Medical Marijuana - Compassion, Decriminalization, Human rights...

I have been smoking pot in moderation for 43 years. I often drive after smoking and I've driven over two million accident (and DUI) free miles. I often read misinformation about the effect of marijuana on driving.

In the 70s Car And Driver magazine conducted an experiment over two weekends to determine how marijuana and alcohol affect driving performance. On the first weekend a group of racecar drivers in identical cars established base lap times at Laguna Seca while not under the influence. After establishing each driver's lap times each driver consumed two alcoholic drinks over a two hour period and then repeated the track test. After the alcohol every driver's lap time was significantly slower and there were instances of drivers loosing control and either running off track or spinning out. The following weekend the same test was run but after the base times were established each driver smoked a joint. When the "stoned" drivers were retested the resulting lap times were not statistically different from the base times.

Marijuana does not adversely affect performance any more than caffeine does. In 1983 French tennis player Yannick Noah smoked a couple of bowls of hashish then walked onto center court at Roland Garros and defeated Mats Wilander in straight sets to win the French Open Championship.

 

@ Raymond ... an honest question, have you ever smoked cannabis before? and if not, then your opinion is skued and you're trolling a topic you shouldn't touch at least without a little insight first. I wouldn't be such a huge critic of drinking had I never tried it before, or pharmaceuticals had I not let a so called 'professional' treat me with poison. If cannabis is a medicine that can help people with their illness, who are you, the government or big pharma to denny us that. IMHO the criminalization of drugs does nothing but forces people to shop on the black market and buy into street crime, when their intentions were to treat themselves. Who's the criminal in such case?


Answer: The Governement. they don't care about rights or the people, they care about money. Even though cannabis is being legalized in some places that doesn't ignore the taxes they make the shops pay to stay in business or the fact the fed is able to raid them at any point. Drugs are illegal because of the mass amount of untaxed dollars that can be seized from enforcement operations. To ensure that pool of money keeps flowing the government at times, may aid the import of illegal drugs into the country, such as the case with contras and Nicaragua ...


@Whiznot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Fcks7pla0

 

So, it's just that often the speech is slurred and an individual's reactions visibly slower and poorer, thinking messy, can't hold a conversation, becoming rhapsodic to the bone, incoherent and so on?

Seriously, one gets used to caffeine and over time needs more to get the same effect. The same is the case with alcohol. How about Mara? One builds a higher threshold or not?

I saw some things are less of a problem after taking Mara (a famous guitarists going nuts on the axe for a long time, sex is better - I am reliably informed - having become less tense etc.).

But all of them, in all people, in any circumstance?

Seriously...

 

I am allergic to tobacco and I know that ingesting it as a cookie can be potentially quite harmful to some, so I am not going to take the risk with that which I prize the most, i.e. my brains/sanity/self-awareness. Being a bit "sensitive", I'd rather not risk it, if you can appreciate that...

However, why would I not be a participant in the debate, given ample evidence, both personal experience of others and scientific, I have seen?!?

I do not have to experience a killing, in order to be able to have a stance on it, non?!? I do not have to have a gay experience in order to know it's not for me, non?

Have you anything to fear from our questions? Or can you only "debate" with like-minded individuals? If not, don't BS, don't talk at us, debate with us, please...

In medically justified cases, I would be the first to agree that to relieve pain etc. these substances (Mara, Opium etc.) need to be easily available to all in need. No needless suffering!!! But for that to happen, a rational debate needs to happen, not like this, an emotional and tribal-like adversarial juxtaposing, where both sides mystify the issues to their own ends/prejudices, seeing the "other" in the debate as somehow "inferior"...

Much to your dismay, you will now learn that the world does not call itself "US" and that not all Govs are like the successive US Govs and their "[military and civilian] intelligence" services, racist to the bone, peddling dope to their "minority ghettos" in order to "control them better" and whatnot... Then, after a while (sobering up period), even the US Gov has to learn that they only SPEND money on the problem, that it COSTS a great deal, that it does not earn anything... And it doesn't matter if it's tobacco or drugs of various sorts...

Govs in democracies must show they respect democratic tenets or else they are out on their ear, sooner or later... So, the game in democracies is a little bit more complex, then what you seem to "freely imagine"...

Govs are providers of various rights, as you should know, which duties are enshrined in various democratic constitutions etc. So, they must care, whether they like it or not. Which makes the game that much better for the rest of "us"... I.e. we have both the rights and responsibilities/duties, as citizens, to keep fighting for those rights, something you seem to be trying to do in this thread (you are actively debating issues, which is the first step, of course). Well, maybe you will be surprised by this but: I am also "the other" in relation to Gov - but not necessarily absolutely and uncritically, unthinkingly on "your side", if you want this stuff freely available to anyone (over which age and how do we check?), under any circumstances (medically warranted or not). I.e. you will need to negotiate with the rest of us what should be legal, under certain conditions. I don't want my kinds to be awash with that stuff from primary school backyards onwards, thanx a bunch...

 

Thanks, Yen!

However, alcohol tolerance being "built up" over time, is also possible...

 

Just another example of how the pro legalization lobbyists distort the science at the expense of the general publics health.
Drug group Number' for crash
Drug-free ................... 78 71
Alcohol alone:
BAC < 0.10 percent ....... 26 85
BAC 0.10-0.14 percent .... 26 88 92
BAC 0.15 percent ....... 78 96
Marijuana:
Alone .................... 19 53
With alcohol, BAC < 0.10
percent ................. 15 93
With alcohol, BAC 0.10-0.14
percent ................. 20 95 95
With alcohol, BAC 0.15
percent ................. 53 96
With alcohol and other
drugs .................. 41 98
With drug(s) other than
alcohol ................. 10 100
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1424708/

"There's a time and a place for everything and that place is collage"

Im not trying to deny you that, Trying to stop you wasting a doctors time perhaps but that's about it.

 

@ Raymond TH
It seems to me that mainly the ppl who are against freedom of choice to smoke Marijuana are the the ones who have never tried it or have and didn't like it, so just because it dose not work for them (properly because the minds are closed books ) they feel they have to stop the millions and millions of ppl who do

To have an opinion you must be educated and able to look at both sides of the story which I feel that you can not

The journey of life is not about having uneducated opinions forced down your throat, It is for every individual to make up there own minds

 

I could not agree more
When I took my driving test many years ago I took it after smoking marijuana because at that point in time I had always driven that way, I passed my test first time having only one hours lessons beforehand.
I suffer from dyslexia and through out my life the use of marijuana has helped me focus and bring out my creative side I have achieved many things so far in my life and my mind is an open book hungry for knowledge which I accumulate every day of my life.

 

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

 

If you need doping to accelerate in sports - sports is not for you.

If you need doping for arts, to become creative - arts is not for you.

If you wanna warp your mind senseless and become less "tense", maybe there are other ways you could achieve that without doping?

I am also "artistic", a songwriter, guitarist, maybe a bit more, too... But I never went for the easy way into "creativity" - most of the time it was through pain, which I did not try to numb... To me, like in sports, that's akin to cheating...

I would prefer if people would not drive after drinking or taking opiates, thanx... Call me names. I don't care - if you don't care...

 

Opiates? You must be in the wrong thread on the wrong forum.

 

What are you on about?

 

Perhaps, but then again the only valid point you made is that if you require substance use to excel in any given field then you shouldn't be doing that line of work in the first place. Typically, an artist is attributed his success through delivering content and using a creative process of his choice to do so. For some that may involve experimenting with various substances and using a new found enlightenment in their work. This can be seen as a common practice in many ancient cultures, and although it's not as accepted in our industrial societies you can still find many successful people who have once experimented with drugs.


To close, I'll revert back to my original argument since i believe it still holds merit. That is, without having tried cannabis before, it would be hard for you to understand any benifits it may have to you or our society at large, at least without being bias towards the subject. For example, we'll assume asprin helps you with headaches but maybe Tylenol doesn't. How would you have came to such a conclusion without trying them first? There's already huge potential shown for cannabis as medicine, hence the programs slowly being implemented and new regulations being passed. It's progress, and now the next step becomes how to control it like alcohol or tobacco

@gorski, cannabis is not an opiate, and the world would be much safer if opiate's weren't prescribed like candy.

 

I prefer it if ppl dint drive on alcohol and opiates as well.

Unfortunately that is totally off topic !! This Thread is about Marijuana.

All I can say is it shows that you have a complete lack of knowledge on your side if you think that opiates and Marijuana are connected in any way at all

 

What about them, Yen?

Cheats, like all the rest of them...

Warped mind = opiate, else why would one want to use it?

Maybe their "art" (and I wouldn't call simple rock/pop music "art") would have been much more "true" and "powerful" if they didn't need to numb their minds...?!?

The topic, may I remind you, is MEDICAL USE OF... Not INDISCRIMINATE USE OF... Which is why I am clarifying the real issues behind this little ideology that is being shoved down all our throats, as if it's really harmless...

But I can see much better than most, at least in this thread, biased users, what it is really used for.

And it doesn't "swim"!

 

"Enlightenment" through obfuscation? I think not... Just as you can't get any "enlightenment" standing semi-naked in an Indian field, on one leg with one arm raised and staring into the Sun for years...

Perhaps I understand it much better than you do, being "addicted", perhaps I can see much more clearly, standing on the side, in an independent-of-it-stance, not being affected by it or "biased", as you put it... Quite frankly, needing it (Mara or Opium etc.) for medical reasons is not the same as needing it as a mere consumer, for escapist or "artistic", quasi-elated purpose!

I repeat, since I think this has merit: if you must use drugs to compete with other people you are a waste of space in that branch of Human endeavour! The lot of you are a blight on that activity! And I don't care if you're Ben Johnson or that cyclist Armstrong, whatever his name - that is a SHAME and a CRIME, in my book, as you are a CHEAT!!!

If you can't deal with pain go see a shrink. Or better still, "invest" in some friends and maybe a real friendship and/or relationship with a partner/love of your life might be a REALLY MEANINGFUL, TRULY VALUABLE, non-alienated way out. But these "quick-fix" rubbish substitutes for "solutions" are only good for Govs, drug dealers (I don't care if it's a big pharma industry or small or big time illegal drugs dealer) - and NOT for you, if you have any real Humanity left in you. These somas are only here AGAINST your interests. So much easier to deal with zombies, nicely pacified and "finally able to cope" and "being co-operative"...

But then again, we know that most people are seriously irrational and wouldn't know their real interests even if those were staring them right in the face and hit them over the head with a hammer!!!

And sure, in that case, I would bet I see such people's interests much clearer and better than themselves... being addicted... to escapism... And not having the balls to deal with issues in a REAL way, as opposed to this UTTERLY MEANINGLESS and FALSE manner, which doesn't resolve any of the issues for which one is driven to using those drugs, constantly being pushed back to the drug dealer - from very early on, nowadays, from young kids on Prozac onwards! That is CRIMINAL, to my mind!!!

Stupor and warped mind does - what exactly for you?!? By the same token, I can see how this does many things against you!

Unless you need it medically, which is the theme here. And that I condone, no problem!

Just to go back to the point, after distinguishing the rational core of this debate from everything else!

That has nothing to do with using the darn thing indiscriminately, for anyone, for whatever purpose! You do not distinguish between various uses for obvious purposes. Kids wouldn't be fooled by this non-thinking rhetoric!

Unlike you and Puffingmad (see, who can be more non-biased, than a person with such a nickname ), I am REALLY NOT BIASED, as I would be the first to acknowledge the need to study it more and make readily available to people in real, medical need!!!

But I can see what it does to people... When you do puff madly – what is it that you are doing it for, if you are not in serious medical need?!? Go try to sell it to kids, maybe they'll believe you... Oh, wait, this is exactly what is happening, isn't it? And I unlike you, I genuinely do not want to see this happening!!!