Okay, if that post of mine will create any Godly issue or make others to raise the eyebrow, then I'm deleting that post. Sorry!!
You are getting me wrong. I have addressed yourself. I wanted you to ask yourself : Have you created a situation with an own possible acceptable solution? I wanted 'protect' you of a hopeless situation. I have asked myself similar matters in the past..and came to the conclusion there is no acceptable solution...
Gorski, I know that this sounds crazy at first sight...to stop thinking. But I don't mean to beat one's head with a hammer, or unconsciousness, lol. It has no other way than to sound crazy, since it is evaluated with thinking itself (individual reason). I also know that a few readers here understand what I try to communicate. Either we are all....crazy or........ Our activity to think is not constant. To research the differences in perception then should be a valid activity. One important step in evolution of humankind is that humans valued an object not because of its own use / benefit, in the sense of 'capital', which I have got, but because of its beauty...to perceive beauty...the first time. Why are birds, flowers, just born creatures, beautiful? When I have a look at flowers and I conceive their beauty, what 'happens'? When I dance to a monotone rhythm and the awareness of being becomes present, what 'happens'? When somebody is left speechless at birth of the own baby, what 'happens'? Is it (a higher level of) individual reason due to thinking? Or reduces it thinking and as a CONSEQUENCE absolute being shines into individual consciousness and the observer recognizes his own unity and beauty as aspect of being (absolute spirit) in them? One can have a look at a beautiful flower and evaluate the own Philosophy....
The question is, what would jesus (ore anybody else in this time) have said about something, that you understand and know, that it is NOT a miracle, but he/they did not. Asian culture knows about magic points on the body, you just have to press, to heal, to paralyse, or even to kill somebody. Is this magic? is it a miracle? Whats with the beggar? Did i heal him? The very first christian scriptures were made 50 - 60 years a.d., then up to 100 years a.d., a livespan was only 40 to 50 years at this time. Till then the jesus-story was passed by word. You know the game "Chinese whispers"? Passing by word changes storys, makes them magnificent, gorgeous, and mystic. Thats the way, myths, sagas, fables and folktales arise. Ask your relatives about an event, not 2000 but only twenty years ago. Ask one by one, and then tell, what happened, considering that everybody tells pure truth. Ask people (one by one) 20 min. after an incident, what happened. You're from brasil. Your ancestors have taken portuguese conquistadores as gods, because they had ridden of horses. Asian monks break stones with their head. Is that magic or knowlwdge and practice? Asian doctors heal by prick needles in the skin, by pressing points on the body (just like jesus touched the invalid), is that magic?
It was cool now. Of course stories of past generations are changed. But not to say that did not happen. Back in time even. hehe The facts proved that my ancestors were not gods. They themselves say: "What is the practice of the spiritual." They nourish the spirit and can do things besides. And the multiplication of the loaves and fishes? Regards,
Yen, with all due respect to a (fellow) scientist, I have to tell you that you are a BLOODY AMATEUR in the (social sciences) area, so what really IRRITATES is your tone of absolute dismissivness of views that differ from yours (your totalising statements are infuriating to the bone, to someone like me, who knows a few more things on the subject than you, sorry...)... I can easily see you have no clue on the topics discussed but that does not stop you from being quite "bold" in what you write... On the other hand, the difference betweeen the two of us comes from the fact you are a metaphysics paddler and I am a historical thinker (of revolution )... No chance of seeing eye to eye on ANY subject... Cheerio, m8!
Disclaimer: I'm not adressing anyone here directly. I live by a very simple world view: Be cautious of people who claim to know stuff they can't prove, for they want to control the weak-minded or be something more that they aren't. Be humble and acknowledge that you know nothing until enlightenment comes from the scientific process. Everything else is just egos talking out of their spiritual asses and selling you energy smoothers and water detectors on Astro TV. Spiritualism, by its very nature, is only ever an attempt to explain things without basing them in reality. It may be a good mechanism to find out something about yourself - your soul if you will[1] - but as soon as it leaves your head in the form of a formulated opinion, it's nothing more than that: your opinion. And if you publish your opinion about unproven stuff long and hard enough, it only makes your motives look dubious. Spiritualism, in the heads of its practitioners, only ever "explained" things that mankind couldn't explain otherwise. Look, a flash of lightning, must be a god. Fast forward, no it's just electricity through friction of air. Earth is flat, or maybe not. Earth in the center of the solar system? (What? Solar system?) Oops, not that either. Metaphorically speaking, scientific knowledge is the gas you inject into a vacuumed box and the vacuum is spiritualism. While the gas may never completely fill the box, it wins over the vacuum along the way. We may never find out where the Universe came from, let alone why it exists. That's no reason to make up stuff about it. Just look at the myriad of things that spiritualism was wrong about and still it's claimed to have any merit. "Uhh, it was wrong 99% of the time but I still believe it's right about the missing 1%." Yeah Sherlock, that'll be it. Just be humble and acknowledge that we actually know jack s**t about it and go on your merry way exploring the stuff that we _can_ explore. There's so much stuff to marvel at, that it fills the lifetimes of who knows how many people and still there are people sitting around confidently and thinking they know it all. Preposterous. The good thing is, facts don't care about opinions. A hydrogen atom - or rather our idea of it - exists no matter how your perception models your reality for you. And our idea of it must be actually very correct. Basically your whole life couldn't be what it is if our idea of atoms wasn't pretty much correct so far. Just look at a plastic bag and try to think about how it can exist if plastic exists nowhere in nature. Think about it the next time you go have an X-ray. Does that mean we know everything about atoms? Most probably not. Just look at the word: atom from the Greek atomos, meaning indivisible. It was correct until subatomic particles were "discovered". Noone is denying that we may have to revise our theories in the future. Does that invalidate our current ideas if basically all modern chemistry works on it? No way. Gravitation exists no matter if you believe it or not. It doesn't just exist for some group of believers while another group has their own gravity. It's a universal concept. That _is_ reality. It doesn't depend on any perception. If it didn't, there wouldn't actually _be_ anyone there to perceive it. These are things I regard as perceptionless reality. The theories surrounding it may be incomplete, but the reality - as it is - is the same for everyone, even if there wasn't actually anyone to perceive it. [1] I'm actually keen to acknowledge that there isn't even such a thing as a soul and it's all just electricity and biological processes. I've seen no evidence for the contrary but so much evidence in favour: brain waves being electrically measurable, pharmaceuticals being able to completely control your mood and perception, Alzheimer's completely changing what we would describe as the soul etc.
As i said: You're a programmer, you do not need me for logical operations. If you tell me a story, first step ist "listen ...". Next step is "sounds reasonable?". Next: "other possible relationships and explications?", "What's more probable?", "Have the unlikely options some strong aspects over the more probable?", ... One simple possible explanation is, he does not "clone" fish and loav, or replicate it (like in star trek), but he was greatly generous. Maybe the talkers miss"translate" this multiplication by "putting more and more on the table", with "magically materialize it". Language was, from today's point of view, certainly ornate and unfamiliar. Some would say, M. L. King or Gandhi, they did miracles, but with another meaning. For me this "holly" book is not about "god" or "miracles" but about the meaning of the decalogue. It is self-evident, that we all can't live without the society, that everybody has the right to live and that this includes the right for resources, to live from, and that everybody on this world in this manner is my "brother". "Miracles" and "god" are flavouring ingredients, to transport this message. "YOU'RE MY BROTHER!" << in this words, there "lives" god, and nowhere else.
Please check the spelling before posting the person's name. It is Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi a leader and freedom fighter of India.
Yes sir, your words remind me of something like breaking down the parts and flow the function of a computer. It doesn't help the operators. But it would only be found interesting by a computer mechanics. Is it necessary to know how the watch works to tell the time?
@sid_16 Thanks for the hint and very sorry for the mistake . He, his ideas, his way of live are inspiration for King and so many other great thinkers.
Just a few days before i have read about him in wikipedia, tried to get more insight to his nonviolent resistance and i knew, how to spell his name. He's the one, who found (from my point of view) the only working way, to keep the earth habitable and make it a peaceful, free world for everyone. In this spirit he is a holly man for me. Seven billions of people can't thank him enough for bringing this idea of nonviolent resistance to our attention.
While it could work against the far away Brits, with so many Indians taking the time to think it through and give it a chance - could it have worked in Europe with Fuhrer, Duce, Franco and all the rest of them waiting in every single country?!? Do not forget that every single country in the West had their Fascists/Nazis! Could you really have simply "peacefully resisted" all that? For how long? How many tens of millions of (especially "different") dead people would it take to get up and do the right thing? And when all the "different ones" were eliminated and they turned inwards, to "their own", who differed in values, opinions, ideology from the ruling barstewards - then what?
@gorski I cannot dismiss something of what I have no clue. I appear to be bold because I'd like to share what is important in my life and I am practicing. Some people know what I try to communicate, to others its just something of no use. It is nothing 'special' or own, it is shared with others practicing the same, words can be different, though. It has its origin in Yoga, Vedanta and is not meant to dismiss or disrespect science. @TCM Thanks for posting your input. You are right concerning spiritual organizations, especially sects. Many became victim of those, especially when searching for spiritual answers in life crisis. Such organizations have in common ego interests such as money and they promise to have the one and only way to enlightenment. My background came due to my countless travels and interaction with other cultures. I do not belong to any organization and my profession is Organic Chemistry. Both can coexist and IMHO most discrepancies are due to lack of understanding of each others. I rather use both as different 'tools', I apply science where it fits. I do not ridicule science, I am very interested and since I am a researcher I inform myself concerning new insights reading scientific publications. (And of course I work all day in my lab researching for new phyto pharmaceuticals.) Scientific theories are made to illustrate relative coherences and they change in the time. Of course they are not invalidated during time, but their relation changes. When I teach students I use the model which is suitable to show up the needed coherences. If Bohr is sufficient I do not use the orbital model.... Anyway the theory / model is not the phenomenon itself. The matter 'reality' is a special one to each scientist and also to 'spiritualists'. At some posts I tried to show up events which indicate an approximation to each others..... I do not want to change somebodies world view. I suggest to stay curious and if inconsistencies should appear to research them. For instance if you know what Einstein has meant with: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." then you need to go into details. Einstein's absolute is 'light'. It travels whilst it doesn't age itself.....also he recognized time / space as a continuum....this has similarities in spirituality.... @sid. In addition to post #812 Is it necessary to know how the watch works to tell the time? Translated to the issue of different gods, it would be (rather poor attempt, lol): "I do not accept time as real until somebody shows me a watch...and which watch has the right time then? A monk said to me one time...When you deeply in your heart accept that god cannot be found then you know god. That what seeks for him is actually not different, how can one find god at all? Again....no offense or something, your posts are appreciated. Just words that might be a little helpful.
@ Yen, I'm sad to see many spiritual organizations/sects that are focused only on money. Taking the poor without any compassion. If there is a God evil is greed. @fakeraol, Certainly there are good people. =))
Faith in the metaphysical realm is not testable. One makes a 'leap of faith' regardless the metaphysical explanation.
lol...Who was that guy who had an apple fall onto his head and thus came up with the idea of gravity even before gravity was provable via mathematical formulas between physical objects? You got to have an idea before you can test it even when the ways to test ideas have not been conceptualized like that guy who had apple fall on his head ...lol @Yen, sorry I took so long to reply but I wanted to give you time with an new (concept) for how "things/objects/life" works Science is quite the tricky object! It gives temporary proofs as to how (objects) work/functions yet when desiring a comprehensive analysis of the cosmos is always falls short of infinite/complete schematics or descriptions to define such topics I only offer my the non-conceptualized demonstration that the real mind how it really is, is more than an obstacle or "speed bump" but rather an ultimate integral part of how reality works comprehensively "The mind governs both the physical/non-physical in perfection throughout all eternity" hence whatever varying pre-conceptualizations of the mind truly defines/manifest what is possible given the limited/unlimited ideas of what the mind is exactly Hence if you have the "idea" that the mind is a deceiver not an informer then your mind/ego will manifest only what you have defined the mind to be capable of. If you however, free your mind, then your personal universe becomes limitless and without judgements as to what is possible Free the mind and the mind frees the body/manifestations in harmony/sync with the unmanifest/permanent of the non-changing/self Hope that makes "things" more clear for you as you journey on your path to self-rediscovery TS