If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    37 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. If no, then how?

    45 vote(s)
    54.9%
  1. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    Aggression is your original post and to expect anything less than a equal response refects your bully mind

    Ha ha you can't debate point to point and never will cause you'll have to extend yourself further than the dummy scientists/science that you pray to in your fanatic partial science worship...lol

    lol...You tried to play the victim role to win a point :eek:

    So basically when a dummy like you can't understand something you judge it...lol

    Very intelligent...lol

    The world is still flat I get it

    No debater here cause he can only quote what he was sold by corporations/religion/governments and thus this clone/sheep is ongoingly offended when any new information is presented

    Are you sure your strong? Maybe your weak and too in your ego to admit:

    You have no unified field theory or comprehensive analysis of the cosmos

    Can you at least admit that?

    Can you?

    Answer the question?

    Do you have a unified field theory or comprehensive analysis of the cosmos? Do your phony baloney science friends?

    If not then you have no platform for discussion and basically STFU or start to debate if you can?
     
  2. Humphrey

    Humphrey MDL Expert

    Dec 13, 2011
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    I cannot see, hear, feel, touch, or taste god- therefore he doesn't exist (to me) therefore humans have free will. /thread :shutup3:
     
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  3. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    #143 TCM, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    That was the basic premise when I said this:

    You haven't presented any information beyond personal belief yet. You also seem to have some aversion against corporations and governments, when those have nothing to do with science. Science is the universal effort of educated minds to gain understanding and knowledge based on verifiable theories, no matter what government they live under.

    And yes, I rightfully call you stupid if you claim something without a testable theory, against the mountain of scientific progress that even allows you to litter the Internet with your trash in the first place.
     
  4. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #144 timesurfer, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    Blah Blah Blah, you don't have the guts to answer simple question so I'll answer it for you from your limited/limiting mind

    Pretends he is TCM with totally limited mind and projective of his mind being all minds!!!!!!!

    No TCM and his phony baloney science friends don't have a unified field theory nor can they present an comprehensive analysis of the cosmos but hey their in charge so just follow in line and do and believe what is given to you by fanatic, ego based nazis cause they have machines to describe "everything"

    Thanks for admitting that finally, through me but nonetheless you have

    No unified field theory nor can TCM or his "outside apparatus" based science friends present an comprehensive analysis of the cosmos

    HA HA :yoda:

    Always with this one what can't be done!!!!!!!
     
  5. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @TCM: Actually, I see Timesurfer as a classic example of a person with spiritual convictions. And, He is right. You don't bring anything to the table with regards to debate.
    All you do is sling acerbic commentary and criticize what you don't understand. What's worse, you criticize the belief systems of others, in an almost childish effort to make yourself feel good about not being able to find anything to believe in except your own robotic existence.

    If you don't believe in anything other than your own robotic existence, that's your choice. If you want to insult others because you're insecure about the fact that there is more than one way to view things, that's your choice as well.

    300 years ago, people of your ilk and mindset made the same worthless commentary about many of the concepts of science and physics, all of which we accept as verbatim today.

    It is conversations like this where we try to understand each other as well as ourselves. There is no room for narrow mindedness or spiritual bigotry.

    @Timesurfer: There's an old addage: "Cast not thy pearls before swine; nor lie down with dogs lest ye get up with fleas".

    @TCM: In case you're wondering where it came from, Jesus Christ said it. :)

    Peace.
     
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  6. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    #146 TCM, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    Whatever, man. You're a raging nutjob. Have a nice day.

    What's worse is he doesn't understand it either in a form he can prove. He claims some form of enlightenment which is the paramount example of arrogance from a pity human among 7 billions on a planet in a solar system among billions in a galaxy among billions.


    I don't criticize to feel good. I'd be the first to accept provable claims. Yet the proof is missing so all is left is the mind theater of a cave-dweller.

    Why are you always trying to push me into the role of the church in these days? _They_ were the critics of science and still are as we see here. You're basically saying scientists made worthless commentary about science, which doesn't even make sense.

    Edit: Have a nice day in your religious circle-jerk. You're the proof that religion is the most dangerous thing that happened to mankind.

    "Peace."

    PS: A rhetoric question on the way out: Is molesting little boys transfer of enlightenment or do you do it for fun?
     
  7. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #147 timesurfer, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    lol...TCM gave me fleas, now I'm am smarter because of your non-traditional insight. Wait that is original idea you have and could get you killed by TCM's science/gov't gang - be careful...lol

    He still won't admit he doesn't have a unified field theory or comprehensive analysis of the cosmos :p...lol

    Not strong is he can't admit that ;)

    p.s. I don't have convictions just resonate rather than think and that present's whole new information that only those who can resonate can obtain or be one with, but that is too much for TCM cause he is stuck in partial/temporary information and is threatened when he looks other than what his fanatic science/gov't/religions would have him know

    Be careful quoting a miracle [​IMG] worker will get you killed like they killed jesus cause he got upset cause someone turned a church into a bank - True story ;)

    p.s.s. How can TCM know that I don't know what I know when his completely bogus perspective, hence current contemporary, limited, partial, linear, outside apparatus, "guesstimation" based science can't come from a place to get what I may or not get? Sounds like a judgement not a true facts again :suicide:?

    In that, truly TCM's world religions, science and gov'ts are one united fiction based and molesters of present time/eternity that causes the worlds ill's not a shamanic perspective which is peaceful

    But history embodies TCM's perspective and those with no courage and lack of ethics and hyprocrcy based non-unified field addicts will always give absolute opposition to what eventually becomes self-evident ;)

    Yea!
     
  8. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    #148 Michaela Joy, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    @TCM: Nobody here cares one iota about what you believe in or what you do. We're not even talking about religion here.

    Personally, I have very little respect for organized religion. It's about power and control of the masses. (I don't think I have to even provide proof of that...)

    We're talking about spiritual concepts here. -not- religion.

    Perhaps that's what Timesurfer was trying to point out to you.

    "Religion divides us...Spirituality unites us."

    @TCM: In response to your last retort, I'm a cougar, not a pedophile.

    There's a difference.:D

    :Miki.
     
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  9. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    Reply to the bold part. The word refers to something that is not only beyond words, but outside experience. For one who has 'been in contact' with this thing, there is nothing else worth talking about, and yet for one who has not, there is no foothold of understanding - Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know. Is there something beyond 'all this'? It is pointless to ask another, or to tell another, it has to be a personal relationship, I think. Spirituality is most properly defined as absurd / self-contempt that aspires to self-transcendence (i.e. deification). And if I understand the (ontological) need as expressed by many mystical / contemplative traditions: one is "spiritual" to the degree one seeks to become (a) god.
     
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  10. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    You've left out compassion as a "reason" to intervene! And yea the hidden message of all true prophesies is we become god's, but take a closer at the global phenomena called cosmic amnesia or amnesia of God! Quite the plague upon all creatures. I mean we have bodies or space suits, all creatures do but hidden messages in scriptures all point to our forgetting of how those bodies come about?! Given we take a look from an non-scholar, non-analytic and non-usual context we interpret as literal meanings but indeed these things called Terma are hidden teachings only for few that submit their will to the will of life can receive!

    Venture into the realm of the Turton (finder of these hidden teachings) and does his life look or feel like the lives of most. Maybe not?! So why does a certain few incarnate to embody such high level wisdom as Jesus or Buddha or the Maya? Compassion and compassion alone! We try to validate ourselves by thinking as we might perceive how these hidden teachings finders might think but that is where we are left astray for they don't think to inherit higher wisdom and power: They indeed resonate to accomplish this task. And from one hidden teachings finder to the next, they sacrifice their lives with little or no self interest of their own, but to keep an level of information on the planets they incarnate on to the benefit of all humanity. I like your regurgitated "understanding" of what it must be like to be a avatar but do you really know? I think not! And your a nice guy, who is good to his family and looks out for the common good I can tell, but these highest memories and those who's lives are in a word, cursed to pass the baton to the next avatar is not your memory and this is how a dealthlessness and continual state of remembering can affect the world if only the world would get out of the way of the avatars or healers of worlds. I can testify that that experience is mine and am not scared to be ridiculed by nazi's or people based in competition and fear. I can also testify that is easy to fall from this high position of consciousnesses and be like everyone almost?! The great Quetzalcoatl did indeed become tricked by dark forces and thus fell into the same life most experience but for certain retained some memory of his higher experience. So we have people to deal with both raised up and quite fallen, but both people and the mercy I've experienced is greater than hating on good or evil things but to bring about an harmony and resonance amongst an entire planet, currently our planet earth. Is crazy to think we've lived on mars or venus or what use to be the 5th planet that is now an asteroid belt? Yea, it's crazy, but only cause we lack the memory. Most revelations in therapy or self-knowing come through unlocking memories. And when clearing the cosmic amnesia or amnesia of God, what was able to be known just got interesting to say the least. And to become a god you only need one thing or variable. The ability to re-engineer your memories. So who or what implements what they want to be remembered or forgotten on earth? Is liberty ultimately an spiritual thing? How do we unlock these ancient memories of life and/or god? Well the first step is to allow such information to exist without being ridiculed or violently oppossed!

    Then we only have to be patient with what eventually becomes self evident, so question is, does the individual want to keep the world uniformed or controled and the answer always is, the compassionate allow freedom to the individual, not governed by any "outside" forces or by what is temporary, which in all honesty is the information that we live by marketed to us by religion, governments and our latest version/build of science...

    Free your mind!
     
  11. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    what a monologue------oops diatribe!!
     
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  12. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    I find myself continuously repeating myself here. For that reason, I have decided to post some commonly misused term(s). Therefore, people won't make same mistake again.:D
    Atheist
    Literally, "Not Theist". Any person who does not believe in the existence of a Supreme Entity that created and rules over the Universe.

    Empiricist
    A person who believes that only things that can be experienced directly exist.

    Now that we have the most confused terms out of the way, lets move on to the most common types of "Faulty" Logic.

    False Analogy
    Using comparisons between items that do not have enough similarities to predict what happens to one will happen to another.

    False Premise
    Starting with an assumption that has been proven false.

    Distraction
    Distracting the audience from important criteria by use of unrelated information.

    Ad Hominem
    Concentrating on completely unrelated issues.

    Either/Or Fallacy
    Incorrectly limiting responses to only two choices.

    Post Hoc
    Stating because "B" occurs after "A", "A" must cause "B".

    Concurrence Fallacy
    Stating because "B" occurs at the same time as "A", "A" must cause "B".

    Non-Sequitur
    Conclusion completely unrelated to premise.

    Circular Reasoning
    The conclusion is assumed in the premise.

    Equivocation
    Misleading use of a term with more than one meaning.
     
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  13. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #153 timesurfer, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    Hmm Yoda speaks with deliberateness and without hesitation too, hmm, does that make Yoda like Vadar? Hmm :yoda:

    Teaching must one pay attention to not always words used yes :yoda:...lol

    He he he, regurgitate is not diatribe word :sith:

    diatribe better describes ironic or satirical criticism than something with bad intention...:yoda:

    Feel the Force sid_16 must :yoda:

    Unlearn he must what he has learned :yoda:

    Hmm when will this entity called god stop being out side us he must :yoda:

    "The force is all around us" :yoda: "Inside us and everything"

    Hmm, until that is recognized this thread goes no where he he he :yoda:

    Cause God will always seem to the atheist as enemy or something to fool people instead of the force that is both sides of the force, both sides of life

    Enters forgiveness of God who is both sides of the force...

    Free your mind :yoda:

    Point being these threads always end up showing that athiest does not like spiritual people having any concept of god cause science, religion and gov'ts always want to own stuff or be the first to discover something, so the underlying theme in every thread like this is:

    People want to own or posses life and or how it works and yet the force or life is in all of us according to some so the athiest in his partial information and competition will always get upset at the believer for they know God is a comprehensive topic which would describe an unified field theory which Science doesn't and won't ever have...

    So it's like juviniles competing over who found what first or who can describe in totality how life really works, but the athiest is just stuck with his machines and galactic size ego usually and will always feel threatened by any idea their machine or outside apparatus can't know of or describe

    And on the flip side of the coin the spiritual person will always feel limited by the athiest and his machines. And without a comprehensive shole system analysis of the cosmos or a unified field theory, how can you blame the spiritual person wanting more of an explanation usually given to him by avatars/universal spritual teachers

    Which in tern the athiest terms the avatars/universal spiritual teachers as con artists or "nutjobs"...lol

    And since sid_16 has showed an interest in defining words or language for this discussion perhaps someone might like this guys pespective

    Alfred_Korzybski

    It regards a type of semantics and the idea that human knowledge of the world is limited both by the human nervous system and by the structure of language.
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    If Yoda is utterly intolerant and stiff, morbid rigid, then Yoda = Darth Vader, the dark side...:rolleyes:
     
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  15. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

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    #155 timesurfer, Apr 28, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    Spirit based people don't deny unbiased scientific proofs, they just don't like the common denominator of life being partial which is what science gives, only partial information, when it's only the partial perspective of science regarding a complete cosmos that limits not the shamanic perspective hence science is intolerant, stiff and morbidly towards spirit believers not the other way around hence Yoda is not a scientist but a Galactic Shaman

    I guess atheists really do hate star wars :eek:...lol

    Because they would in their liking star wars acknowledge the force (God) and again their machines and partial perspective can't do or know what a Shaman can so their infinitely jealous of spiritual people cause they get what star wars was actually an metaphor for

    Maybe science will get out the way and credit the Shaman so he can heal the world from partial science, religions that don't reunite and governments that don't truly govern...

    Probably not though :D...lol

    The Galactic Shaman (Yoda) will though find a way around the barricades partial science, religions and governments put up to block what will become self evident and that is that the cosmos in indeed comprehensively interconnected in a way that a machine can't relay, nor can compare and contrast or analyzing but only through resonance with what is wished to be known

    Truly we need a science as sacred as the reality it investigates...

    The subjective perceiver and the object perceived are one!

    I believe we go towards a perspective/reality that is

    "A path beyond technology"
     
  16. sid_16

    sid_16 MDL Giveaway Organiser

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    Yes, you're right and in other words he thinks he is a better judge of physics than professional physicists and cosmologists, and he can apprehend the structure of the universe from his armchair, without doing any empirical study. :p
     
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  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Then it was worth to post. To laugh addresses already beyond mind. (Sorry I had to remove your smilies that I can post own.) :)

    That what could be studied is never 'the truth'. 'Truth' is not dependent of any-thing. Study belongs to object-conscousness. Study is concerning 'progress' of self-awareness an indirection. Wisdom can be pointed out, but cannot be communicated verbally. It is 'communicated' when it acts in 'oneself'. So one is touched or not. So that what could be respected are words that can point to own wisdom. Since each individual has a own mind with own conditions, one can feel touched another not.
    The entire thread reflects that.
    I am grateful to meet cultures which point to wisdom so I am grateful for your post(s). I respect your sources / words since I can feel that they point to wisdom. :)
    But 'my' path is actually no object of one's respect. The path's own goal is to go for it, respected or not. Who is the 'one' who could ask for respect, isn't it the idea of an individual (ego)?
    Nobody 'has' wisdom to be gained, it resides in one's self (already), 'waiting' to be unveiled. I mean when the experience is One life who should have respect of whom? Respect is reasoned in this affinity.:hug2:


    You have defined your objects already in your second sentence. So what can I reply?


    It is up to you. One can say anything what happens now is god's will, or anything is not. But who is 'able' to say this is god's will and that is not? Can you?
    It is god's will because otherwise it wouldn't happen. It is the mind that abuses. 'Killing in the name of god'. But god's will belongs to no-body since god is not objectify-able.
    Supernovas are happening, orbs are moving. Stars are dying and are born, your body will vanish. Whose will is that?
    You are talking about form (appearance). That what really is, is never affected.

    Reality turns to own reality by objectifying. :)
     
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  18. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    @Yen .. I agree entirely with what you have said .. My use of the word respect was not meant as something to acquire anything but rather a ground rule so a rudimentary dialogue could emerge about people's paths and personal experience without the conversation quickly being hijacked for the very same ego based exercise that you may be speaking of .
     
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    "Reality turns to own reality by objectifying."

    Actually, had you studied Hegel you would have known better....
     
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  20. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    Sadly, that's -exactly- what happened. With some people going as far as to insult the spiritual belief systems of others. :(

    No good can come from that.:negative:
     
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