Moving AWAY from Microsoft products IS very much possible for many people.

Discussion in 'Linux' started by smallhagrid, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

    Sep 14, 2013
    #1 smallhagrid, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    Adding to the posted title=>
    IF one is open minded AND desires this goal strongly enough.
    (That is - when one actually desires this goal, of course - and if NOT, then - good for you !!)

    There is already a terrific thread here for folks who just hate any ideas of leaving the M$ OS realm:
    "Why moving to Linux to avoid Microsoft spying is impossible for most people"
    Which was started by Roga in August of 2015 - and has grown to almost 60 pages of assorted replies since.

    This newer thread is intended as a space for good, helpful info that may be useful to encourage folks in new & possibly better adventures rather than a dumping ground for naysayers & why-notters.

    Speaking as someone who has spent over 20 years as a PC tech, working both with windows & mac systems, yet all the while keeping an eye on as many alternate OSes as possible...
    I say that for a great many folks it is totally possible to leave products of Microsoft and most of the new breed of SAAS centered or aimed products behind as well.

    I have done this myself, and helped quite a few totally non-technical folks to get to this goal as well.

    By way of contrast - if one is closed to such a movement, or firm that Microsoft products are the ONLY way to go...or if one simply despises alternatives OSes - please seek elsewhere & do the rest of us the great favour of NOT posting a snarky and/or argumentative reply here.

    The best BAD example of an alternative OS IMO is React OS; a really terrific idea, but also one with no emphasis upon being ready for mainstream usage in this lifetime - so it is not worth more than a quick peek.

    2nd to that are things descended of BEOS (i.e.: Haiku) - which may or may not be helpful for very many folks.

    The thing which is considered to be the MacOS is very useful for non-techies with deep pockets - vs. the lower budget method to get it called 'hackintosh' which requires time, effort & the willingness to jigger around technical aspects in being certain it will work as it should.
    (Given that my clients are regular folks with slender budgets, I am very seldom exposed to this anymore.)

    ChromeOS may be a valid choice for some folks, but again - none of my clients desire something quite so limited as well as being mostly internet dependent to do many tasks.

    For the largest number of folks then, this leaves finding a suitable 'nix variant, usually either a flavour of BSD or Linux.
    Trimming the choices down a bit farther...most who wish to avoid anything suited for a higher tech level will also wish to avoid the BSD family, most likely.

    So basically this leaves finding a suitable Linux variant that is easy enough to get into, along with the needed additional software to accomplish everyday tasks.
    (For folks who MUST use specific windows-only s/w for their work, gaming, etc. - well, you've already read too far.)

    My personal choices, very briefly:
    I use & recommend Ubuntu Mate simply because it is easy to give it a minimalistic classic desktop look, which is what I prefer for my normal, daily tasks.
    It is also very easy & quick to install with a very active community making it easy to find solutions for any problems which may arise.
    I recommend against ZorinOS simply because it is less reliable and made mostly to attract refugees from newer versions of windows (yes, they have a classic theme, but it is not in their free version).
    Having paid for this once, I will not even consider doing so again.

    There are many, many flavours within the broad category of Linux OSes - too many to try listing or describing here, many of which are purpose-centered, technically-centered, or simply not made to accomodate anyone seeking to get started with a different OS.
    The largest distinctions between those 'flavours' is the look & feel of it 1st, and the ease of finding & installing additional s/w, 2nd.
    It can be almost as simple as windows, but also not the same.
    I will not make any other specific suggestions here as that topic has been flogged endlessly for years already.
    Many websites have been made upon the subject of Linux for windows users & those are easy to find.

    One strong advantage for anyone starting out at making such a change is the ability to use live booting media (CD, DVD or USB) to test drive many of the available flavours (I prefer that term to 'distros' as it seems to confuse a great many folks).

    In the distant past (the DOS only era), Linux was too similar (non-graphical), yet more complex than DOS, and very few even knew of its existence.
    That time is long since past.
    Linux has become 1000 times more user friendly; even if one omits mention of all the devices running Android - which of course is also a flavour of Linux.

    Lastly for this initial post I will only mention that for those who have a very strong preference to keep using non-demanding windows apps specifically, this is often accomplished pretty easily under a Linux OS in a number of different possible ways.
    (For anyone who already uses portable apps under windows this is especially simple...)

    I'll stop here - perhaps some other folks may chime in here with even more encouraging info ??

    Happy Holidays to All !!
  2. Anemisme

    Anemisme MDL Novice

    Nov 28, 2018
    Not everybody has will to learn something new really, most just want something that works and that they know already, they don't care about privacy and such.
    I use Windows and Linux, and I like both, but sometimes I just want something that works, and doesn't need to type a password every time I wanna update my system (it's one of those things that pisses me of with Linux, and i'm pretty sure some people thinks the same)
    It's even more pointless if you use your computer at home, why would you need a password in the first place ? For security ? It just takes one chroot and your security is gone (be it encrypted with LUKS or not, there is always a flaw).

    Ubuntu in my opinion is outdated (not by package freshness) because Mint does a better job now, even Solus which is relying on nothing, is better (looking at you snap packages)
    I mean, snap is making Linux Windows mostly, and i'd never use that thing because of this. To me, Linux is just about dependencies and not about whatever bundled package.

    TLDR; typing a password everytime you update is bulls**t and it's just being paranoid.
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  3. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

    Sep 14, 2013
    Perhaps my very clear requests in the OP for NO NAYSAYING went unseen or ignored ??
    This thread is NOT purposed for folks to air what they think is wrong with ANY alternative OS; should this be your desire, kindly start your own OS-flaming thread.

    In post #2, the ONLY valid portion as relates with this thread & that may actually help anyone is this:
  4. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

    Feb 13, 2012
    What exactly do you think is going to happen in a thread about moving away from MS?

    You think you can control what people talk about here just because you made the thread, about a controversial topic that ALWAYS ends up the same way?

    Very naive, you must be new to the internet
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    #5 Yen, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
    It seems people have the need to talk about the topic.
    There's been opened a similar thread here:

    I support that topic and I am interested in a proper course.

    It's not possible without to post personal opinions/preferences, though.

    It's reasonable to have a 'lockscreen' at an OS.
    On mobiles you use an unlock pattern or fingerprint or PW or whatever....
    It's really no issue. IMHO it belongs to a reasonable security concept just as loggin in a client in a domain / PDC.
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  6. Anemisme

    Anemisme MDL Novice

    Nov 28, 2018
    Why do you post something on a forum if you only give " yes/yes" choice ?
    Be kind and read my post from 0 to 100, I discredit nothing, just saying something I don't like doesn't make an OS s**t, quit your elitism or don't post at all.

    It is indeed, but what I'm focusing on is having to put your password everytime you do "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade" , my opinion still, but there should be an option to update without having to type password, you don't do it in Windows.
    But for the regular, it can be useful, perhaps, I don't know as I never use passwords on windows or on my phone...
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  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    Well, an OS has to come with a default concept. They can be simplified like:

    -Windows: Default is admin. Restrictions have to be made at creating user accounts. Ideology: Things are allowed, rights have to be restricted.
    -Linux distros: Default is user. To override user restrictions one uses a 'root' account via authentications. Ideology: There are restrictions, rights have to be granted.

    -Crippled Linux distro AKA Android: Default is user. To override user restrictions one uses a 'root' account via authentications. BUT this account is not available and is 'reserved' to the monopolists. Introducing 'root' breaks security concepts and comes with punishment of the consumer OR is technically prevented by a locked boot loader.

    Which one is best?
    When you open a terminal window you have to confirm 'sudo' with a pw, but only one time (if you let open the terminal window).

    Linux comes with a great variety of customization options.
    If you don't like to have pw on sudo commands put your user in sudoers file, for instance. :)
    As said one strength of Linux is its customisability.
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  8. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

    Sep 14, 2013
    #8 smallhagrid, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
    The concept of encouraging towards being open-minded & seeking improvement is just sooooo foreign here.
    A long time ago I took note of something that most resembles 'equal opportunity haters'; they are fine with ANYTHING, so long as it is hateful, disdainful, or drags others down to their level.

    The familial choices which are NOT an M$ OS for PC users are sadly very few after one pares away the limited ones as well as the more complicated ones; granted, that leaves a huge NUMBER of variations to look at if desired, which makes it even more difficult for anyone who is trying to accomplish this movement towards betterment.
    (Too many unfamiliar options can simply lead to a dead stop made of confusion...)

    Thanks for the giggles in flaming me as an 'internet newbie' !!!

    Such muck tossers are usually in an age group which could be a grandchild of mine - so I ask:
    Dear User,
    Are you of an age to have used 300 baud acoustic connections with what came BEFORE widespread internet usage ??
    Do you have memories of the experience of IBMNet as one of the 1st ISPs, before most folks ever knew there even had come to be an internet ??
    I was in on these experiences, and quite a few others as well.

    All that the flamers here proved with their snarky replies is this:
    1 - They did not (or CAN NOT) grasp what was posted in the OP;
    2 - They are ONLY willing to post unhelpful snipes aimed at tearing others down.

    The other thread whose title includes the word 'impossible' is a better place for such troll-wannabees.

    Yes, yes, YES, yes, yes, Yes - this thread I opened is intended (by me, yes), knowing in full that it would become a flamer magnet before anything useful MIGHT come along - towards ENCOURAGING anyone wishing to escape the M$ OS tyranny - and as such it is asking for (big word alert here !!) : POSITIVE, HELPFUL, ENCOURAGING REPLIES.

    To anyone who feels a need to tear me or anyone else down here, I suggest for you to stay under your bridge and harass ONLY those folks who are unaware of your hurtful existence as they try to just enjoy their own journeys through this life.

    Trolls do not intimidate me, nor do they frighten me - I just smile at them, wish them well & hope for them one day to find the happiness which must surely be buried deeply within themselves.

    Control others ?? Nope.
    No such a desire here - merely a civilised attempt at making a helpful, CONSTRUCTIVE thread for anyone needing or wanting company in reaching an attainable goal.
    (Foreign concept for trolls=> a friendly, polite invitation to openly seek assistance.)

    I would apologize for offending the needs of the troll wannabees to do the exact opposite, but such an apology would be lying, and I've no wish to fall so low.

    Best Wishes to All (even the trolls) !!

    PS: Offered in a positive manner=> I found a good solution for the PW annoyance a while back.
  9. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    Some people will be willing to try 'NIX...Some won't.

    I see this whole Windows vs. Linux thing like owning a car. Some people don't mind working under the hood, some don't want to be bothered.
    nix is an "under the hood" OS. If you know what you're doing, you can create an awesome distro with lots of bells and whistles.

    Windows is designed more for the "common man" who doesn't want to tinker with the underpinnings of the OS.

    And let us not forget that there are people who are learning Windows because there is a large market for PC repair and they do it for a living.

    That's the main reason why they're here. To learn how to make Windows 10 run well enough so that their customers are happy.
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  10. smallhagrid

    smallhagrid MDL Addicted

    Sep 14, 2013
    As a 'repair guy' who gave up windoze after XP, 100%, I wish them all well & remain delighted NOT to have any need to look at such dreadful stuff as a workday task.

    As to the 'Ford vs. Chevy' POV, such disputes have no real answers, only personal choices.

    The super good news is that after many years in waiting is no longer needed to 'get under the hood' to use an OS like Ubuntu - which is why it has become so very dominant in places where folks can only afford used and/or older PCs.

    I waited, watched & actively tested lots of Linux flavours all those years, eagerly awaiting a time when it would become 'grandpa friendly'...
    And that time finally arrived.
    This allowed me to rescue some totally non-techie friends from being held hostage by the windows tyranny as my 1st confirmations of this success.

    Yes, they did so with expert help - but now things have gotten even better, and pretty much anyone can make this happen on their own.

    It is the Joe or Josephine Anybody for whom I made this thread.
    I am quite certain we have quite a few non-tech folks who come here seeking help and/or guidance from the more tech savvy folks here simply because I've seen & responded when their posts have come around here..
    This area may even be an opportunity for the more savvy folks to make some connections in helping others who are in need of some expert guidance !!
  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    #11 Yen, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
    Yes it is possible to move away from M$ products. I did it you all can as well! I do support your migration and will assist you.

    Now I can leave this thread alone.....:):D

    I do not see any flamers here at this thread.

    Somebody did not like to have PW on sudo as obstacle to move away from M$..and I tried to eliminate the 'obstacle'....

    People need to POST concerns which then can be eliminated by people who did a successful migration away from M$ already.
    But to consider concerns as naysaying or invalid arguments or to complain when people are pointing on 'reality' that people do maybe not follow what you actually want ...hmmm I don't know.

    I simply say: The degree of suffering using Microsoft products has to be high enough and then a migration away from them can follow.
    You did it after XP since you have reached your own degree, others have another scale....mine was reached after W7...(I still use windows additionally, though. I have to..professionally.....all the lab's clients have it installed)...

    The 'obstacle' for not moving away is a barrier in one's mind and is also based on habits. Linux distros are usable even for absolute beginners.
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  12. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

    Oct 15, 2011
    lol. i once read about the time people waste getting through capchas.. once it is all added up. it seems to amount to whole lifetimes...
    and when i see a good guy like enthousiast posting another post on another crashing m$ update thingy,i can only shake my head in sadness...
    i approve this thread very much, just not of the explosive rules and regulations, as i am actively looking for alternatives, and Yen is right;
    we are the slaves of habit..
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  13. Krager

    Krager MDL Senior Member

    Jan 9, 2017
    I know lots of people have moved away from MS products. The first alternative would be Apple, but their products suffer from a lot of the same issues, don't they? I don't know since I've never used Apple stuff. Then there's the *nixes. There's no free lunch there either. You can really pull your hair out dealing with different kinds of issues running those systems. But you always have clear and present control of the system, no covert stuff going on in the background. That's worth a lot, really a lot.

    That ReactOS looks promising, but will that ever even come out of an Alpha state, that's a big project for open source, maybe over the limit of what can be accomplished. Would be a perfect solution for me though. I did love Windows XP and to a lesser extent Windows 7. Windows XP was a masterpiece in my mind.
  14. taviruni

    taviruni MDL Senior Member

    May 8, 2010
  15. caxhatq

    caxhatq MDL Novice

    Feb 7, 2015
    Started out on linux with ubuntu then used a lot of distros until i settled on arch linux, really like the rolling release model but sometimes it breaks due to kernel updates and/or video drivers. Currently dual booting windows and arch because i play dx11 games while WINE/DXVK is getting up to speed. I just wish some game companies saw linux as a viable gaming platform and released games on it natively using the vulkan api instead of DX -> OGL/vulkan translation because performance takes a hit due to that process. Really like using linux for everything else myself.
  16. Krager

    Krager MDL Senior Member

    Jan 9, 2017
    Yeah it's all about what platform people write software for. There's a small number of games for *nix, but Windows by far gets the most support for 3D computer games.

    In my case I only have a small number or programs I use that don't have suitable substitutes. To use those I'd have to dual boot which is something I don't want to do. So Windows wins.

    Next time I buy a machine I'm going to look to something *nix friendly. I just bought a new laptop, was on win7 at the time. I should have actually done that this time. Had I known the awfulness of Win10 I would have rethought that purchase.

    How did they go from a winner like win7 to the incredible turd that is win10 in such a short time. I mean I was a Windows fanboy during the reign of winXP. I can't stand win10, there's pretty much nothing I like about it.
  17. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    #17 Yen, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    My own story about 'PCs' started 1982....I know and have used a lot of different operating systems since then...
    The first impressive one had been the AmigaOS workbench. Yeah educated people know there were windows before MSwindows :)

    Microsoft has enhanced until XP and after setback with Vista has reached their own top with w7 again and since then they are constantly falling down...

    What I have learned during the past years is: I cannot constantly relate to my own perspective. I rather try to understand other peoples view on operating systems.

    When they say I cannot move away there are personal things which do exist and which make them feel uncomfortable.
    Then it depends on the will and motivation to overcome this feeling....
    There is actually no argument pro M$ only products. One can replace anything with more or less efforts.

    If you want to do common things go to Linux. If you want gaming, buy a console additionally.
    If you have windows only software, OK, dual boot it when you need until there will be an alternative way...
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  18. toyo

    toyo MDL Senior Member

    Aug 14, 2009
    Really dislike consoles. Prefer to game on a good PC 110%. I think it was worth recommending consoles while the crypto crisis was in full swing, but now with decent cards like an RX580 or 1070ti being in the 200-350USD range, there's just no point in consoles.

    Outside their exclusive crap like God of War and Spiderman, which just makes me hate them even more.
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    Well...then this still applies:

    P.S.: I have got also paid software and a few games on windows I don't wanna miss.
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  20. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

    Feb 25, 2010
    Microsoft is just another company that does what it wants until it's profits drop and share holders complain then it adjusts somewhat . the edge browser is being gutted now and will be replaced with chrome internals and will be more compatible they didn't do that because wanted to but because they had to. they also are adding sand box now so you can load software in a protected environment . people use Microsoft because its one of the easiest systems to use! do they spy on you yes ! do a lot of them care no ! if they did would they use facebook twitter google buy things on line pay bills on line with a credit card do on line banking shoping on amazon the only privacy a person has any more is in the bathroom unless your married LOL