Medical Marijuana - Compassion, Decriminalization, Human rights...

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by timesurfer, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

    Apr 23, 2012
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    Go to answers in genesis and enjoy your new found beliefs on the age of the universe and earth. Anyone can make a video and claim anything they want. Proving it is another matter entirely
    Really where ?
     
  2. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #62 redroad, Dec 5, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  3. keyboard

    keyboard MDL Novice

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    I was listening to a talk show if I come across facts from big pharma I will post in the meantime heres to your health and have a good day Ray. :D
     
  4. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @RaymondTH: How about chewing on Willow bark for a headache? Is that as unlikely?

    Mother Natures' Chem Lab is better than -any- lab that humans can build.

    And it's free...if you know where to look. (And if Mankind doesn't destroy it first.)

    :Miki
     
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  5. Puffingmad

    Puffingmad MDL Addicted

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    #65 Puffingmad, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    I have to say I agree completely with you Yen as ‘Big Pharmacy’ Has personally helped me with a illness that could off taken 20 years of my life
    In a country ware at that time I had no cover for medical treatment and no money to pay for the 6 months of Expensive treatment
    For me
    ‘Big Pharmacy’ gave me back that 20years
     
  6. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #66 redroad, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    No matter where you stand on this issue things are moving.. The latest news from Washington state here in the U.S. Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/legalizing-marijuana-washington-state_n_2249238.html

    Let me say that I am for real medicine and opposed to using any medicine to escape from getting to know ones self but I do not judge those who are trying to escape. I cannot abide their justifications is all I am saying .. My personal experience has taught me that such justification only prolongs suffering and obstructs true healing ..To misuse the gifts of our earth mother only bestows lingering sadness on all.
     
  7. S_A_S

    S_A_S MDL Member

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    I know one thing, as a neighbor of the Netherlands, there has always been a tolerance policy as far that i can remeber. But under pressure from the US (among others), that "freedom" in recent years become increasingly limited and this has led to a ban in most EU countries. And now, the hypocrites are on the way to legalize it in that same US.

    I dont get it.
     
  8. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

    Apr 23, 2012
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    no but chewing on Willow bark to cure any illness affecting any organ does
     
  9. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

    Jan 25, 2012
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    No sh!t! How about the use of cannabis sativa/indica all over the world for the last 7000 years in all civilizations: Sumerian, Egyptian, Toltec, Olmec, Inca, Tracian, Greek, Romans a.s.o.

    My friend, get a nice cold shower to wake up! You're heavily ASLEEP. ;)

    Clinical trails? :D Give me a break. We all know that big pharma doesn't do any REAL clinical trials, just writes a paper and calls it clinical trial. ;)

    Do you even know anything about the placebo effect?
     
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  10. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

    Apr 23, 2012
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    Ah the appeal to tradition logical fallacy, I wonder if you will take up bloodletting, human sacrifice or slavery.
    We all know they do, Another logical fallacy.
    Yes which is why testimonials are worthless in medicine
     
  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

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    #71 Yen, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    Are you posting that because your ego just wants to BE right, or to inform us that we might be wrong?

    The latter can't be true since I DO all the pre-clinical research and I am informed about every step of the clinical trials.
    (Before 2002 synthetic drugs, that what you call: 'chemicals' and after 2002 till today herbals)

    So the only point can be a difference in the meaning of the term REAL clinical trial. We can discuss about REAL clinical trials though. As you know me I have a very open mind and my understandings of mind / health and to heal are quite 'unorthodox' and we mostly agree concerning spiritual matters...:);)



    To me placebo effect is a prove that humans are healing themselves and there are actually no objects apart from humans who can heal. Healing takes already effect and 'later' the mind develops terms and determines theories about an explanation, means relates later the healing process to an object.

    The mind works only in the world of objects and in time. The minds doesn't work where healing really happens, and that can be only at present.

    The western models of medicine and healing are far different to the models of e.g. Ayurveda, Chinese traditional medicine, Tibetan traditional medicine.
    Whereas western medicine is superior in high tech surgery and medicine technology and diagnostics, the understanding of healing is very very poor and object related.

    There must be a 'time' when one becomes sick, when is it? When does the condition change from well to ill?
    The western medicine says when it can be objectified, diagnosed.
    Others say if then ever now.

    This explains it very well what I mean. The conflict of now, the present where healing can happen at all and the world of measurement, pure objectified, determinated and hence related to time.

    So to explain healing we have a world of rules, theories (mind) which try to explain a phenomenon: healing... what actually happens ever now, means in a completely different 'world'.

    To encounter issues is ever preprogrammed, the eastern medicine (old cultures as well) has built a bridge to both worlds already, whereas the westerns stay partial, only objectified and develop only one 'world' of medicine.

    No matter what terms a mind chooses there will be ever something incomplete. 'Energy' is frequently used to explain the unexplainable.

    Here I can unite several topics, '2012 End of the world or not?? 'global warming', 'Cogito ergo sum'....
    I can use several phenomena: Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, Descartes error, Newton and the doom of the world of determination, the doom of subject object dualism and so on....
    The issue is that we are partial, incomplete. We live in the world of objects and measurements and we let waste away the 'other world'.

    The other world which is consciousness, which is you, which is the condition for a creation of a objectified world. The suchness, the 'room'. The presence. The time where things happen. The time where healing happens.

    The issue related to this topic can have this appearance:

    Traditional medicine: Cannabis can heal and when it does then it does it now. Just devote your-SELF to it.

    Western medicine: Prove it!
    We rather detect the place of illness and later then we 'remove' the sickness with our removing agents.
    It happened in many clinical trials already so it will for you again...
     
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  12. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

    Feb 25, 2010
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    live long and prosper-do what you love and love what you do, I smoke (not cigarettes) drink (not water) have sex not as often as I would like lol :(
    so I guess the question is does grass hurt you, I don't know! im 71 I know it makes me feel good, does the paper you roll it in hurt you more then the weed don't know!
    I didn't expect to live this long (it dam sure wasn't my fault) but looking around at friends who have been smoking for a long while I don't see anything wrong with them caused by the weed and that's all the info I need, I remember inhailing carbona cleaning fluid when I was a kid in the Bronx and seeing a friend go into a seizure and went brain dead from it needless to say I didn't do that again :eek: so in the end look around be carful and just enjoy life, and don't buy cheap toilet paper :rolleyes:
     
  13. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    :worthy:...my respect. And thanks for the tip. :biggrin: you are cool...:cool:
     
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  14. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    #74 redroad, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    Finally someone older than me:worthy:here at MDL .. +2 on the TP
     
  15. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

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    #75 RaymondTH, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
    There is no such thing as western medicine people in china don't go to a shamen if they are in a car crash they go to a hospital. So called traditional medicine has been confined to the dust bin of history aswell as bloodletting human sacrifice prayer therapy etc. There is no such thing as "Western medicine" there is Evidence Based Medicine and its this medicine that eradicated smallpox an illness which killed more people than all the wars in human history. It is this medicine that doubled human life expediency in the 20th century. Its practiced in every developed country on earth.
    We rather have medicine that has been proven to work, Not based on tribal superstitions of spirits and daemons that belong in the history books.

    Im sorry we live in a boring universe that follows natural laws and doesn't care about our survival, But its the demonstrable truth the shaman didn't eradicate smallpox the doctor did.
     
  16. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    @RaymondTh Since you have asked so many questions let me ask you one .. Why is it my people lived to be 150 years old just 4 or 5 hundred years ago .. You would suggest we should put a lot of faith in modern medicine because it is based in research .. There are other ways besides this that are equally valid and have a history that is steeped in a tradition that has a lot more credibility than modern medicine does .. Keep in mind that the consequence for telling a lie then was to be ostracized from the tribe which was a death sentence for most. There is no such consequence for misleading or obscuring the truth about a medicine today .. I invite you to learn more about what you speak of before you make such sweeping generalities .. It makes it hard to see who you really are
     
  17. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    :eek:Really, provide evidence. My understanding is the opposite, in the past susceptibility to disease and very little
    medicine reduced life spans. Not to mention idiotic practices like drilling holes in peoples heads to release trapped spirits when they got headaches.
    Would be interested in seeing where you got this info from, must be the Bible?!
     
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  18. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    Ours is a oral tradition so for you I guess it is unprovable for me I know those who spoke those words sat at those council fires in front of the entire universe with a devotion to the truth that you may not understand yet it is true .. The same advise I gave RAY applies to you also .. I invite you to learn more about what you speak of before you make such sweeping generalities .. It makes it hard to see who you really are
     
  19. RaymondTH

    RaymondTH MDL Member

    Apr 23, 2012
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    [citation needed]

    Faith is belief without evidence in this case there is shedloads of evidence
    Incorrect, I don't know what planet you are living on but on the one I live on Earth the so called traditional medicine did more harm than good and it wasn't until the germ theory of disease came about that we started eradicating illness which led to the average human life expediency doubling in the 20th century.
    Andrew Wakefield would say otherwise.
    From "alternative sources" id say its better to accept reality than try to bend it around the facts.
     
  20. redroad

    redroad MDL Guru

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    Yours is another way and I accept you don't want to acknowledge a way of of life that doesn't fit your principled convictions .. however when taking such hardened postures it blocks revelation, the essential part of discovering who you really are .. I have no interest or need in taking any defensive posture with you .. I wish you the best