down to us by our ancestors

 

@Parapher: Spirituality, as well as ethics has been around long before religion. When religion came to be, it took spiritual and ethical concepts and tennets and manifest them into a form that could be digested and understood by the masses.As it became more organized (and more powerful), it began to push other forms of spirituality out of the picture. Those it could not assimilate (druids, pagans, etc) it attacked and persecuted, either forcing them to flee or murdering them.

(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum)

To this day, religion in the form of the church is still meddling in the affairs of others. Gay Marriage and Abortion being two places where religion is actively trying to enforce its' views and exert control over the masses. Granted there are small sects that have moved away from traditional Catholic christianity and are more "tolerant" of Gays and Lesbians, but Christians are taught that the holy sacrament of Matrimony is for procreation of the species (To bring more souls into the world to be taught and tested by GOD)

I am -NOT- a fan of religion, nor will I ever be. I -AM-, however, a big fan of spirituality.

If you haven't already done so, read "When GOD was a Woman" by Merlin Stone. It's a little dry, but She points out some interesting things about religion.

Best,
:Miki.

 

People oppressed others as well as did not oppress others. Spirituality is individual by definition, yes, but then you will see that in the early tribal manifestations of it the shamans were looked up to to provide answers and healing, etc., so there was still an amount of 'following' and 'directing' going on. So again a degree of religiosity was present there as well. So what I was saying the definition of 'religion' cannot only be what we know today as organized religion. So if we keep implying that that is what 'religion' means we keep twisting the meaning to a percentage-wise or contemporary history meaning only. So what you would need to ask yourself is whether the elect of large religious organizations are, in fact, abusing their power and forcing their thought process using the name of religion, rather than 'religion' or the religious principle in man doing that. I know a very religious lady who would not dream of telling anyone what to do (and she is Catholic). Instead, she may pray for them or otherwise help them in their lives. So who would you say is following the tenets of Christ, the church leader who is a proponent of doctrine influenced by political motives, or the individual who follows the core tenants of that religion? Again, St. Francis I see more as a proponent of the tenets of Christ than I see any one pope. I would agree that in modern times, certain moral codes are more or less generally accepted and practiced, and people don't need 'religion' (moral and other tenets) as much anymore as they might have in other times. Let's also not romanticize the past, because the Germanic tribes had no humanistic approach to people that broke the rules of the tribe, and many ancient cultures had very little space for the 'rehabilitation' of lives. I guess what I'm saying is, the more abstract a discussion becomes, the more precise and selective we have to become in our use of words. Still I don't get the sense you are using the word 'religion' to mean anything else than what a certain church or other particular organization has done historically. That is not what 'religion' means, although I agree that is how it has become known. Sometimes when you say 'discrimination' people think about racism. Well, it could be one way to use the word, but the word does not mean that in essence -- it is just one application of the word. So even more so when you use abstract words to describe historic events -- 'religion' is not a term dedicated to describing an historic event

 

But proof has many times been pointed out that it is needed, just not by the spiritual types! So your incorrect in that the TCM's do need proof cause they have no experience of God nor give a rats ass...

There are winners and losers and the losers always choose being partial rather than complete and in knowing God which is everything one can be or know completeness, so it's wasn't personal as you interpreted through your information, I was just being descriptive ...lol

Winners = Completeness
Losers - Incompleteness

I love interesting stuff too but the spiritual types here describe something much more than interesting, but rather an inner path and healing

As comforting as Knowing God is religion and spirituality are the same, we just have a much more gnarly group that uses religion for unspeakable reasons whereas spirit types are usually more open and nicer people although it is hard to be nice when dealing with TCM/gorki/R29k

They really did not listen one time and always responded in general with "That's stupid"...lol

Christ didn't create any religion in his name and those religions are the one's that brutalized people and still do so it's not how spirit people are defined as much as it is what is possible in any arena of belief

For instance the religion Christianity which God nor Christ created is mostly about worshiping idols and/or using intercessors

But Christ taught to worship God alone and be direct in knowing God

He was also quite the healer and miracle worker, known for talking to God and dealing with evil energies as he healed

So if God is the ultimate journey and what is to be worshiped then both spirituality and religion are the same just religion is quite sick and worships idols most the time and idols do not deliver one to God but pure submitance of your will with gods will. God's will is a real thing not an idea but an energy that can be matched or resonated with and it does bring one into peace, greater understanding and ultimately love and forgiveness

At what point is your mind unable to continually open? Perhaps what your working on this lifetime is at that juncture but how can you see it through science and pcychology? You can't cause analyzing isn't how people find pain or memories in their soul. They find those things by feeling and turning their eye's inward like a mystic. Then after the pain is gone things look different and usually pain is just invalidation of having a spiritual moment when one was a child but they gont invalidated or threatened to not know God without an idol or for lack of better word "moderation" or "supervision" ...lol

Yep all you can think I have is faith, cause the experience of having remembered God or embodied complete information can't be proved by science or those in bogus religions. I AM NOT GUESSING OR COMING OFF SOMEONE'S ELSES EXPERIENCE! God is quite real but like I've said a hundred times, there is an powerful amnesia that all life is strickened with, but I was blessed to have cleared that amnesia for some time when I was small. And I wasn't affected by religion or science so it was a pure unadulterated experience. I remember being able to ask any question and get any answer. I remember having absolute creativity with no limits to thinking or imagining

But I don't blame you cause the historical cycle invalidates and covers up the true experiences and lays over them with bogus people with no experience who worship idols and have no clue but use religion like science or gov't for methods of controlling and deceiving and spiritual slavery

I'm sure it was just named the God whatever to gain attention and yea I have seen this one atom that all life animates itself off of

Strange that creation (or the way the cosmos works) and God might be the same thing! Wow God is both name for all life and it's infrastructure and cosmic mechanics? Whoa ...lol

Maybe it's better for some in this historical amnesia afflicted cycle to neither believe nor not not believe for if God is real then when the time is right one will experience it. I say that cause this amnesia of God is everyone's disease for lack of better word so I just suggest having fun, doing good, giving space, loving and being open but also suggest not using idols to know or measure God. God is inside you whether you try or don't try to remember him but in the linear state of mind it is impossible for creation does not work in linear way!

First of all let's not sandwich the Egyptians and Maya. A scholoar or achioligists might do that but if you wan't real testimony from someone who knows God or is intune with the frquencies of God then the scholar is not your guide

Alex, when we want to learn something we have to resonate with how that something is learned! For instance if you want to learn football you can't learn the gamne by applying tactics you might in playing tennis. The same goes for how must know God. After some time and much redicule MDL spirtual people are finally using the words non-linear when communicating. This was not present before I brought that information into MDL discussions so in a sense MDL discussion have evolved with that world non-linear. I did that!

So if you wan't to learn something new one must adjust himself to what he wishes to know! Not use the same mind or same intellectual tactics to try to understand what might not be able to be understood with the linear or lost mind!

Alex, are you ready to let go the way you learn? Are you ready to be vulnerable or let go! If not then you'll never get what a mystic says cause your mind has not been formatted correctly to receive this new information

Let go luke...

If you want to listen to a 45 record then you have to set it at 45 not 33, get it? Unlearn what you have learned

And if you can't extend yourself then you aren't really curious cause you didn't do the inner work to truly want the answer

And believe it or not living by linear time or the mechanical clock and crooked calendar is not the correct format to interpret what a mystic group like the Maya knew!

Free your mind

Constucting pyramids and being real mystics are two different things and honestly that culture was inflicted with evil and the root of the slave and slave master. That group is at the very beginning of the cycle of history and for lack of better word is the beginning of the fall from spiritual realization

I have seen the entities that ruled those people and it's the same hidden Gods that rule over the planet today hence false gods

Real worship would free it's people not make slaves to build a building for a King!!!!!

The real king is all brothers and sisters sharing the earth together in hernest love for God and eachother

To some, the Maya, evolution is not slow. The story goes that the historical cycle is a fall from spiritual realization. During that fall all is forgotten. False gods and kings rise temporarily as well as false religion, partial science and bogus gov't's

Our true nature is to be free, unlimited and all powerful so when the inner workings of the cosmos are memory and consciousnesses and everyone has amnesia well you get we have now. Bunch of dummies guessing and ruling over each other not just in government but in your nuclear family and cultures

It is temporary though so don't worry and it is quite a comfortable experience to know from within without asking but to the outside observer for others to be self-empowered it might be considered scary but I trust more those with complete information than those with incomplete information given that they share it and not use it for selfish means like sith lord

Don't be scared of being "super concious" or of superhuman ability and yes like God we also become omniscient

It's your destiny in a manner of speaking ...lol...and your origins

One only needs to wait till the cycle of history is over and those answers will be as available as a can of beer in a corner store but the false gods ruling over the planets do not want to market too much back to the masses too soon or their food source of humanities suffereing and confusion would end

Yea some entities feed off of energy and the cycle of history produces quite massive pain and suffering but I'm sure someone will step in and take these false gods down but they'll have to use a complete science and universal religion to do it and to receive that information one must format their disk accordingly to interpret the new data

Aggression is not what can be always put on paper or interpreted through the usual ways. Sometimes what is truly aggressive is hidden like a sith lord acting like he is polite but really he is plotting against the world and it's people via an aggression that greatly out ways the spiritual types not wanting to take the ignorant s@#t that the MDL atheists throw at them

I never blame someone for getting upset at ignorant, uniformed, evil people. I understand those feelings

But just cause most would use new information to do evil Alex, doesn't mean we should close the door to enlightenment or say that's impossible for saying that is limited and again you show what side your truly on when disseminating limits

If you have limits or are limited maybe despite your fear or unwillingness to learn new things, maybe still create a space in your mind and on earth where others can learn new things and be uplifted in information and knowing one's self!

p.s. This reply was way more awesome but the Dark Side of the force "Blue Screened" my a@s but luckily I was intuitively saving my post via notepad...lol

Has anyone had that happen, you write a humongous reply and poof gone...lol

Think of religion to mean to re-unite rather than follow which depicts a sheep state of mind

A group of people resonating with God vs. receiving information from outside

The true Shaman would never create an religion nor ever say something is outside his students

Really guys consider the word harmonically resonate then you'll better see what the Shaman is capable of and how he truly relates or resonates to those who wish spiritual healing

So we are coming from an:

1. Shaman/Genuine God experience (One with God) point of view

or

2. scholar (accumulating outside data) point of view

or

3. philosophical (compare and contrast) point of view

or

4. scientific (analyzing) point of view

or

5. atheist/antagonist (needs god to be not real to justify his cause...lol) point of view

or

6. Agnosticism (doesn't care...lol) point of view

But only the Shaman delivers any real/permanent information as he truly sits in an pre/post historical or non-fallen state of conciousness or state of being

Go Shamans ...lol

 

Organic time (Mayan time) is like a fractal

A fractal is a proportional constant across a scale

So in being omniscient it is not so unfathomable but these fractals or frequencies of time must be resonated with so that as you look at both things large and small you yourself do not change

Kinda like Yen saying that the present does not change God is indeed reflecting an constant or law by all things are relative or non-different or resonant...

The maya also have a way of writing numbers that allows for the simplest of ways to keep track in a fractal manner both huge and small numbers along this "proportional constant across a scale" or cosmic fractal called the Mayan calendar

Code:

As above, so below

The fruit is in the seed

As was in the beginning so shall be in the end

So humans looking at things from a linear perspective which is not a free perspective, hence there is no zooming in or out to know this part of the universe "dead or alive "or travel in time just stuck in space somewhere or better said "lost in space"

So the way humans view is kinda like trying to travel with a 1000 lb weight tied to your leg

The mayan caledar is those frequencies of a fractal nature

The two things that are proportional to each other are the numbers 13 and 20 with 7 being the difference or harmonic middle of that fractal

Also interesting that 13 X 20 (260 earth days) is the same time it takes to make a baby which kinda describes an in utero or unconscious experience which makes one ponder if we're unconscious inside woman or stuck in pre-manifestation

Maybe someone killed Curt Cobain cause he awoke to being in utero or aware of being unconscious

The bible does say that Eve did bite into the apple of the tree of knowledge tempted by a snake

Maybe that snake was an metaphor for a perfect measure of life (Natural/Non-linear time) and to use that comprehensive measure in an evil way is what the Adam/Atom and Eve stories are all about

Cause if creation works a certain way and is infinite then it's no surprise we end up in an fallen world, yet a world that is of god and creation even though it's plagued with unethical behavior, thus god is both author of good and evil thus enters forgiveness of God or save your self!



Two Trees:

Tree of life - How life is organized so all is safe and happy and free (With ethic)

Tree of knowledge/Pandora's box - That anything is possible including "pretending to be outside or separate from life" (like stories of the devil asking God if he can create his own universe besides god) hence original duality and fall from spritual realization or suffering (Without ethic)

Which reminds me of women who do two things:

A. Set one free of there pain, trauma, false memories so that enlightenment can take place (Unselfish)

B. Use pain, trauma, false memories to control individuals/groups (Selfish)

It's interesting to postulate regarding scriptures which one did "first" think of what was possible rather than what is both possible and ethical

But if the mind of god is also the mind of both man and woman then did they conjoin to create this historical cycle?

Inquiring minds want to know?

I mean we are dealing with humans here aren't we? The dolphins are doing it are they ...lol

And doesn't Adam sound a lot like Atom ...lol

On a mechanical level did we indeed fall from the original Atom into what it creates?

But when resonating with the original atom can we be free of being just manifest and to the unmanifest or original atom where all is possible and where the DNA of all life sits inside!?

Are we seriously just an hair away from what free's us? Just a simple frequency away from what creates all of life? Are we that close even in the heat of war?

I mean if organic time is at least instantaneous then maybe we're just to the left or to the right of being in sync and if synchronicity is the basis for creation then it's via synchronicity and resonance that we "return" to our original nature!

I have received accurate interpretation of prophecy and it hints to an instant return to God. Wham, there it is! No duration or waiting! All real prophecies also describe a storm whom I think is an actual person and storm to me means catalyzing and mercy

Combine mercy and catalyzing and I believe you have a great transformative formula

I would not worry anyone cause to me this person who is this storm (19)(The total saturation of all in number into one number)(God) is here and he loves us and would wish no suffering upon anyone in the way his source code was first presented...lol

Most merciful, most gracious



Funny too is how we have characters like R29k/TCM/gorski (static)

and

characters like TS/Yen/MJ (infinite)

One might in huge perspective see that both of us are being refection of what in cosmic science is including both static and infinite variables in regards to a universal whole or components of creation...

 

@ts Sorry to be the one to state the obvious but you are not the one who gets to pick winners and losers .. That is something in this moment I am quite certain of

Alex said "Its pointless to name call just because others don't align to your viewpoint. Please show a little more respect and dignity TS."

ts said " There are winners and losers and the losers always choose being partial rather than complete and in knowing God which is everything one can be or know completeness, so it's wasn't personal as you interpreted through your information, I was just being descriptive ...lol

Winners = Completeness
Losers - Incompleteness "

As I look into my crystal ball I see a response from ts .. oh and it is full of proclamations that place you on the loser's side now that you have questioned his infinite wisdom .. He says you don't have the complete information .. and you are part of those types .. note to self don't forget you have your secret powers the awareness that we are all related and there is only love .. but I thought he had a "hot line" to heaven .. No it turns out it was only



So please don't take the above personal ts but for me there are no more battles or sides there is just a willingness to embrace my true nature and to be with that awareness whenever possible .. Peace

 

@Sid you said "I think neuroscience is beginning to provide evidence that what you are calling consciousness is an illusion."

I would answer only for myself in the same manner as you stated here

"It seems self-evident to you, but it sounds wrong to us(me), so without some more inter-subjective evidence, there’s not really anywhere to go from here. "
The evidence that you think you are presenting is only "self-evident" (in most cases) as you point to what I am presenting ..

These are still my thoughts Sid for clarification I would only add the words in black ..

"If we were able to say that our bodies are instruments capable of measurements/consciousness that Science has not yet been able to define without some outrage from of the scientifically minded in this thread .. A dialogue could emerge between the two groups where thoughts are not so deeply entrenched .. The Scientific community surely has approached discovery in this manner prior to revelation/break through have they not ?"

Your question Sid "Why don't you all know the simple,rational/logical answers to the question? "
when it comes to the answer to this question you are part of "you people" are you not? and most certainly when talking about the existence of GOD , right ? So my point is there is no "you people" as I see it ..

Sid the fact that you may or may not have a vocabulary in which you can communicate with others in this way or even the inclination to do so does not mean others need to refrain .. Why are you seemingly bewildered by the fact that this thread took off in directions you may not have anticipated ? It is sounding like you no longer want to participate because of an unspecified agenda you may have had .. You never enunciated
that agenda if in fact it exists ..

 

To coin a phrase, "The jury is still out on that one", since a 20 year neuro-surgeon experienced a Near Death Experience (Actually, brain death where His brain couldn't possibly function medically)
He came back to tell of it, -and- he described the experience quite vividly.

I posted a link to the actual story a number of posts back.

And yes...As redroad implied. What was your agenda in posting this poll? Did you not realize that spirituality would enter into the fray?

Did you think that you could prove that GOD does not exist by logical, scientific or philosophical constructs?

"Inquiring minds want to know"

 

But cutting edge science (string theory) has been talking about matter itself being kind of an illusion, and possibly a projection of an encoded boundary or horizon (the holographic principle). Leonard Susskind is a great proponent of that idea. Then, we can look at Vedic description of the universe as 'Maya', 'illusion' (literally, 'to measure' -- ie, what is infinite in nature appearing as finite). In that teaching, it is said that the universal principle of 'maya' manifests in man as the individual principle of 'avidya' or 'ignorance' (literally, 'non-knowledge'). The avidya principle in man is the consciousness tied (delusively) to the body, out which the ego (Sanskrit: ahamkara) is born. The path of realization or coming to vidya (knowledge) is the untying of consciousness to the body (transcending ego consciousness) and knowing the true nature of the self and universe. This is why that teaching is so focused on spiritual practices (meditation, etc.) because it is not trying to create some intellectual theory, but rather document methods of expanding one's own consciousness. It's not like the things we've been discussing are some novel idea or that it has only occurred in one or two religious paths, it is something humans have delved into deeply for millenia.

EDIT: And by the way, to say that the mind is going to find out that the mind is an illusion... well, how would the mind know, if it is an illusion in the first place? Would your mind be satisfied (as an illusion) to know it, itself, is an illusion? It would imply a higher mind or consciousness to understand the mind typified as it is currently by neuroscience, to be an illusion

 

Sid have a look here http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/18562-Forum-Rules?p=266547&viewfull=1#post266547

Section 1 - Communication
1.3 Please respect other members as you would want to be respected.

you said "Respect has little or nothing to do with it. Respect is not a right to be demanded. Or it is not a gift to be given. It is something which must always be earned "

Whether or not I have "earned your respect" is of little consequence to me however I will hold you to your word in the context of what you agreed to in the rules .. We must have a difference of interpretation with regards to the rule about respect as we agreed to when each of us joined the forum .. Maybe that is what you meant here when you said

"1st, if we hope to communicate now or in future, when, we have to use commonly agreed upon words. If you start by redefining common words either more narrowly (confines only to mystical experience) or a bit differently from our normal usage, we have to decide whether we want to take the time to learn your way of thinking and avoid reading your statements within the framework of our regular meanings.

2nd, I have no motivation to spend an inordinate amount of time reading a long tract of spiritual experience that may or may not be of interest to me or with which I may or may not have to agree. If you want to motivate us, write a short, succinct, clear summary of your ideas by creating a new thread. Then we can decide whether or not we want to invest the time and effort of reading and understanding your complete position and then decide whether to comment or not. "


you said "The reason I don't ridicule a person's beliefs is because of courtesy..." At least it is my perception you have crossed the line on several posts if we are speaking to your definition of courtesy ..

Even within the context of your post you say "I'm not well versed in magical thinking to carry on this discussion and I'd rather prefer to spend my time discussing reality, not just making up stuffs just to see my words on a screen....... to reciprocate thanks...."
I certainly have extended you the courtesy of hearing your version of reality and although my perception of reality may differ from yours and you being the courteous young man you say you are I know in the future you will extend me the same common courtesy .. Or are you just making up stuff to see your words on a screen to reciprocate thanks ?

 

Sid this is a very dissapointing post indeed. I feel it shows immaturity and arrogance. Not qualities i had preveiously paired to you. Redroad was quite correct to point out the Forum Rules, if you interpret them properly then you will indeed see that respect is a prerequisite of membership here.

I now seriously question your intent. Why did you create this thought provoking thread ? Surely you must have imagined the directions such a discussion would have taken ? I almost have the feeling from your last posts that you have somehow become aloof. Seemingly you have sought to suddenly pour scorn and belittlement on the very minds that you invited to debate ?

Why is that ? Have you nothing credible left to add ?

 

@Sid_16: That's a sad testimonial to the actual agenda behind your original question.

Redroad and Yen did not make anything up. They saw fit to share with you, and everyone else here, the spiritual beliefs that were passed down for generations by their people.

Oh, and about perception? Here's an interesting page that I just found.

http://buddhainthemud.com/2013/02/16/the-dalai-lama-and-quantum-physics/

I would like to know your thoughts on the opening statement on that page...

If we "made this up", it seems that we either have some highly revered copycats, or we have been made privvy to some of the greatest spiritual gifts ever bestowed onto mankind.

Since it's all about perception, you decide.

:Miki

 

Thanks for the link MJ .. The "embarrassment of the primal substance" at the end of the 3rd segment and the ensuing laughter is priceless