Medical Marijuana - Compassion, Decriminalization, Human rights...

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by timesurfer, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. Puffingmad

    Puffingmad MDL Addicted

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    #41 Puffingmad, Dec 1, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
    Having grown up in UK ware marijuana is illegal and then lived in Holland for a few years as well ware it is decriminalised I see also the social effect that prosecuting and categorising ppl who use marijuana is having on the population

    As a youngster in the UK the thought of trying marijuana was vary appealing as part of growing up is to rebel against the system that says you cant do something.
    As soon as you start you are suddenly outside of excepted society and considered to be of the criminal type simply because you enjoyed a smoke, you feel that the system and the police are against you so this generates discontent for the authority and system you live.
    Also because of its status the ppl you can obtain it from (because you are young and ppl don't want to take the risk of selling to a minor) are the criminals and the junkies this pulls you more into the wrong crowds exposing you to much worse substances and situations.

    In the years i spent in Holland ware you can buy from coffee shops in every town without any risk of prosecution or trouble I noticed that to the youngsters it wasn't quite so appealing because its not illegal and that most of the youth didn't have such a big chip on there shoulders regarding the system and authority on this matter.
    Also in Holland the youngsters got there friends or big brothers to goto coffee shops for them so they are not forced to deal with junkies and criminals and don't feel like they are outside of society.

    Isn't it better to embrace marijuana so that when ppl do abuse it or get into trouble they feel that there is support and help when needed instead of feeling alone and persicuted
     
  2. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
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    hmpf, puffingmad..
    dutch coffeeshops are no paradise,,
    your own experience is no yardstick, imho..
    it is one thing to look at weed where it is illegal..
    but if you live in holland like i do. with a coffeeshop next
    door, there comes a time when you get fed up with
    north africans pissing on your doorstep, believe me..
     
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  3. Puffingmad

    Puffingmad MDL Addicted

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    #43 Puffingmad, Dec 2, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
    After the 7 years I lived there I can totally understand ware you are coming from and am not saying that the Dutch system is perfect just trying to point out the difference in social impact that different systems cause.

    My main point is decriminalise it, tax so it contributes to the country and most of all stop persecuting ppl who's only crime is to smoke weed

    I am sure as well if it was pub next door the problems would be the same if not worse
     
  4. LatinMcG

    LatinMcG Bios Borker

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    #44 LatinMcG, Dec 2, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
    put electric wires with a camera.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8fwtkC5UJU
    he will have to go back in and smoke twice as much now hehehe... twitchy!
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Puffingmad, thanks for posting your personal experiences you have made in the UK and in Holland.
    I have been to Amsterdam many times. And my first time I tried weed there, because I had too much worries concerning 'street quality' from a country where it is forbidden. And I didn't want to get the risk to get busted.

    I also watched the changing laws in Europe since 1990.
    Whereas Holland and Switzerland and Spain are liberal, UK and Germany are not.
    In Germany it even depends on where you actually live. The northern federal states (Bundesländer) are far more liberal than the Southern. And from 1990 to now generally the laws have been liberalised.
    The situation in Amsterdam is different. It had been restricted. There has been a lot of weed-tourism.

    So both ways have changed since they were not ideal.
    I came to the conclusion as I have posted, the best way IMHO is to legalize cultivation of cannabis. There should be no public places where it is sold. (Drug-tourism).

    In the 90s almost nobody in Germany dared to smoke a joint at a public place. And potheads were seen as junkies.
    But nobody actually cared about, because to be 'special' meant to have had also a special way of life....(rebellious)
    Nowadays its quite established to smoke weed. The image of potheads has changed, they are not seen as junkies anymore.
    When busted by a cop you get still trouble, but with just a joint they do not punish you anymore, but you get a record.
    At private parties and open air concerts you smell weed quite frequently.

    Anyway I had to notice four years ago on a open air concert some (actually young people) smelled weed and got the police to betray other fans. That is quite ego since there is no real sense to do so.
     
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  6. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    The state of Colorado in the U.S. will be a good case in study .. As they move from medical use business model to a recreational legal status. Colorado has quite a conservative leaning population so cannabis has quite a opposition but still passed.. We will have to see .. I agree totally, Yen, with home garden status with no commercial enterprise .. There is no healing medicine there otherwise, just relief of some symtoms
     
  7. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    well, nice to read what others think here..

    nice to see how yen found out about the weisswurst equator,
    almost like two different countries..

    as for me, i personally detest the stuff.. i like the smell,
    but it dumbs the brain.. but then there are folks who detest
    beer too..

    so if someone feels the urge, i guess they have my blessing..
    whether it is for medicinal reasons, or recreation..

    as for allowing cultivation, and no public selling, i must
    heartily disagree.. cultivation in colder climates is very
    much in the criminal sphere, people tap electricity, megawatts,
    illegally, to generate the heat and the light that is needed..
    it is an industrial, criminal thing..

    as for selling the stuff, on a small scale it is quite harmless..
    but when a person has got kilo`s to sell, you can bet your boots
    that he is in the crime scene too, with all that comes with it..

    for me, the essential thing is hypocrite governments..
    they want to make money by taxing your cancer generating cigarettes.
    they want to make money by taxing your alcohol, that gives you liver cirrhosis.
    they stop short of taxing your weed, that gives you none of these things..
    creating a whole crime scene in the process..

    time they grew up. imho..
     
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  8. keyboard

    keyboard MDL Novice

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    Times are changing hopefully, Google Phoenix Tears and The Rick Simpson Story (run from the cure).

    There have been tons of money made from the war on drugs and big pharma, if people worldwide knew they could grow a plant in their back yard take the oil from it and cure them-self instead of going to the doctors and paying thousands of dollars for pills and treatment guess what? Rick Simson has a very interesting story to tell thats worth the time to listen and watch. Enjoy!
     
  9. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

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    Been there done that, testimonials don't count in medicine.
    That seems as likely as an oil change that can repair any damage on a car including paint and tire damage
     
  10. keyboard

    keyboard MDL Novice

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    Thats funny, test it first if you have any skin cancer put a dab on wait 5 days then come back and report. :D
     
  11. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    Really? You made my day, pal. Big Pharma is all about testmonials, my friend. Big Pharma wants you sick to spend your money on their poison, so they can go to Bora-Bora, while you puke your guts out from their beloved child: chemicals sold as "remedies".

    Bro', next time your HDL is as low as can be and the LDL are through the roof, don't eat hemp oil and any kind of that matter (fish, flax) but drink a ton of pills "that reduce cholesterol" aka the statines, but don't be surprised by the heart-attack that's waiting for you around the corner.

    Your vocalization against real medicine vs chemicals makes me think that you're in the pharma business or make money out of it.

    P.S. Chillax and don't forget: puff, puff - pass. :schmorch:
     
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  12. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #52 redroad, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    I just thought this video fit amongst all the bits for a laugh:sun::roflmao:

     
  13. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

    Apr 23, 2012
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    Do I need to have cancer or will any ol rash do ? Regardless if you want to convince the world you need a real study with placebo and control groups etc in fact id argue if you know that this is real and you choose to skip the testing knowing full well that this makes your cancer cure indistinguishable from one that doesn't work that's being downright evil.
    That's not even addressing the possibility of negative effects of the treatment and adverse reactions with other treatments.

    No it is evidence based medicine, Clinical Trial ? Placebo ? Control Group ? ring a bell. Its your side that have virtually no regulation.
    Then its odd that the past century has seen some of the greatest advances in public health like vaccination water fluoridation etc which lead to the doubling of the human life expediency and a massive reduction in infant mortality.
    Practically everything and earth and in the universe is made of chemicals even your cannabis

    What if anything has this got to do with the cancer cure claims ? Nobody is denying the benefit of fish in a persons diet
    Yes and remember kids "im" the paranoid one here :rolleyes: The only reason cannabis has any medical use is because of the big pharma you lothe
     
  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    I have some arguments which are diametrically opposite. (Concerning cultivation).
    To steal electricity is always a criminal offence. No matter if used to power sodium vapor lamps or not.
    If cultivation is completely allowed then all supplies that are needed for indoor home grow are allowed as well. The one who grows it at home has far less costs for own cannabis than the one has if one would buy it elsewhere. Of course one can sell some stuff to good friends, not everybody needs to grow it on their own.

    The need to steel / tap energy, why is that?
    It’s only to make profit and profit can only be made when sold commercially!!! To me it is an criminal offence when one steels for it.

    And some are worried to get into focus when having a high electricity bill.

    There is a story. Police helicopters flew over rooftops at wintertime when there was a slight snow.
    At some roofs there was no snow at all. Those houses went into focus for potential cannabis cultivation.
    Why? Sodium vapor lamps-àheat--àbad isolation of rooftops-àno snow.

    And there would be no mass production since it would be only for personal and friend use.
    To cultivate own and to remain silent and to sell it to friends to get back own costs is the way that works.
    No profit, no public business. It is a favor for friends without to ever think about any profit.
    Under these circumstances a criminal sphere never can develop.


    You seem not to know that Cannabis Sativa and Ginkgo Biloba are the plants which are best scientifically documented!
    The former has purely political issues, the latter is a successful remedy.
    As one of the researchers of Ginkgo, I know why Cannabis Sativa has issues and Ginkgo has not, it could be as successful as Gingko but it's unwanted for political reasons primarily.
    It seems that you never have been to a scientific (phyto) library to get literature. IMHO your opinions are mostly politically biased and not based on scientific facts. Such people are sitting in governments as well.

    Generally I have to say that some posts, also some of Socrates are generalizing and stigmatizing.
    They are not very researched and hence not well differentiated but biased.
    I wonder what you’d (socrate) say to ‘Big Pharmacy’ if you need to have a surgery and you must not use anesthetics.
    There are bad Pharmacy boys for sure, but to generalize reminds me of yellow press methods.
    Both have their place, synthetic drugs and herbals. Ethic and moral belongs always to people, but not to a branch itself.
     
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  15. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

    Apr 23, 2012
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    Great show me the documentation for its use as a cancer cure, For what kinds of cancer its useful for and how long it can prolong the life of the patient.
    That's funny considering the only scientific sources quoted in this thread were by me.
     
  16. keyboard

    keyboard MDL Novice

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    Rick Simpson has now let the Genie out of the bottle concerning marijuana (bud) oil with its healing effects...big pharma can't shut Rick up and put the Genie back in the bottle as hes used third party media and Talk Radio Shows to get the news out and people are responding world wide. I look forward for people in America with health issues to take advantage of the two states where recreational marijuana was passed take the 90 day treatment with the oil legally and hopefully regain their health without having to break laws.

    btw...States where medical marijuana is passed only cooking and smoking marijuana is permitted and the min you light a joint anything it has that can effect a cure for cancer gos up in smoke.
     
  17. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

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    Anyone can claim anything the only way to prove the treatment isn't snake oil it to do a clinical trial, If he doesn't fund one I have to suspect its for the same reason that physics wont take the jref challenge.
    And his cure is only available to the gullible, If what he is saying is true he has millions of lives to save put up or shut up

    And if this cure dosnt work put their health in danger by doing nothing, With cancer that's a disaster all the more case for him to prove his claims or shut up.
     
  18. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #58 redroad, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
    Potential energy in the broadest sense can not be completely measured by current science and so the healing effects as a part of potential energy of a medicine are under reported because there is no metric to measure it completely .. So for me the tests being made on the healing potential of a medicine can at best be a rudimentary conclusion and not one I would give much credence to. Unless we consider things like where a medicine is grown, how it was grown, and by who, we are leaving out a large part of that measure .. Not to mention how it is being administered and by who as well as the purity of intention of all of those individuals involved .. When we can measure these things we will be only at the threshold of a basic understanding of what is a healing medicine and why it has healing potential..
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    Oh well I do not need to convince, if you are interested you have to make the efforts to get the literature and make your own opinion.
    Yes you have posted scientific sources, that is not my criticism but considering the great variety available you are partial.

    In a situation of to have cancer in reality everybody is confronted with which way of therapy to go. I know that from a good friend. Actually your own idea of cancer is important and whom you trust. And when trusted (whomsoever) the one has the right to go that way and if it should be cannabis as additional medicine.

    There is actually no cancer cure at all. All therapies are based on 'to remove' or inhibition. Surgery or chemotherapy or radiotherapy. Actually crude methods to try to 'heal'. Reminds me of mercury that had been prescribed to cure obstipation due to its high density, lol.

    There are cases at which cancer suddenly disappeared. No orthodox medical practitioner could explain why....
    The understanding of cancer is not developed.
    It depends on your own idea of cancer if cannabis might heal it. It is hard to prove that one particular measure is responsible for a cure after it has worked.
    It is hard to prove it when not knowing why one gets cancer and another not. It is hard to prove it at other drugs so it is hard at cannabis as well.


    Pure facts are that cannabis suppresses the side effects of chemotherapy and vomiting and one doesn't need that much pain killers. It reliefs the symptoms in the end state and makes a more pleasant life in the last days....
    Would you let them forbid the use of it if you are in such a situation and you experience relief?

    The question is why one gets cancer at all. And why it is a widespread disease especially in a high tech consume orientated society. To me it is a sick ego that simply has become manifest.
    There are studies about the immune system and stress factors and what happens to it when stress prevails and we know cannabis has an effect on the CNS to suppress stress and the biochemical chain which is started.

    Surgery or chemotherapy or radiotherapy. They are here to have an influence on the balance cancer cells / healthy cells.
    But the mechanism that lets cancer cells disappear completely and keeps them vanished forever is quite unknown.

    Actually everybody has mutated cells (cancer) which are usually detected and eliminated. A calm mind might be a good condition to remain in a healthy balance. Stress benefits survival of undetected mutated cells.
     
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  20. keyboard

    keyboard MDL Novice

    May 1, 2010
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    Go to his site read watch the videos follow the links then decide it seems you don't believe anything can help other than big pharma.

    btw...Before I forget big pharma is selling the very same oil for cancer treatment in order to get it you have to take both chemotherapy and the oil at the same time...I wonder why?... now ant that something...one heals and one kills. :D