If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    34 vote(s)
    46.6%
  2. If no, then how?

    39 vote(s)
    53.4%
  1. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,662
    13,331
    340
    TS. I share your thoughts, no question, hence I wrote the essence is the same.:)

    I referred actually to: "God - Probably at the center of the cosmos....but where God controls or directs life from...". This statement might people make to objectify. It is the dual mind that might....one tries to create an image of what you have written here. The center of the cosmos is a place one might imagine WHERE. AND it assumes that everywhere else, but the center is not god (limitation).

    I know what you 'mean'. It's not about me. I thought about other people reading your expression. :) When I need to 'relate' to god what actually is not possible, then I use the present, it's no place, it is now. But that is just my experience, nevermind.

    A little story came into my mind. When I was a kid in a maths lesson, the teacher told division by zero has no definition, it is not allowed. The 'event' is invalid.
    I could not get why. I asked myself: Who forbids that? Why can one say zero divided by non zero is a valid event and results always to zero, but to divide by zero is not?

    Simple: When one has no particular object, one can share nothing no matter how many (objects) are around. Result: 'Each' object gets nothing, event over.

    When I have something (an object an idea), but there is no object around, then there is no event. Sharing / division does not happen. I cannot relate to / share with 'something' 0 that is no object. (In the former sentence is 'the pain' to cannot, lol).
    So to say to give god a name / meaning is like to divide by zero. Both events have no definition.

    In Physics the absence of something is a condition and hence an object, though. zero in maths is different.

    Edit: So god cannot be omniscient and god cannot be not omniscient. No relation can actually be made.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    4,834
    1,291
    150
    #42 gorski, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
    Yen, it's good that you know it's not "proper" philosophy... ;)

    It's all blah-blah, this talk on the subject (not just yours!)! The Q always was about power and influence and today that includes money and who has his paws on it, for from it stems power and influence... Basta!:icecream:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,103
    270
    #43 timesurfer, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    I said probably cause athiests are reading and didn't want to leave their "prove it" sentiment out of the conversation. There is no probably in my mind!

    I "think" people who objectify everything will indeed objectify god too. For these people, usually atheists/scientists/hypocrite believers, there is no source and thus "things" only exist! And then through "outside apparatuses" they view what to the limits of those machines will give them, and they get only space not time and definitely not timelessness :eek:

    True time is timeless , of no place, but defines all places or all "things" and how they manifest, change and dissolve - All things all at one present time...

    The Mexica call God one giver of time and space, or lord of everywhere. How can that be? Lord of everywhere? <--- Not uncertain just saying question out loud :)

    Well in "thinking" you have to go pretty fast to go from one "point" in space to another "point" in the galaxy. Even if you go at the speed of light (according to scientists using the machine the "clock" as main variable for defining speed...lol) it takes thousands of years to travel from one star to another star so I go back to my favorite theory/truth

    Code:
    The velocity of time is instantaneously infinite <--Using organic now centered time as variable not "clock" time
    So in still "thinking" a scientist would have to go faster than the speed of light to get anywhere before he dies. But god is everywhere at once so can scientist hitch a ride to check out all places? Sure but he'll have to leave his logical mind, "outside apparatuses" and any objectifying at home. He'll have to learn to let go and resonate with what is non-different

    Let go Luke <--- Notice he puts away his "machine" *a pivotal moment for luke*

    %before he destroys the "machine" planet - Death Star% <--- That's no moon *Han Solo* :eek:

    Can't fight fire with fire

    You and I are on topic cause it's variables of discussion need redefining but the interesting dialogue is this:

    If the universe and our planet are truly based on timelessness how did earthlings get stuck with certain thoughts that define their universe a limited one and one which the term timeless is so far from reach. Well it's hard to be at war with ourselves and each other and resonate with each other at the same time. We're a bunch of countries and cultures instead of one galactic, solar and/or planetary culture so my two favorite variables pop up again

    Resonance and Non-difference and in consideration they initiate dissolving false concepts of time and objectifying in general cause how could you objectify something when your resonating with it. It's impossible

    But with meditation we turn away from the machine and ultimately other teachers/avatars/prophets and we kill the buddha so to speak!?

    Even though monks created the clock to remind them to meditate at certain "time" :shisha:...lol

    For the atheists/scientists/hypocrite believers or "creatures of space" everything is outside of them. They have no unified field theory on top of that! But to one who knows from within and with that only hidden methods or teachings exist. No machine. So we're not really defining or sharing maps or guidelines that get a person closer to now cause they can't have it, but to those who don't objectify, we communicate a reality that only those who sit in the eye of the hurricane know the eye of the huricane ;)

    Which is why I strongly believe if we're gonna do something with will, lets resonate our will with gods will as one will... <--- Muslim technique

    How can we communicate to the atheists/scientists/hypocrite believers?

    You can't, because they live in "eternal difference" and "competition not resonance " and because of that they can't experience god cause one has to allow what can't be touched but indeed touches everything from within to be resonated with. Allow!

    "It is said that Shakyamuni's/Buddha last dying words to his disciples were, "Be a lamp unto yourselves." Be your own light, your own authority, your own Buddha. Kill off every image of the Buddha, see who and what you are in this very moment, see that there is no Buddha other than THIS MOMENT."

    My version:

    A. Know no authority outside one's self - Non-difference
    B. All things are impermanent - Resonance out lasts all things cause resonance is how all things are one

    Martix version - There is no spoon

    ---------------------------------

    God is a number, all is number, god is in all

    19 = The total saturation of all number in one number 1.......9

    We are getting close :eek:
     
  4. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,662
    13,331
    340
    Yes. And there had been always a few doing it different, sometimes even an entire culture. ;)

    To objectify god as something that is worth to crave (kill) for...(also called fame, glory and money, or generally fanaticism) will last as long as the degree of suffering forces 'them' to know themselves.

    So one can get from the Pythia (Oracle of Delphi): Gnōthi seautón. (Know thyself.) And not: Know your objectified god = money. :biggrin:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Mutagen

    Mutagen MDL Addicted

    Feb 18, 2013
    581
    129
    30
    If you would just the brain that God gave you, you would see that he doesn't exist.
     
  6. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,103
    270
    #46 timesurfer, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    If one is not loved, one will replace with other things! To not feel "incomplete" (I love feeling empty but in world to be empty is hated)(Still love empty though ;) For true empty is full at same time :D

    Suffering is going around the block for what lies in front of us

    It lasts longer than degree can persuade them cause in a system there is always one who instigates and initiates partial/temporary worship.

    This guilty party is "always" God and one can only deal with god since god is inside all of us by forgiving

    Forgiveness being something that does not go from forgiver to forgived (Kick out all others from personal space)

    We forgive ourselves only and that is christs discovery through my pespective

    That god as "others" can fall and not ever want to be re-united nor will they be in an eternal environment but...

    I have forgiven god in "others" and for a moment cleared my amnesia of god and I was completely free and completely safe until I fell again :weep: in just being an child who did not like darkness or evil, I challenged it when I should have not but was into star wars and thought dark had to be taken down and thus was taken down trying to take down evil :( just like anakin, fooled, but I sacrificed myself rather than go down the dark path, cause I would have never harmed the innocent in my wish to eliminate darkness so I realize that only in denying evil battle could I win?

    Resonance vs. competition - I was in .0000000000000000000000000000001 % competition but still got took down and god kept me up a little to endure and wait

    I knew to not want anything excessive to maintain the clearing of amnesia of god. Just the basics (Mac and cheese and soda pop :eek:), nothing that would cause me to be objectified/controlled? Nothing that would take away my freedom

    Desires are our Achilles' heel <--- Main Buddhist teaching

    But at least I have remeberence of having cleared my amnesia of god

    So have memory of memory of God even though the actual full amnesia clearing is unconcious or unmanifested as I type on MDL :suicide:

    That gives me comfort

    I did it and wait till all others have cleared their amnesia or suffering :D

    Care to wait with me Yen? Or are you like "I'm out of here...lol"

    I don't blame you if your like "I'm out of here...lol"

    I am not here just for me as all my endevours here should testify or be representative

    A "fee" to know god or ourselves? MDL charges no fee other than being good! And being good is always free...

    I'll hang around!

    I've got nowhere else to "be"

    :shisha:

    BODHISATTVA
    Bodhisattva
    bodhisattva
    Bodhisattva

    Code:
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bodhisattva
    Bodhisattva

    Code:
    "For as long as space endures
    
    And for as long as living beings remain,
    
    Until then may I too abide
    
    To dispel the misery of the world."
    Padmasambhava - The second buddha
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmasambhava
    http://www.wildmind.org/mantras/figures/padmasambhava

    Duncan Sheik - The End of Outside

    So just be a brain and god doesn't exist...lol

    Hence all of worlds problems including one's own don't exist if god doesn't exist...lol

    Ignorance is bliss, sounds good to me...lol
     
  7. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    4,076
    4,648
    150
    Is that like "Thank GOD I'm an athiest"
    :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,103
    270
    #48 timesurfer, Apr 16, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
    I believe he's working with some very high level mathmatics and very advanced technology!

    Of course we will never be able to afford this machine to do this very high level mathmatics and very advanced technology!

    But in god we will trust him and hopefully he'll share his findings with no bias or predisposition of what his analysis gives him?

    And he will charge us for his "findings" :eek:

    And if we don't pay his tax he'll brand us as witches and sacrifice us so that his machine will give him better answers which to imposter god and market our souls back to us over the course of "time"

    Sound familiar?

    Yea it's called history

    Where:

    Someone knows very well "something" but keeps it secret to use it over others, not sharing or admitting, just using what the "witch" :wizard: uses but kills the witch/shaman so that he can rule with magic "that doesn't exist" because only god has power and god is outside us so we're victims

    And lets call that atheist :suicide:...lol

    One who knows that energy and the mind are real but keeps ti to himself not cause he's scared of being burn't at stake but because he see's it an advantage to pretend something doesn't exist yet use it, yet invalidate/kill others who are aware of the mind and energy to control and play god

    The athiest, coming to an historical cycle near you ;)

    He knows what the spiritual person knows but pretends not to so he can use it against others...lol

    Athiest = :sith: remember who The emperor was in Star Wars until he exposed himself. He was an seemingly innocent "nice" politician!
     
  9. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,662
    13,331
    340
    TBH I have some problems to moderate some threads here. I do not want to censor, but I do not want to have personal off topic talks here.

    I have deleted some posts, but re-opened the mary jane thread.
    Controversies are no problem, also 'little' verbal fights.
    But when it degenerates to a dialog of 2 members...verbally fighting....I need to moderate.....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,103
    270
    #50 timesurfer, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
    Hi Yen, here is what I see is going to happen. Since Darth gorski can't come here to vent his unhappy and frustrating life by making negative and instigation based comments whilst I replying in amusement, he will go to my Cannabis thread and continue to flame and be off topic with his insensitivity and uninformed aggressive behaviors. In having been moderator I recognized it is best to seek out the instigator and who initiates such awful behavior not the one who merely responds with amusing anecdotes as I do. I have the feeling since Darth gorski cannot control himself and everything is a joke to him, including the real lives of others, that things can only get worse thus I request the Cannabis thread remain closed for the time being, since I wanted it to a positive and supportive endevour for Cannabis users both patient and recreational, not a hatred and spreading false information based thread as Darth gorski had intended my thread be! I compare precise and sensitive moderation to the analogy of reading a book with three pages. If your only reading page two and page three, then what happens on page one left out of any true analysis and thus consequential accurate action to be taken is missed! I resigned from MDL moderation because I believed, as much as I love MDL and it's members and moderators/administration, that certain necessary actions we're not being taken to protect developers (which left) and that certain Darth gorski types we're being allowed to roam freely in hate and invalidation while going completely unchecked.

    Now on to developing the rearm concept as good as it can get so users have the best rearm tool available, which in my opinion is what MDL is about! Free help and caring service to members both new and old because the best things in life are given freely and in good spirit :D

    Thank you :shisha:

    Sincerely,

    TS

    p.s. Thanks for the new smileys I requested

    :poop: :magiccarpet: :pray:
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    4,834
    1,291
    150
    Crickey...:rolleyes:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

    Oct 15, 2011
    2,489
    5,308
    90
    Yen sir wrote;
    Timesurfer wrote;


    This thread was inspired by an argument I recently heard by an atheist and a theist in which they advanced the famous doctrine of freewill by way of proving God’s love for man. It then occurred to me that one cannot speak of freewill if God is supposed to be omniscient. For omniscience, e.i, implied foreknowledge on the part of God that Daz was going to write the windows loader even before he did. How then can you say Daz and Timesurfer (famous for duality 420:)) had the power of making free choices, unrestrained by external forces? And doesn’t that imply foul-play on the part of God, since he foresaw the Fall of Microsoft (win7 and office10,13...):D and yet let it happen all the same, having it in his power (omnipotence) to make it otherwise?

    I couldn’t elicit any reasonable replies here from my interlocutor, but I can well imagine repartees along the following lines:

    1. God knows that not all people would obey his commands, but creates them nonetheless to serve as examples (scapegoats, if you will) to discourage others from doing likewise. But isn’t that begging the question?

    2. God isn’t omniscient in the sense of knowing the actions of men beforehand. But this, again, entails a contradiction.

    3. God works in mysterious ways and it would be presumptuous to imagine we can discern the workings of a Mind such as His. To this, I cannot dispute. But then the argument takes on a mystical garb, which cannot be subjected to the rules of logic.

    The implications of such a view would be in line with the doctrine of predestination, and touches upon the age-old philosophical debate between determinism and freewill.:confused:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,103
    270
    #53 timesurfer, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
    Answer:

    You separate too much man and god, like as if god isn't in mans every move.

    You also speak without regarding god is both dark and light side of force hence

    Who is to speak as to whether Daz, timesurfer, Cody are behaving against an ethical model? Ethical model on earth not existing just "so called free will"

    Unfortunately to judge is to be out of sync with an whole system analysis or neutral observation which would include all things, all "times" and all places under one god and/or one will, hence there is no discerning this or that being god or not!

    Hence even Darth gorski is gods will but to those whose hearts pursue equality and love, bad people cause unnecessary pain and problems to solve, which is really an distraction to avoid creating an synchronicity between all souls on earth as one people undivided and of whom pursue peace on earth rather than a division of men, thus increased pain and harm unto humans and all they are custodians of on earth

    :shisha:
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    4,834
    1,291
    150
    Please, stop lying (to yourself, more than anything) so blatantly (unintelligent, really, for all who read anything I wrote here easily see through your "arguments") about my position(s)...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,662
    13,331
    340
    The key is there where time is created. Let's say anything is created now and only now. The duality of the mind then distorts this present into the past and future. Both reside in the mind as thoughts and not as present reality.
    There is no foreknowledge for god, god creates now. There is no gain of knowledge to god, hence it is said ´he's omniscient. In the present is anything included already.

    The mind constantly excludes from a 'unity' due to a wrong identity (idea of incompleteness) and hence 'creates' the object and the 'minus object', its counterpart.

    The present is timeless and hence there is no progress, progress is actuallly an illusion...

    So if one asks now from where I parrot this.....or opposes : This is no proper thinking or the like....
    Yes it isn't, I never claimed it is. Linear thinking is tied to the idea of time.

    I do experience this! When one has 'learned' some mind training and is able to focus on the present (full awareness), then one can be the observer who observes how anything's source resides in the present. And how it becomes an idea of the past and future by objectifying it.

    This cannot be studied, this is no proper thinking, this is actually real science, but (still) ridiculed by established science. It is because it puts ALL what could be studied into a different perspective....all what ever could be studied is an idea of this present and changes constantly in the progressing time, but will never describe it 'fully'.
    Let's say time 'changes' because the mind constantly has a different idea of the present...the present itself ever remains unchanged. You are THIS present, it is pure being. The mind creates an idea of god and human until both re-unite.
    The re-union process is a product of time...in the aspect of the present, re-union does not happen...because there is no separation at all...

    But it does not stop here. The observer of the present and the observation and the things that are observerd are 3 different ideas of one present. And when degenerated into a mind-statement one can also say: God and the Self are not different. 'They' are that what is now.....the only reality.


    You should be able to look through an individual's ego and see that the real self is not diffferent to 'the One life'.
    Your ego's are wasting time...it doesn't matter what 'darth gorski' is doing, it is just one of your ideas. Let that settle and you'll see that it is senseless to continue over and over again. The enemy is your ego, not 'darth gorski'.....lol... :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. digitalbear

    digitalbear MDL Member

    Oct 23, 2012
    122
    15
    10
    #56 digitalbear, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
    As a newcomer :) I would just like to say this in a light open-minded way:

    Trying to measure or understand God is like taking the inverse of 0 or nothing which is infinite and this number cannot be truly & fully understood as our minds is only finitely powerful and limited, so for myself I believe in him because I choose to and it is my free will He gave to me.

    Whatever choices we are going to make He knows already, but just maybe it is like multiple Universes in scifi :rolleyes: - each of our possible choices will lead to a different Universe scientifically speaking and I'm no physicist, but it can be the closest thing my finite mind can comprehend - won't you partly agree ?
     
  17. vrosa

    vrosa MDL Member

    Jan 31, 2011
    115
    18
    10
    Quite simple. HE knows everything that you did and will do, but the choice or decision is still yours.
     
  18. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,103
    270
    #58 timesurfer, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
    One mans lie is another mans truth and the truth is you are insensitive in all your posts. When engaged with the question do people deserve love not imprisonment, you choose imprisonment because you only think of yourself and what you want. This type of person who only thinks of himself is indeed what people are not going to believe since they have no perspective other than themselves. People want to see and hear others thinking bigger than themselves for that speaks of true genuineness. Genuineness is what touches the heart and what speaks the loudest and I doubt it very much you will ever speak or post with an sensitivity of an discussion or with love, hence who will believe you in your words of your opinion? Only those who don't use their hearts and think only of themselves? Now if that is the audience you want, then you can have it. I'm here and always have been here for more than my self! My projects here started off as for my own interest but in having an life of their own expanded into an not me thing into an others thing as well and honestly I don't believe you have the ability to think other than yourself which is in refection the audience you have, those who think of only themselves. So as far as who's watching, again, you can have the audience that that can't see past their own noses!

    If you however someday want a different audience that is real and feeling and compassionate then you have to speak from those things if you want good people to hear and believe you, otherwise you speak only to those who are selfish and self-centered and that is not my audience as do I not care what that audience thinks about me cause they are not genuine

    Dare! Show some feeling in your posts! Can you? Would it cause you to have to grow or learn something new and that is uncomfortable? Change is always uncomfortable but instead of replying point to point which you never have you'll just respond in the usual competitive insensitive way and Yen who still has much personal growth ahead of him will allow you to bully and creative dissonance where their could be connectedness and a raising of energy for greater creativity and basically a safer more fun MDL

    I think you've done a lot of thinking/studying/meditation to arrive at your conclusions about time and space and such, but to actually have experience is a whole different matter! I've taught for many years meditation and at the highest levels which in terms of Buddhism and without any dispute is Dzogchen

    However in reality one must learn to perceive or read without predisposition which is what your words sound like, like your reading off a script? When one is truly aware of one's self and their environment all those predispositions and teachings from outside one self dissolve. For instance when you say the enemy is one's ego and not another that is a perfect example of applying a dogma based reaction to the situation not actually perceiving from the present. It is "neat" to live as if one has some "perfect" ideals or philosophy like they are carrying cards around to remind them but one must let go this "insensitivity" training and only come from within. This leads to what we find inside ourselves for how we perceive is directly proportionate to any predisposition or "filters" we perceive through. So even though it is simple to have philosophy it is better to sit with one's inside awareness or instinct. It must be honed but the reward is far greater than carrying cards around for reference in "how" one must be feeling and thus how to act or react to life

    I think for a beginning level of gaining understandings Buddhism is great but that religion has a flaw and a serious one that leaves out some things so it is ultimately incomplete and thus perpetuates incomplete awareness and perceptions. I watch you do this for 3 years and always say hello to that gap in your awareness. The reason the religion Buddhism always fails when trying to deal or cope with reality is that it leaves out instincts and feelings. Many times I've taught people coming from a Buddhist background and not only do they seem to be out of the present but at the same time appear to be living in a "picture" or "image". This is not a reflection of being truly centered. Life is a path not a picture! One has a body to deal with if one is alive and that body has instincts or feelings and most followers of Buddha miss his teaching and try to conceal or override those instincts leaving out real perception from the present. Outside one's self is also instincts in others and in the air or sunshine. These instincts of outside and inside have an connection and without acknowledging that connection of the body one can not perceive or interpret the present from which to perceive, so in your thinking you are truly reading and preceiving without emotions, feelings or instincts you are really missing the boat. Being in the body for a life form is true present-ness. Living out of the body with concepts that give appearance of perfection is not only being out of the present but not life at all which again is Buddhisms greatest flaw and your flaw in perceiving

    I admit it is hard to balance being of a good mind while dealing with "reality" as one's personal physical experience but it must be done and again to perceive without instincts in no perception just "mind play" and "mind play" is not being in the present is just your ego's reaction to a problem it can't solve

    One must take stands against negative forces and they do live outside one's self in a way. When one who is responsible doesn't act accordingly then they become more responsible and more responsible till their ego has so many layers of emotions and feelings that the only response is to shut down those feelings and thus the path away from spirit begins and I would never wish you a path away from spirit or being inside your body where your instincts lie and in combination with good state of mind that is true awareness and leads to being authentically self-reflective.

    In end when one is really inside and being self-reflective, one can see who is influencing them and for lack of better word move them out of one's personal space. However when one is in beginning stages of spiritual growth as you are, one tends to heal darkness and tries to create image of rationalization but the body doesn't like rational it likes feeling and instinct and feeling or instinct only make sense to the body not the spirit. So if one truly wishes to be "Guru" or "teacher" then one must sit in those instincts because when your communicating to real people, one is communicating to their feelings and instincts and that is where the healing and greatest understandings lie, not in having ideas about how to eliminate thoughts which is what your ego does when it has a feeling your not ready to acknowledge :shisha:...lol

    Kinda sad everyone see's god separate from one's self but can't change that till one actually has an religious experience or experiences being one with god hence he and the individual are one not separate hence the choice is actually gods ultimately even though we identify god as not us or outside one's self

    It is through this realization that one become self-empowered, which usual religions do not want, because when we act or not we acknoledge it's actually god acting in everyone and everything. What we must deal with then is what part of god's actions work for our life

    Do we allow bullying in our life or do we allow peace for god is both sides of the force and how he expresses himself through us is the challenge in seeing what we desire or what is in our heart. I say this cause we're born with stuff in our heart or we pick it up at birth from our parents. So if god or we can create anything we must look into our heart and see what is already there and replace what we don't want in our hearts with what we do want and ideally what is healthy for ourselves, others and our environment both locally and greater
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    12,662
    13,331
    340
    I agree with you since I get what you say. :) I said it's like division by zero, lol...
    Black bold: This is another expression of: Anything is already reasoned in the present, it is unchangeable and 'perfect'.
    The choices then are abstracted from the present by the mind and put into time.

    Red: 'Your' mind is finite since it's tied to time. But there is an 'intelligence' beyond this all. This intelligence is infinite / eternal since it is ever now. In fact there is no difference of this intelligence and your Self.

    Yes, I agree with that. Own will is 'his' will related to one's idea. His will is free will, it actually belongs to no object, we only say so because we need to relate when speaking, your will is own will.

    When own will and 'his' will unites, all suffering vanishes....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    4,834
    1,291
    150
    For the umpteenth time, Timey, I support Mara for MEDICAL purposes! NO TO PAIN AND NEEDLESS SUFFERING!!!

    But my answer is too sophisticated for you, because you can not hold the following in your mind, as it surpasses 3 seconds of "psychological present-ness" that you only have...

    NO to GENERAL legalisation of any such stuff, because some (especially very young) people may well be irreversibly damaged by it! Moreover, as a matter of principle, when used for pure escapism, which reminds me of good old "coma/soma", which goes a long way to maintaining status quo, which is humanly unbearable, totally unacceptable for a critically minded person like myself - the answer for me is again a big, resounding NO!!!!! I want the conditions for the need of cannabis (and so on) - abolished!!! Now, how bad am I?!?:rolleyes:

    After this, you call me a Hitler - and I say to you "There is no greater Hitler than you, Timey, because anyone who doesn't agree with you 10000% immediately and without any "ifs and buts" is, to your "mind", a "Hitler" and whatnot!!!!"

    Seriously, I believe you, when you state that you are a patient for 9 years now... I can see how that is the case... Anyone who can not tolerate ANY deviations from your thinking is then subjected to a torrent of abuse! And that is NAZISM!!! Check yourself in again, please... You seem to need it. Really! Projecting yourself onto everybody like that is really a sign of a piss poor mental health... Sorry but I have had enough of this abuse of yours and I refuse to just shrug my shoulders off and say "What can we do"! This is what I can do - be an undistorted mirror. See this? That's REAL YOU!!! That is how you REALLY BEHAVE! And it's BAD!!!

    LISTEN UP!!!!

    I agree with you! I AGREE WITH YOU!!! CAN YOU HEAR?!? I AGREE WITH YOU!!! CANNABIS FOR MEDICAL REASONS IS OK BY ME!!! NO IFS OR BUTS!!! But not indiscriminate usage for all, regardless of age. sensitivity, possible self-esteem issues etc. etc. And you call me Hitler for that? FFS.... Some "logic" and "tolerance" - and then you call me "intolerant"... Honestly... No self-insight whatsoever...

    Over and out! Good night!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...