MSMG ToolKit

Hi @MSMG,

I have a seperate bug report for Remove System Apps Menu.

Whenever I apply modifications entering the numbers there, Narrator Quick Start - QuickStart Guide for Narrator | Depends on: SpeechRecognition will be restored to "+" after it was displayed as "-".
Each time I set it to "-", it will be restored to "+" when I modify other entries.

This is the only place and option I have seen this behavior for, and it does not matter what base image I am using.
The Toolkit's version is 13.4, but I vaguely remember seeing this earlier already.
Given that it is in the latest version, I must assume it was not reported earlier.

Note: I have disabled everything in the other Remove menus, so I think it is not based on another entry which I should have turned off for this to work as intended.

 

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@MSMG

There seems to be also a bug with Remove Multimedia Components Menu.
Disable Speech Recognition | Needed for: Cortana, Ease of Access, Narrator & Narrator Quick Start
Go Back, then to Remove System Apps Menu and immediately back to Remove Multimedia Components Menu.
Speech Recognition | Needed for: Cortana, Ease of Access, Narrator & Narrator Quick Start is reactivated again.

If it is relevant, encountered with Windows 10 22H2 19045.2965.

 

Hi @MSMG,

Thank you for the quick fix for the last reported bug (I would have never thought that such a "typo" would be causing this behavior).

I started performing tests as your previous post did raise some valid concerns.
It turns out that while the system is fine handling the adjustments I suggested, the updates, on the other hand, with explicit reference in the .mum files (from what I understand) will fail with a terminating ERROR_SXS_ASSEMBLY_MISSING error.
I was playing around with WinSxS and Registry combinations, and the only difference so far was whether the update was aborted or it was hanging forever, while still showing the same error in CBS.log.

I have some ideas and I wish to say that I already made progress, but it is a bit early to conclude and I also need to make some adjustments pending from earlier and adaptation based on some current results for my script, not to mention that I have learnt my lessons from early conclusions.
I do have some test scenarios in my mind (for both the normal user updating path and mine), but it will take some days to go through them at best.

I just wanted to give you a heads up that unfortunately this issue is a little more complex than I anticipated based on my initial success.
If you are holding back 13.4 because you are looking into this, I suggest you just release it as soon you can, and we make here progress whenever we can, hopefully together.

I wish to share some very personal opinion with regards to Windows 11 (if anyone does not like it, just ignore it, I don't intend to have an ongoing discussion about it, but I feel the need for drawing attention to certain things):

Spoiler: Windows 11 major issues

Over the weekend I had my very first experience with Windows 11 (22H2) based on a request that I was fulfilling - you can call me an absolute beginner in that regards.
The experience was more terrible than I expected, and I am concerned - if I may say that - that people are actually using this "state of the art system".
To keep it short, I am not going to go into deep details how much of a botched system it is, even though it had several releases already, I am sure that what had to be discussed about it was already discussed, I am just late to the party.
I do understand that it comes along with newly released hardware, however, it is just a mess, and there are no excuses for it.

Now, the biggest, and seeming unmanageable issue with Windows 11 is how the updating of system has been reworked and it is impacting the users of this tool without a doubt.
I did perform several component removal with the toolkit (pre-release of 13.4) successfully, however, if I removed anything aside from the options listed under [8] Windows Apps, and I do mean anything, no matter how carefully I have been slimming the images, if components were removed from [1] Internet, [2] Multimedia, [3] Network [4] Privacy, [5] Remoting, [6] System, [7] System Apps, didn't matter which combinations, I was not able to update the system via .msu deployment or even online Windows Update successfully, and the CBS logs were always full with terminating errors for missing components.
I had limited amount of time on hands, but don't think the effort would be paying of if more than half of the options cannot be removed without such an impact.
Essentially it has come to the point where you have to decide if you want a privacy-friendly or a secured system.
At this point I just wonder what is the benefit of having the Toolkit supporting Windows 11.
It seems to be too much effort for nothing (while Windows 10 support still has potential for improvements).
If anyone is willing to sacrifice security for removed parts will suffer from the consequences eventually.
These days are all about system exploitation.
One more thing to add here is that I did disable driver installation from Windows Update, yet it was still doing it.

Furthermore, while performing tests on VirtualBox (last office release and the latest test snapshot), after having Guest Additions installed, no matter if I was working with a modified or an untouched image, the guest system froze after minutes, rendering all my planned tests incomplete.
The only way to work with it was to remove the Guest Additions, losing the communication (shared clipboard and file transfer) between the host and guest system, again restricting the type of performable activities.

My advice would be to acquire cheap Win10 keys - there are legal opportunities for such - and just stick to it for as long as you can - I already made a reference about a possibility to install updates till 2032, in which case it should be worth it, and by then maybe we have some better options.
The only reason - ideally - for using the latest system is to maximize the performance of the latest top-tier hardware on the market for tasks which require vast amount of computation (far beyond gaming), but I fail to see how it would leave a well-prepared Windows 10 in the dust.

 

hi @tempdrive1 About the Issues of Windows 11, I have been editing Windows Image without any issues and also I can update windows safely. The problem you could be facing is that you're removing the components, which is a totally wrong step if you want integrate updates. First, you need to integrate the updates and them remove the components. Also, this advice is given by Tech Yes City on MSMG toolkit video 2-3 years ago. About the guest edition or something you're doing, is a specific case with is not totally something about @MSMG toolkit but yes with Windows and should be address to Feedback Hub app to Microsoft take a look into this.

 

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This has been fixed on Toolkit.cmd from 2023-06-03.

 

@MSMG I made a change about adding the Administrator Account. I went to test it, because it's been a while since I've tested it, and adding multiple accounts isn't working.

In this case I removed the option and made other corrections. In the AutoUnattend block.
I changed some details in the Language Fallback scheme.
Because if it becomes empty, removing the initial empty space will add "~1" as a value in the variable.

I like the change in the "Installation Notes" part and make the IMCK Changes to "Unattended". In IMCK I keep the :AutoUnattendXML outfile block as it is. Thnks!

Follow the new file.

 

Hi @DennyAmaro,

Thank you for your feedback.

I never integrate updates, I find it pointless we you get 2 updates a month these days.
All I did was using the component removal option and adding the Registry tweaks.
Never faced any issues doing the same for Windows 10, though that is an entirely different system.

So after removing the components, applying the registry tweaks, saving the image, installing the system, the first thing I tried was to use the Momentum 3 update (KB026446) from the .msu file (preparation for the update, when it extracts the files, takes way longer than for Windows 10!), and it failed.
I went online, tried Windows Update, failed again.
Then I also tried the online update for May, failed again.
CBS.logs were 100-400 MB each time, which is insane amount of data, a lot of complaints about components not being accessible.
And of course, no (terminating) errors were encountered for an untouched image.

Is there anything special required for Windows 11 after components have been removed?
Honestly, I am not aware, but things should not be over complicated in any case.

 

Hi @tempdrive1 about Windows 11, is not complicated and is basically like Windows 10 except for the difference between applications names and new features in the system. Maybe you could share your "preset" (Things you remove) so we can better assist you. But, keep in mind that MSMG toolkit has everything detailed and the team behind or the developer behind @MSMG try to provide all the possible informations for every component available in the toolkit.

Also you're using only MSMG toolkit? or you use MSMG and them another software, like NTLite?

 

Maybe if you share the registry tweaks that you apply we can check what is happening and better understanding the scenario you're facing. And if has a bug inside a registry tweak we can simply provide to you and them send to @MSMG to update in the next version of the toolkit.

 

@DennyAmaro,

I know this toolkit since 2019 or so, and I have been reading many of the posts here since.
I don't use other tools (I played around with NTLite many years ago) and I don't use Registry tweaks which are not part of the toolkit for creating the image.
I never use anything but what is listed as selectable in the menus for removal, and I never integrate updates.
I usually create once modified image, test it quickly, and (re-)use it as a base until I need to move to a new major version.
Started with 1803 (very-very easy-to-manage and stable system), which I was able to update until the very last release (05/2021), and only after that I moved on straight to 21H1, and now stuck with 21H2 "forever", so I have been using the toolkit a little more lately.
Nothing special was done, really, I was initially doing the same thing like for Windows 10: remove all the components listed in the remove menu, except for Windows Update, AppresolverUX and Notepad.
Works fine for Windows 10, did not work for Windows 11.
So, when installation of the .msu failed, I created another image, this time skipping everything that sounded to complex or had a dependency or was listed as being a dependency.
So pretty much Firewall, Linux Subsystem, Edge, Speech Recognition, Game Explorer, Narrator, System Backup, Windows Update etc. were kept, but even so, it did not work.
I had time for 4 tries as I had to hand over the (low effort) work, and for the 3rd try I only went for selecting everything from [8] Windows Apps.
This was the only success I managed to have, even though I did one more try after this, but it was unusable once again.
Registry Tweaks: from Customize menu, [8] Apply Tweaks, almost everything.
I specifically selected no drivers from online, and yet every driver was updated through Windows Update.

This is the base image I was using: en-us_windows_11_consumer_editions_version_22h2_updated_sep_2022_x64_dvd_f408dad5.iso, version 22621.525

I honestly don't think there was much room for errors, yet no major component could be removed for having a successful update installed afterwards.

Based on this experience, I would pretty much need to test it by removing each and every component individually to see which actually break the update behavior, and that is about 3-5 days of effort, creating 30+ images, deploying them, trying to update them.

 

Did you try with a more recent SO @tempdrive1 ? Microsoft update their ISO and also could fix your problem. I usually download ISOs from UUPdump and no issues

 

Well, technically speaking what we are doing here is not what they intend us to do by any means.
The untouched software is updatable, I was facing no issues at all with it, and that's what they are providing support for anyway.

I must assume that this system has more severe core differences beyond the new design, which seems to be affecting such in-depth customizations.
(To me it feels like it was developed by well-taught, but young, freshly out-of-school developers, who only used mobile phones or tables in their lives - you all know exactly which core features are missing compared to Windows 10.)
Honestly, I would be surprised if it would be better with any of the latest releases, assuming this is a solid base for how it should work, and I hardly think they are going to undo something like that rather than keeping it as a new baseline.
And it's not like it's the initial release (of Windows 11), so changes they did must be intentional and for their own (support related) benefits.
If, however, this is how it is going to work going forward, you will not be able to update your systems, or at least not in an easy way.
All of the errors that I was seeing when briefly checking on the logs were about missing system parts.
And unless they allow the system to have missing parts (which again contradicts the intended designed as per my guess), later releases will behave the same.

I will try to stay away from it, mostly because I do not need any of these new features, while everything is quite stable and predictable with Windows 10.
The task I was assigned has been completed, and the user knows very little about computers anyway, I just wanted to make the most out of it, but this is the system that was forced on a relatively new hardware, being the new standard.

I'm curious if anyone else is going face such issues.

If the rumored Windows 12, that should be released in about a year's time, is going to similar to this, it is not going to be a good situation for us.
One thing people tend to overlook whenever a "downgrade" surfaces is that the younger generations, who have no exposure to former experience, will have nothing to compare to, and believe it is as good as it gets, and as such there will always be users for it, no matter how terrible things get.

I appreciate the effort you put into helping me.

 

Hi @MSMG,

Thank you once again for your efforts.

My tests (for removing the suggested Registry COMPONENTS and WinSxS data) were based on the removal performed on a live system with and without ResetBase and checks prior trying to install an update.
As the updates failed every single time, these changes were not something that could be used by the general public, at least not this way.
I did not try applying the changes to the offline image yet, as it is more time consuming (trim, modify additionally, deploy, test), and I wanted to go backwards (if the changes applied to a live system work, try the same changes applied to the offline image - which you did).
Needless to say, the goal is to have enhancements without system breaking changes, especially for the main user base.
Untouched LCUs are not causing issues when using ResetBase, because the intended state of the system will be restored by the LCU, undoing (almost) all the work done by the Toolkit.

One thing you did not mention (or at least I could not figure out based on your reply) with regards to the modified LCU + ScanHealth test is whether the ScanHealth errors were terminating ones.
My initial problem was (to recap) that for system that resembles this approach (to prevent redeployment of the removed components) ScanHealth (called after LCU deployment + ResetBase) was aborted, which is not an acceptable behavior.
Did this happen during your test as well?

I will be doing the tests I have in mind and report back once done.
Nevertheless, I would be happy to assist you any way I can - I do have a lot of free time on my hands.

As for Windows 11, by "base image" I meant what I was using as a starting point/to build up on, not being the initial release.
And believe me, I was not expecting any issues, given how well things worked out for Windows 10 based on your efforts, yet that is all I was left with despite all my efforts to make it work unfortunately.
Could you perhaps give it a try as well by working with the same image version?
There should not be any compatibility issues.
Just remove a couple random components from every group that you see fit.
And once you installed the system, go for installing KB5026446 from .msu while being offline as a first, though trying Windows Update should result in the same.
I was facing issues on both virtual and real machines, however, there should not be any difference with regards to this issue at least.
For me it is not really a problem as I don't intended to use Windows 11 (now that 12 is also around the corner as a hopefully better alternative), but I think others could be impacted as well.

If you need me to redo this for Windows 11 and provide you log data (assuming you did not manage to reproduce the issue), do let me know.

 

which Component removes

Code:

Program Files\Windows Security\BrowserCore\BrowserCore.exe

?