If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

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Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    37 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. If no, then how?

    45 vote(s)
    54.9%
  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Holy Mother of Zig-Zag, this is still going and some are even "debating mysticism"!:rolleyes::D:worthy: Halleleuuuuuuuuuuuuyyyyyyyyaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!:yeahyeah:
     
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  2. shotinthehead

    shotinthehead MDL Novice

    Aug 14, 2009
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    My thought on this may have already been expressed but here goes:

    Predestined self will.

    Not chosen for us but worked into the ultimate design. Meaning "god" knows our every decision before we have made it being omniscient and weaves the ultimate plan of the universe to include those decision.
     
  3. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    Not necessarily. Of course we have free will within the framework of natural and universal "laws". If God exists he could be omniscient and all mighty but we don't know, we don't have access to that information. However, there's only one truth out there that has nothing to do with our ephemeral existence, past and future, but anything we conceive in our minds is absolutely freewill.

    We, as species, are free to choose our thoughts and course of actions based on our brain configuration, that is, our free will depends on our underlying brain functions, emotions and intelligence quotient.

    All that said, God doesn't even shows up itself to prove its existence, hence if God exists or doesn't, won't really matters to our free will. We as a whole species not as individuals, are forging the future of this planet day by day.

    Don't forget that the world oligarchy use their free will and great intelligence to inflinct manipulation to the rest of the world human's free will. Hey, they need to maintain the status quo.
     
  4. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
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    #684 timesurfer, Sep 2, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
    What is bothering the masses in this "amnesia of god" stricken historical cycle where man falls from spiritual realization is not how things work but rather is god both sides of the coin?

    Is God both good and evil, wearing both dark shirts and light shirts

    In scriptures the "Devil" asks God permission to bring evil into the world by deceiving it's occupants and God's like yea ok, go for it :eek:

    And that god or everything/everywhere eternally would have ever allowed such unspeakable and horrific events and harm to the creatures of the world and the environment

    More interesting to me is how we as a planet and solar system returns to a higher order and synchronized and harmonized experience of life on earth

    But that question sit's in invalidation only when temporary/limit science gives us a chaotic model of reality instead of an self-existing/harmonic model of cosmology

    True science is applied cosmology

    :shisha:
     
  5. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Assuming that God exists ! God is the Devil and vice versa since God is literally everything. God will have to be a violent pacifist at the very least. :p
     
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  6. vegad

    vegad MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2012
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    All these concepts about god is few centuries old......Older answers are not sufficient for new questions.. don't you think that we require a totally new idea which will embrace multiple and contradictory truths... Such is the limitation of our language and thinking process that same set of arguments in favor of god can be utilized for against god also....
     
  7. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

    Jan 25, 2012
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    A concept involves the mind, but mind cannot comprehend itself, let alone God. People going this path will sure end up in a mental hospital.
     
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  8. vegad

    vegad MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2012
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    When you are writing this ,what is comprehending what ? . mind can comprehend itself (may not be fully,but partially )..Don't fear unknown territories bro.. believe me; Path breakers do exists:)
     
  9. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

    Oct 15, 2011
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    Since experiences of God are good grounds for the existence of God, are not experiences of the absence of God good grounds for the nonexistence of God? After all, many people have tried to experience God and have failed. Cannot these experiences of the absence of God be used by atheists to counter the theistic argument based on experience of the presence of God,

    Read more about this in the book Atheism: A Philosophical Justification by Michael Martin.
     
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  10. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

    Aug 25, 2011
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    With the myriad of ways to fool the brain that we know of - optical illusions, placebo effects, even illness of the brain that leads to hallucinations and whatnot; combined with the nature of the human ego - I think it's safe to say relying on any "experience" any individual makes is no basis whatsoever to find truths. You are willingly entering the territory of trying to prove the absence of something, which you shouldn't do, because any doubt you raise about your own method will be used against you as some counter-proof for the existence by those who twist the scientific method for their needs.

    Those who claim, prove. Atheism doesn't have to justify itself. It's the default stance until someone can prove otherwise.
     
  11. acyuta

    acyuta MDL Expert

    Mar 8, 2010
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    As far as I know in Hinduism as expounded in the Gita, we are free in our actions but we have no right to expect our actions to produce the desired (hopefully favourable) results. We are free to do good or bad, and our actions past or present definitely lead to future consequences. All actions lead to consequences but if we dedicate our actions and the fruit of our actions to the Lord, then they do not bind us, and our soul is liberated.

    Whether that is relevant to the thread I do not know or care. For me, seeing God in all beings is the most important thing. In Christian philosphy, maybe that is saying `do unto others as you want to be done to you' or whatever.
     
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  12. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Very scientific, indeed. :rolleyes: You are beating yourself with your own arguments. How do you determine the absence of god without to have an idea of it, without to 'experience' it?

    The experience (of absence of 'something') is according to your arguments "no basis whatsoever to find truths".
    Your posts sounds actually ridiculous to scientists and theists together.

    Either the 'ego' that makes experiences is forged any time or never. Either way it is always the ego that comes to the conclusion. You always pick own truths. What is the default stance of zero temperature ('absence of')? = 0 degrees of Celsius, Fahrenheit or Kelvin?

    The entire 'issue' is that discursive thinking needs a cause and an effect. Hence any objects are relative to the own object which appears as the illusionary subject. Direct perceiving needs no cause.
    Try to prove your own being. (But don't be such a fool as Descates had been). Even if you should come to the conclusion that you do not exist (that there is no being), that what makes the conclusion exists.
    This is named by the theists 'god' and is no object. It is the real subject.
     
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  13. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
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    #693 timesurfer, Oct 9, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
    All consequences (effect) are of one and only one causality and that causality is God, hence to forgive is all one can ever really do to heal themselves or attain enlightenment because at the root of everything in eternity is :worthy: God and we are God, thus to heal we ultimately forgive ourselves not others ;)

    MDL Forum Rules - Communication Section - Rule 1.3 and 1.3 is a fractal of 13 and Jesus was the 13th...lol

    http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/18562-Forum-Rules

    Theists / gorski's :p...lol
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Theists / atheists....:biggrin3::roflmao::gathering::clap::wavetowel2::mml::tooth::trollface:
     
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  15. Paiva

    Paiva MDL Developer

    Apr 9, 2011
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    I think we are all free.

    Many are arrested for religions and atheists scientists.

    The important thing is to be happy. ;)

    Note: I believe in God.
     
  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Imagine Beethoven simply and constantly happy or in pursuit of "happiness" at all times... Alcohol, ganja, harder stuff, whatever...

    I think this is a false endeavour altogether... And I blame Hollywood... :D
     
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  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    good/bad, high/low, black/white, plus/minus, like/dislike.... :biggrin3::roflmao::gathering::clap::wavetowel2::mml::tooth::trollface:


    It is false (illusionary), if it is dependent on something. (More appearance than reality...an attribute that can be assigned to the US 'representatives' generally... :D)
     
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  18. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Or Theist/Atheists = Nonsense/Sense :smokecowboy:
     
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  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    More like "face of a coin" and "flip-side of the (same proverbial) coin"... Ultimately, not verifiable and provable, hence irrelevant...:cool:

    Yen, everything "is dependent on something"...:p
     
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  20. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I didn't want to make an equation to Theist/atheist pair myself, the order of those pairs is meant to be random.
    My reply was a sort of agreement to Gorski's.
    Can be bad/good, low/high, white/black, minus/plus, dislike/like...:).

    I wanted to show up the 'issues' any dualistic expressions have. The 'drama' comes from the ego involved.
    To be an observer of the drama brings happiness.


    I know. :shake:
    Except the 'default stance' TCM talked about. :D
     
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