Is Reality an Illusion ?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by R29k, Feb 12, 2016.

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Is Reality an Illusion ?

  1. Yes

    26 vote(s)
    47.3%
  2. No

    19 vote(s)
    34.5%
  3. Don't Know

    10 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    The Pink Panther?
     
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Oych, some people are alive but brain-dead, for instance...

    Some people are alive and have some capabilities but are not exactly aware of their capacities, are easily (mis)lead into doing things directly against their own innermost interests...

    And so on and on and on...
     
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  3. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    @gorski
    If the "I" is localized and grounded in the brain, why does this happen?
    Shouldn't all memories die with the brain? Unless you can disprove all these kids, would be interesting how ?
    Look at the akashic record, it's interesting !
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Answer my points first, please... ;)
     
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  5. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    What point, can you even define brain dead ? Consciousness is the whole, you are asking why a specific purpose isn't achieved. You are not cutting off the hand and asking why the finger doesn't move, you are cutting off the finger and asking why the hand is there?!
     
  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Of course one can, especially nowadays - we do have the tools and we have learnt a great deal in the last few decades, so yes... My father, for instance, after a car accident and massive brain and other injuries had to have his life support switched off. He was alive, yes - but there was nothing left to hope for... :(

    Moreover, those who are deemed "living", by those minimal standards :D - in massive numbers - are utterly irrational and choose things which are even self-destructive, let alone completely the opposite of their own interests and so on. Are they "conscious"?!? How do we define that?

    I mean, look at you, the stuff you are quoting as "evidence"... :D :D :D Reincarnation and whatnot... :p :p :p
     
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  7. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    Yes, we have developed powerful tools and techniques to mend and understand the brain. Yet we still know so little.
    It seems the more we understand and learn, the more arrogant we become. That is a lesson in humility (If we're fortunate enough to realize it.)

    First, we have to figure out how to define human "consciousness". Animals are conscious; with the exception of higher life forms (e.g. dogs, cats, etc.)
    animals operate on a "primal" plane. (The need to live, eat, and reproduce)

    All animals retain that primal mindset. A sometimes pesky trait among humans. :p

    I was a little surprised myself as R29k purported himself to be an Athiest. Then, there was the indirect mention of the Kabbalah (Jewish Mysticism) :)

    And pleasantly surprised, I might add. One must always keep an open mind. (It all comes back to knowledge breeding arrogance, which is eventually distilled down to humility and a genuine desire to understand and learn.)
     
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  8. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    Future and past?

    Evaluate this for yourself, do not 'believe' me.
    There is never a time when your life is not "this moment."! You cannot be in the past nor in the future.

    When you're saying: "I have done that yesterday." You reactivate a memory trace and you are doing that now.
    When you are saying : "I'll do that tomorrow." You won't do anything unless you are changing this statement and start to do it now. You have to wait until the imaginary future becomes present!

    Past and future obviously have no reality of their own.

    Consciousness as whole does not follow. It is. (Or it is not)

    "I have lost my consciousness."
    This would be an absurd statement per se. What is I that had lost what?

    Or: "Determine your own death."
    Are you and your own 2 different entities? What about 'you' then?

    Either you are or you are not, but it cannot change. When others notice that your appearance is no more then you are 'dead' from their perspective.
    Can you remember a time without consciousness?

    The present moment is real and is timeless per se. It can be recognized as being. I am. Since a process of 'disappearing or losing' would need time it cannot be lost. What can be lost are illusionary derivations of it.
    The intellectual approach of death as end of all illusions does not bring salvation, though.

    People who encountered extraordinary or life-threatening situations do report 'amazing' things....(also other people who are practising other focusing techniques.)
    In fact they were enforced to focus on the present in a way they never did before. They remained as present consciousness from where any-thing becomes and recognized themselves as not different to that timeless consciousness.

    As retrospective then (they could tell about since life functions has not stopped) it appeared as a serial of events with extended duration. "I saw my entire life passing by" Einsteins relative of time.

    I am talking of a human and natural 'ability'. Nothing mystical.
    I am talking of a natural direction of human time which will force more and more humans to do that change in lifetime already to awake.
    Until then the pressure on humans is rising until they give up their unnatural and illusionary way of life. It appears as mental unrest, self-confinement, destructive behaviour, Trump. lol.

    Humans will create their own life threatening situations. Sooner or later then they are forced to hold on and they will recognize what others have recognized already. A new consciousness by precise focus on the Now!
    To recognize future as illusion is first, then you get insight that there is no time to wait for it.

    We get the insight now and don't have to wait for such threatening situations to change us.


    Being aware of capacities means being aware of the now. A future that is relying and depending on the past while ignoring the now brings no Novum and ignores the mentioned capacities. Many famous people who have made extraordinary achievements for humankind said that they have got it in a very present moment and not by thinking of past and future.


    Nobody should believe what I say. Evaluate it if you want. Have a look at the news what's all happening and how humans deal with each others. Have a look at the mainstream and some remarkable individuals. What can be the difference?
    And why is there no real mental progress and human cruelties are repeating in cycles, yes even getting worse.

    And have a look into yourself; an introspection. How is your relationship to the now? Are you aware of it? Or are you busy with other things for instance relying on the future which is thought? :)
     
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  9. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Yen: In this case, you must 'choose' your own destiny and through a conscious act of self will, perform the task. :)
     
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  10. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yen, make your mind up, man: it does or it does not.

    Now, be careful - you might shoot yourself in the foot... :D
     
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  11. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    Been there...done that. :D
     
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  12. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #353 R29k, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    (OP)
    :laie: I'm not atheist, I'm agnostic!
    As I said before, if you don't take cognisance of the unknown then you're being seriously deluded in your thought process! I want to know the truth!

    And this applies to @gorski
    Unknowns in the equation my good sir. When are you going to recognize them?

     
  13. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Me too. I am agnostic and looking forward the universal truth. :cool:

    Sadly I'm more convinced, day by day, this is a very hard task and maybe unachievable.
     
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Agnostics are not meddling in questions that are unanswerable - those are Q's of belief, so I think you are not yet agnostic my good R2D2... :D
     
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  15. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Ok you agnostic rule setter you, fact is everyone is agnostic, they are just too deluded to realize it ! :p
     
  16. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #357 Joe C, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    I don't believe that
    :biggrin5:
     
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  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    :)

    When posting the way like I do I always take the risk to shoot myself in my foot.
    The last posts I did contain rational thoughts and conclusions but also own interpretations which are interpreted different by the readers. Talking about the present can only happen as retrospective.
    The rational part is that when one wants to know something about 'extraordinary' life situations or life threatening situations or even 'death' to have a look there where is experience. Talking to such people, reading their reports.
    It is also rational to do it since it is a question of time until you are encountering your own.


    Based on the gained knowledge then one can think about if there is something to evaluate on ones own. People never should believe something about it. Active evaluation.
    For instance when one has intellectually grasped that life happens now and consists only of one moment, this moment, then it makes sense to make efforts to devote attention to it.
    You will recognize that this is nothing new, people are doing and have done this already. Techniques are known as meditation.

    People know it already. Some more some less. Whenever you take the opportunity to be very aware of the now there is a taste of it.
    Typical catalytic converters are: Beautifulness, for instance a place on holidays and calm intense awareness. Birth of own child, a sudden break of thoughts.
    But also stress, sudden danger, sudden loss....
    The process of discursive thinking holds on; intensive awareness and presence are in the foreground.

    One knows it when it is happening. My words here are nothing compared to it. They are suffering from a retrospective distortion so to say.

    Or..people who have faced death.......
    People frequently answer the question :"What has changed?" with:" I enjoy now every moment of my life as the only real moment" Why? And why has there be such an event before? Isn't there a way of own active focus without them?

    Either one actively 'researches'...or does nothing and waits.....some went on dark paths. Mortification for instance.

    To your reply:
    It does or it does not. (I am trying to miss my foot while shooting, lol)

    It depends on the own perspective, from Reality they are 2 sides of the same medal.
    It does not change, though.

    Own consciousness / unconsciousness relies on duality. 'The instance' from where both emerge includes and transcends both, the dualism does not exist there.

    The question:" Are you at deep-sleep?" can illustrate that.
    There was unconsciousness anyway you woke up next day.

    The 'highest' instance is 'there' 'where' is no dualism at all. And that does not change. It is.
    And from there any-thing becomes. All the dualisms. Unconsciousness and consciousness. Being or absence of it. The mind is free and can create any dualisms.
    But without that 'instance' I wouldn't be here and are writing this post. :)

    I guess I hit my foot anyway, lol I objectified what cannot....
     
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  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    So, that's a yes or a no? :p
     
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  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    You might ask Schrödinger's cat. :p

    It does not only show up a 'paradox' or the possibility of 2 opposed states at once.....
    It appeals to another way of perception. From 1. discursive to 2. direct perception.

    1. Methodological progressive. From concept/idea to concept/idea. Requires the idea of progressive time.
    2. transcending and including. 'As it is'. 'Being'. 'Requires' the timeless moment.
     
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