If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

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Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    36 vote(s)
    45.0%
  2. If no, then how?

    44 vote(s)
    55.0%
  1. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    Probably God bought the tools from an American Hardware Store, but the tools were MADE IN CHINA. :laie:
    Nuts, bolts, wrench keys, Allen keys...you name it. :laie:
     
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Joe & co.: this is all done at a way more serious level by the most veneered figures in the Church/religion history (Thomas A. and so on) that this "argument" of "yours" really seems childish (to say the least) - "Oh, it's a mystery" or "Credo quia absurdum" and it was BS then and it is BS now, only back then you couldn't challenge it, if you loved your life...

    Today, we can simply state that we are not to be offended by the offer of embracing immaturity, thank you very much for nothing!!!

    [FONT=Courier New, Courier, Monospace]http://www.english.upenn.edu/~mgamer/Etexts/kant.html[/FONT] - if you dare...:rolleyes:

    I don't need God and fear of Hell to be a decent Human being!!!! :cool:

    If you do :confused: - my severe condolences!!! :weep:
     
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    imaginary friend fiend.jpg

    Amen!
     
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  4. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    I agree with him, but the definition of Enlightenment...is that there's no definition. I agree with the rest though.

    Those who do...are still in their infancy so you can't ask much, just let them be. :D
     
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  5. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #1285 Joe C, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015

    Wow.... you really have some serious issues.
    If you want to think that having a God that loves you is such a terrible thing, then have at it. I've never mentioned anything about hell, that's your own doing as well as your whole Church/religion thing. I'm not arguing or attempting to ask you to do anything about it. It is a mystery to those that refuse to believe, Because they're blinded and can not be capable of any understanding
     
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  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    How do you know that God loves you if you can't know that such a creature exists, to begin with?

    And even if s/he does exist - how on Earth would you know s/he loves you?

    What if s/he is tempting you all the time???

    Maybe even torturing is included...

    And I have issues?

    Madre mia!
     
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  7. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    :laie: :laie: :laie:
    So, God is a creature... :g: :laie:

    Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, if you believe the book-religions...He, because it's obviously a HE, has a comedian side. :laie:
     
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  8. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Jesus Christ came here on earth and told us that the Father loves us, and he even sent his Holy Spirit here to help us after he ascended. I do not think you can possibly understand what I'm saying because you simply refuse to accept, and I am not going to try to make you accept what you do not want
     
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  9. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    This is not the subject of the topic.
     
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  10. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #1290 Joe C, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
    I did not ask the question

    My reply was only of my personal view, and I express that it is not my intent to persuade anybody to believe in what I believe
     
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  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    More BS, Vicar? :D:biggrin::rolleyes::D:p
     
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  12. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #1292 Joe C, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015

    You are entitled to have your own opinion, because you do have a free choice
     
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  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I agree with you sid_16. :)
    But that all depend on the definition of to exist, the (assumed) reality of time and the concept (of god) as a separate relative entity.

    Your statement is wrong when god is absolute and eternal. From this absolute the concept of god (the human idea of god) and human 'itself' emerge..when? In the now.

    From the aspect of reality your true nature and god are the same. In Hinduism it's called Atman, the Christians say Christus (nature).


    Another consideration....

    Let's assume one is aware of all (infinite) further actions which another one could do next....and the other one is doing one of them.
    Had he free will or not?
     
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  14. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    The question is then, did "one" have any knowledge about it? If "one" knows all possibilities but not which one will be chosen, that is not omniscient.
     
  15. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    If God knows our choice before we make our choice, does not mean he will mettle in what choice we make, whether it be a wrong choice or correct, so we still have a free choice
     
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  16. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    How so? Either he knows it or you have free choice. It can't be both.
     
  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    That would mean your definition of omniscience requires time in order that somebody can know something beforehand.

    How long would it take to become omniscient? :)

    Somebody who knows 'an infinite amount' must be either eternal or needs an infinite time (To know anything).

    That means you claim for the impossible. To know something beforehand and to know anything cannot coexist.
     
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  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Is there another idea of God you are aware of, m8? :D

    Or do you have a special idea of God? :D

    (Oooooo, tricky answer to give... :D )
     
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  19. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    Yen already answered that question: IN THE NOW. ;)
     
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  20. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    #1300 TCM, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
    Again you're derailing from common definitions.

    Define "omniscience". Define "god". Then make your claim. Then show your proof.

    This constant bulls**tting and wordplay gets old fast.

    Edit: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omniscient

    If you need to twist common definitions to make your sky daddy even logically possible, that should tell you something right there about the possible validity of the claim.