If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    37 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. If no, then how?

    45 vote(s)
    54.9%
  1. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

    Mar 10, 2012
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    I was not aware that we had checked all the planets already.
     
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  2. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

    Mar 10, 2012
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    No. My son is an adult.
     
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  3. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
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    So I assume you have no comment on
     
  4. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    Show me other examples of God playing silly games.

    Lacking any I would have to say it is not in his nature and an invalid interpretation.
     
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  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    God's question: "Where are you?" is no search (lack of information where Adam should be). He asked (Adam) for the sake of self-awareness/introspection. (being and becoming). At the moment where Adam 'became/ is becoming' (a naked ashamed human) he turned/is turning away from God (being)...
     
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  6. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    The expression "God saw…that it was good" is found six times in Genesis one.

    And in each case, He saw that His creation was good AFTER He created it. The question arises, if He is omniscient, shouldn't He see/know it would be good BEFORE creating it?
     
  7. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    #1727 Joe C, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    God will let us do things in order for us to learn by our mistakes. Although he would know we would fall into sin (as in eating that fruit on the tree of knowledge) he still let the serpent coax Eve into taking a bite and giving it to Adan too. Hopefully at the end of time we would have learned by our mistakes.

    God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of that tree, but they thought they would have knowledge like God (serpents idea) so they munched anyway. God then punished Adam and Eve, and booted them out of the garden.

    Think of God as your father, although he loves you and doesn't want to see anything bad happen to you, if you put your hand near a flame he'll tell you not to do that, and if you do it again you might get your hand slapped for your own good but as a child, you can not comprehend that at that moment of time.
     
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  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    One of the greatest obstacles considering 'god' is the time. From being to becoming time also becomes.

    The categorization of the creation story to a week is made for the intellect and allows a game to discuss about the chronology.

    It is remarkable that 'wise' people from different Religions (Christian and Hindu) have pointed to the obstacle: time.

    And there is a remarkable translation which seems to be a grammatical issue at first sight: "before Abraham was born, I am!" But it actually points on the timelessness of being where any-thing becomes. Only then when one makes use of the time one can speak of past and future and can categorize chronologically. God is timeless.
     
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  9. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    If you believe that God created the Earth, Moon, Sun and stars then we must believe that God is also the creator of time as we know it to exist in our world. Their could be other relatives of time that we as humans on Earth can not possibly comprehend
     
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  10. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

    Mar 10, 2012
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    Rubbish...
     
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  11. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    Yes. He would have known before.

    He also would not have had to ask Adam if he had eaten from the tree.
    http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-11.htm
     
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  12. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #1732 Joe C, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    You reply the answer given to you is "rubbish" and then you ask the same question again?
    not logical
    God did not ask for his own sake, but for ours

    God asked; Adam... did you eat this? and Adam said "Eve gave it to me!" and God asked Eve did you eat this? and Eve said "it was the serpents fault!"
    We still do not accept our own responsibility for what we do without trying to blame somebody else first.
    What would we learn if these questions were not asked?
     
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  13. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm, lady. He's not planning anything.
     
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  14. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    If God were omnipotent he would have the power to instill this knowledge at the time of creation making the training program unnecessary.

    If God were omnipotent and omniscient then this punishment was planned when he created them.
    That's called cruelty. Sadistic.

    My father was an asshole so that's workin' for me.

    Not a valid analogy because humans don't have option of instilling the knowledge without the training program.
     
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  15. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    ok.
    lost....in the desert
     
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  16. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    For a nick I prefer "Grumpy Old Fart".
     
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  17. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
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    Now that I am home from work after rushing to catch a bus this morning after I read your post pre-edit...

    Well, in order to show an example of God playing silly little games we must establish a baseline.
    Let's use the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as that baseline. He destroyed those cities basically because of the sexual corruption.

    Today he is playing a silly little game by NOT destroying all the sexual corruption.
    If you want an example of that you need look no further than Pornhub, although you could and explore parts of the dark web.

    I posit that he will soon get weary of this game. ;)

    That is but one of a myriad of examples.
     
  18. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    God instills the knowledge required at the time of creation.
    Did you ever notice an infant shortly after birth instinctively go for his/her mother's breast ?
    He does this in the animal kingdom as well.

    As cruel and sadistic as your giving your son his first scolding and spanking when he first did something you disliked ?
    Was that not premeditated ?

    Mine too, and YES I agree God IS a bastard. I have said that for nearly 50 years now.


    Depends on what knowledge you are referring to. Lots of things are instinctual, where does that training come from ?

    Or simply, why would God instill the knowledge of how to build a nuclear reactor in everyone knowing what happened with Cain and Able ? THAT is where "free will" comes into play big time.
     
  19. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    And Adult Men still do it to this day. :D

    (Do I take out my boobs or make Him a sandwich? :g: )

    All kidding aside, GOD is the Ultimate Father. And yes, We all have our battles with our fathers, whether they be earthly or otherwise. If you feel that GOD wasn't watching over you enough, just think of where you were then and where you are now. How much have you learned? And can you honestly say that you would have learned whatever life lessons you needed to learn as well as you have, had GOD interfered?

    The lessons that I've learned have been burned into my very core. And they've been some pretty harsh lessons.
    But I survived. And I'm a better person for it.

    Neither GOD nor Christ needs my defense in this world; The choice is entirely yours. And that says something. Or at least, it should get you thinking.
     
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  20. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    #1740 PCBONEZ, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
    The biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah is exactly that. A story. A fable.
    It falsely assigns the cause of a real world event to a mythical God to falsely validate the existence of said God to a simple minded people who lacked the ability to understand the real world cause behind the real world event.
    Archaeology has found the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah and Geology has explained the event.
    https://www.biblearchaeology.org/po...-of-the-Sin-Cities-of-Sodom-and-Gomorrah.aspx
    It had nothing to do with sex.
    -
    Even if a God were involved, mass murder is hardly a good natured light hearted "silly game" (as one would play with children) which is what I challenged you to find to prove your claim that God has such a nature.
    This attempt at that was a fail.

    No God involved in the first or second example. Thus no evidence of God playing games.
    Not even evidence of a God's existence there.
    .
    Curious how someone that (apparently) claims to be religious knows porn site names off the top of their head. ??
    .

    ~~
    I suppose you also believe God caused the Loma Prieta earthquake because of all the gays in San Fransisco?
    Alternately, that could be an example where where God IS destroying sexual corruption in modern times.
    I was in that sucker. I'm not gay. And I would hardly have called it a silly game.
    .
     
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