If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    35 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. If no, then how?

    42 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    Actually it's linked by bloodline, you can't just declare yourself King. Pretty much like you can't declare yourself president, unless you're living in South America and have many people with guns to support you. :D You also will inevitably die, you don't have a choice in the matter. It's the way the universe works, energy cycles.
    Free will doesn't exist in this universe in its current configuration irrelevant of the existence of God.
     
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  2. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    @ R29k :thinking:
     
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  3. RanCorX2

    RanCorX2 MDL Addicted

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    #1923 RanCorX2, Oct 12, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    good, evil, choice, will are all creations of our own, not some "god(s)".

    we learned that good = bettering ourselves, doing things that benefit ourselves and others, and evil is doing terrible things, to ourselves and others.

    will is just something we gave meaning to.

    "i can go outside for a run, because i can" or "i can strip naked and run down the road because i can" (though you would get in trouble for that).

    choice = either do one thing or do another or both or neither, because we decided we can and that is also will. will, can, can't, won't etc.

    i don't think a "god(s)" created all, because why hasn't "it/they" made itself known to us? or stopped us from doing certain things or prevented things like world wars etc?

    Usually if you create something, you don't trash it, leave it to fall apart. You look after it, protect it, repair it etc.

    The only other explanation would be earth is a giant experiment and has been under observation for billions of years, but that just sounds stupid.

    The only reason all the cultures have different ideas of "god(s)" is because that's what they have believed thoughout the time that have existed.

    as for the main op topic;

    haven't humans always regarded "god(s)" as all knowing with knowledge of everything? if so, "it/they" obviously have no interest in what we do or "it/they" would've intervened a long time ago. (like what some religions report like greek myth, but since then nothing)
     
  4. LiteOS

    LiteOS Windowizer

    Mar 7, 2014
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    Reality is a simulation of free will, so god can experience his infinity as surprise and without his knowledge
    Ego and what not, exist only in this Reality
     
  5. RanCorX2

    RanCorX2 MDL Addicted

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    i did wonder at some point that could the reason there's so many cultures / types of humans on this planet be because each culture started on it's own planet but they were all made lifeless by war, disaster or something, and every last human was brought to this planet by "something" which obviously didn't think, would we all get on togehter?

    just a thought.

    but it's most likely just evolution and people looking to make meaning out of life.
     
  6. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

    Feb 25, 2010
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    choice is yours, if god intervened every time we screwed up you would have no choice , if our choice is to start a war that was our choice ! if you believe we evolved from apes then why are there still apes , why did one creature gain intelligence and continue to evolve into man, I cant prove god is real any more then you can prove he doesn't exist .
     
  7. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    It's not a belief, it's a fact.

    Why are there still fish-like creatures with legs when they also evolved to become land creatures? Because that's what happened and because nowhere does evolution require all previous steps to go extinct. Why would they? They were the best adapted creatures after all and their environment didn't go away, so why would they go away?

    You cannot prove non-existence anyway, by definition, so you cannot fail at it. You CAN, however, prove existence, so you can also fail at it. It's such a weak argument.

    Prove there isn't a pink unicorn behind your back when you're not looking. Prove there isn't a teapot circling Saturn. It's stupid reasoning.
     
  8. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

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    pink unicorn's and teacup's is reaching a bit but calling a person stupid because they have different beliefs then you ?
     
  9. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @TCM: So who created Evolution?
     
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  10. TCM

    TCM MDL Addicted

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    I called no one stupid. I called the reasoning stupid. You are free to not reason in a stupid way.

    It's a consequence of chance, chemistry, and physics. The question of "who?" is pointless to begin with, because if everything needs a creator, who created the creator? Why must there be one?

     
  11. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    :g: we seem to have returned to the eternal question about the chicken or the egg with your post.
     
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  12. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    Not really.... God created a chicken and that chicken laid the egg. It's only a problem if you have faith in something stupid like evolution
     
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  13. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    now, Joe, dont call Darwin stupid..:D
     
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  14. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    yep I agree :thinking:
     
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  15. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    Prove there IS a pink unicorn behind your back when you're not looking.

    When there is no observation you cannot make a statement about existence / nonexistence.
    There is neither existence nor nonexistence of the pink unicorn until you turn around.

    It's all about dualism. There can't be a meaning of existence without assigning a meaning to nonexistence, hence both share the same reality. Speaking of 'proof' or what is real of one of it alone makes no sense.


    Why not: "God created an egg and from that egg hatched the chicken?"
    Evolution is not stupid. Stupid is to try to resolve an issue there where it doesn't work anymore.

    God --->time--->chicken or egg.
     
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  16. Are you really sure about that? :eek:
    Example: Evolution from Win7 to Win10 :)
    God --->time--->7xor10 :p
     
  17. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    An egg can be created just as a chicken is, but the egg needs warmth from the chicken to hatch the egg. A hen chick alone can not fertilize itself, without a rooster present. So there must have been: a rooster to fertilize the hen, and then the fertilized egg to produce a chick.
    Obviously it was a Rooster that came first
     
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  18. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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  19. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #1940 Joe C, Oct 15, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
    Could have been.... I'm an old fart but was not there when that could have happened.
    Chickens are believed to be morphed from dino's as those of the evolution faith believe. So it comes down to if the egg or the dino came first
     
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