[PLEASE READ] Microsoft and Privacy

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Michaela Joy, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    Hi everybody,
    Recently, I've noticed and even been a part of threads speaking about privacy. I'm sorry to say that some of those posts in this sub-forum have served no good purpose other than to create a "Tinfoil-hat" flame war.

    These issues need to be discussed. Not only are they critically important to Americans, but they are critically important to the entire world. Unfortunately, they were not and usually are not discussed in a civilized way.

    Although these discussions are very important, they also must not infringe on the rights of or information disseminated to others here.

    I've have found that privacy issues are not OS specific; They apply to every OS and every technology manufacturer and software maker out there.

    So, to provide a place where this discussion may be carried out, I have opened a thread with the specific purpose of discussing Privacy and the Microsoft Privacy agreement.

    You'll find it here: http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/63682-The-Microsoft-Privacy-agreement-Read-it-Understand-it

    If you have those concerns (I know I do.) then I urge you to discuss them in the above thread. I'd like to see more scrutiny of EULAs created by other software makers as well.

    I welcome your replies. :)

    :MJ
     
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  2. MysTikAL3

    MysTikAL3 MDL Senior Member

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    #2 MysTikAL3, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
    So many sheeple to control and take advantage of, and - oh - so - little - time..:vampire:


    [​IMG]

    Among many others (NSA, U.S.gov), this is now Microsoft's DREAM come true...:vertag::48:
     
  3. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Sid_Viscous: I totally agree with your feelings about Windows 10. I would never install it, and I would recommend against it to anyone who asks me.

    My intent was to help remove these kinds of threads from the Windows 10 sub-forum, because the people who are here have decided to stay with Windows 10, and do not wish to be distracted by this type of conversation.

    No offense was intended.

    :MJ
     
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  4. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    #4 Yen, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
    Major edit--ach...nevermind...:)

    @Sid_Viscous:
    If only one person rethinks about privacy because others have illustrated in a nice and objective way what's going on at M$ then the others have achieved exactly 100% more than your post ever can...

    ...you dramatically go off topic to like drug dealers and "....was lawfully killed by the local police".

    Do something effective against malware next time and post your measures that others can have benefit of it. Your posts appear to be repellent like a dictator IMHO.

    "Because when you control the language, you control the outcome of the debate."
    "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What utter rubbish. Bunch of general meaningless drivel."
    Right! You have successfully illustrated it yourself. :rolleyes:

    It is all about capitalism, no need to behave the same way as those you condemn. I take it thanks its for free because of that you have to sell your soul (privacy)?

    Add: Are you actually aware of that you attack people who have basically the same opinion about w10?
     
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  5. ancestor(v)

    ancestor(v) Admin
    Staff Member

    Jun 26, 2007
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    OK guys, at least keep this thread clean... I did some cleanup, because I think this topic is important... with Win10, IMHO Microsoft has done a huge step towards facebook-ish collecting all kind of data. And many (just look at the update quota, millions per hour and counting) people just give away their data, as they already do with many other "social networks"; without loosing a single thought to it. Because basically Win10 is just not worth a penny, MS knows no one will buy it and so they're giving it away for free, seemingly collect an endless amount of user data and further strengthen their market position by making sure everyone will continue using Windows

    From my point of view, all this Windows 10 business is highly suspicious and if even a small amount of the stuff from above posted links is true, I am wondering why no country bans Windows 10 for espionage. I could argument further but that would lead to the "De-americanizing the world" thread.

    Call me paranoid, but I don't trust social networks, Skype, Whatsapp and many other "helpers"... now I can add Windows 10 to my list. My android device is rooted, using another kernel, app control etc.
    Just because I read the (valid) argument that many people say they care about privacy but still use all kinds of privacy-invading everyday aps and social networks. Again this would lead to Off-Topic, so nothing further on this here.

    I though that since XP Microsoft has learnt a bit, but they just didn't. In this exciting atmosphere with NSA, Snowden and many other things going on they place such a suspicious OS for free. And it works just fine:
    http://www.windowscentral.com/report-windows-10-now-installed-67-million-pcs

    I don't want MDL to be a place that blindly advocates MS new policy and helps them further distributing Win10 without people at least questioning what is going on.

    So whatever you do in life: at least question it. Reconsider if there are valid concerns. Finally I am just going to leave two links here:

    1) https://imgur.com/gallery/3Iy8AwQ
    2) https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/

    ... and because I closed these threads, just for completeness:
    http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/63752-If-you-install-Windows-10-you-can-end-up-in-jail
    http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/63682-The-Microsoft-Privacy-agreement-Read-it-Understand-it
     
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  6. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    I'd like to add that My original intent was and still is not to detract from the esthetics or functionality of Windows 10.
    That would be an insult to those who choose to use it. It's important to understand that, by saying yes to the EULA (needed to install the OS) We are literally signing our rights away, because the Privacy statement is tacked on the end of the EULA.

    I hope that the points that we discuss will encourage others to read and know their rights.
    Something becomes critically important to us once we lose it.

    Peace.

    :MJ
     
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  7. Soulfate

    Soulfate MDL Member

    Feb 14, 2011
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    Please don't never use the argument "If it's free, then you're the product" anymore, because it's wrong.
    You have ever been the product of MS and it was never free. Many Linux distributions are free, so linux users are products ? No.
     
  8. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    #8 zero2dash, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
    I'm somewhere in between myself; I don't like the privacy concerns but the ability to turn them off (at least on the surface) appeases me enough. Maybe I'm giving MS too much credit believing that by putting a slider one way they're actually not spying on me.

    My question is this: I've always believed that Microsoft was a bit on the privacy theft side, at least in the releases post-XP. It seems like every release of Windows since XP, there have been people on one side or the other either screaming about the privacy concerns in the new OS (be it Vista, 7, 8/8.1, and now 10), or the other side, saying things are no worse now than they were before.

    Now granted, 10 is taking a monumental/fundamental step in the wrong direction obviously since all these settings are even there to tinker with (whereas before, the settings did not exist so maybe that led people to believe that the tracking was not being done).

    I was basically against 10 until installing it, shutting off these privacy leeches, and using it; now I really like it as an OS. However in hindsight I'm thinking of reimaging my drive and going back to my 7 install....but, I kinda really like 10 now. (Privacy concerns be damned - at least since I disabled all the known ones.)

    Is there any definitive proof (either way) that 7 or any release post-XP spied, didn't spy, and to what extent either way? I get the feeling that people are hating on 10 with the privacy concerns (rightly so), but I've heard from people personally who thought 7 was rotten underneath as well in a similar fashion. However, I haven't seen any proof to justify their claims. It seems to me like 10 is easy to hate on because the spying is right there in black and white, with on/off sliders, whereas in the past those sliders didn't exist so maybe the spying didn't?

    Just wanted to get other people's opinions. :)
     
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  9. sevenacids

    sevenacids MDL Addicted

    Aug 17, 2012
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    First of all, thanks for starting this thread as a civilized approach to the subject. As I mentioned in the other thread, you usually can't really argue privacy because it will always lead to the exact flame wars, downplay, and "I don't care" statements we've seen over there.

    @ancestor(v): I don't think you're paranoid, because the crucial point is that all of the services you named don't exist because of altruism or community service. Facebook, for example, is not providing a social network because it is a useful tool for people to connect and take care of their social contacts. It exists because of the fact that there is money in it, money from ads and data collection and analytics. Your data is their trading capital, and privacy just an unwanted roadblock. And because of that, they are not trustworthy. (This is no judgement, I don't like to think in categories such as good and bad. All I'm stating here is what I think are the facts.)

    In case of the EULAs, I think most people are simply trained to blindly accept them. Why? Simple: TL;DR; Written in legal speech, they're also not easy to understand when you just skim over the text, you have to take some time and read it carefully. People don't have time these days, and the fact that they might find something uncomfortable within the text makes it even easier for most to displace it and believe it cannot be so bad. Ultimately, it's kind of a quandary: If I don't accept it, I cannot use the product or service in question ("but I sooo want it!"). It's a question of how much we're willing to give.

    To come back to Windows 10: There are means to circumvent the data collection and telemetry, but it takes some effort. You might not be able to turn everything off 100%, but still there are options and it's better than nothing. I mean, if you say "yes" to the EULA but care about your privacy, the goal is: don't let them get any of your personal data.
     
  10. Husker1337

    Husker1337 MDL Novice

    Jul 15, 2015
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    I think everyone concerned could benefit from KeyScrambler
     
  11. odiebugs1

    odiebugs1 MDL Expert

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    Hey MJ : Hope all is well, how was your day, great I hope, Thanks for wrecking my day, an the little mushroom, along with Yen. LMAO :rofl6:

    So is 8.1 as bad or at least half for having to remove Tel and Data C, if it's only half as bad, and I only need to change half the stuff in it, then I'm going back.

    I can see somethings for collecting, but this is a joke, even though the cops won't be like - Hey Sgt, we got another one with a free Arkham knight, lets roll and :rocket:get that SOB.

    But still there's a limit to what they should be able to do even in a lease.
     
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  12. damianfox

    damianfox MDL Senior Member

    Jan 23, 2011
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    To keep your privacy with this OS just install Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB, then turn Telemetry off. I think its that simple.
     
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  13. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    Ok but then you're running an (eventual) out of date OS and what's the recourse then? I appreciate the option but I don't really consider that to be an option, TBH. Gain privacy, lose elsewhere. Use 10 Pro, turn off privacy settings, gain some privacy, gain updated OS, also gain maybe some worry. :) At this point I'd rather concede the worry than the updates. ;)
     
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  14. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
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    This is a good start, but we have reports of leaks still. Supposedly it sends any search requests to MS as well.
    We really need a proper analysis done with wireshark on various programs and apps.
     
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  15. odiebugs1

    odiebugs1 MDL Expert

    Jul 30, 2015
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    Thanks.


    I'm using Enterp now, just not the LT, and SQMlogger won't delete, ran as system, then there's the task scheduler, so far looking around seems to be quite a pain, and i haven't checked to see if the Cumul restored anything.

    Looks like the system is listening hard and so many ports are open.
     
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  16. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    (As a sort of counterpoint, in the hopes of not going OT, but basically further elaborating on my OP)
    Off a quick Google search :eek: I see links to news stories about the NSA having a hand in Win7 development (and Vista).
    I'm against the notion of privacy being tossed aside and disregarded in anything whether it be an OS, an application, a smartphone, or anything. BUT again I'm struggling to see any facet where user privacy is not lifted in some capacity no matter what OS you use. I see a lot of people lately going "Oh well this is unacceptable, I'm going back to/sticking with Windows 7!" and it's like...umm...the grass isn't always greener on the other side. :31:
     
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  17. nexus76

    nexus76 MDL Addicted

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    #17 nexus76, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    I think the combination of
    data-mining + forced updates + using clients files or content if required + tapping network connections
    is the overkill now for msft.

    A very bad way in times of global spying and growing doubts about it's real purpose.

    Henry Kissinger said: "America has no friends, america has interests." and it looks like that's what
    Windows 10 is made for.
     
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  18. odiebugs1

    odiebugs1 MDL Expert

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    Some of it is the idea of what they are allowed and not the actual acts. I have no social profile, online I am odiebugs and have never ever used my real name in 15yrs. I have seen peoples lives destroyed and their credit because they had so much junk and entire life posted that they could be traced all day long. So I don't have to much to worry about and there's noting in this PC I care about, if I was doing something wrong, NSA, Obama could find who did it.

    Like I said, the idea and disregard, when this country, USA was made because we were sick of government, now we are rapped by them and it's people who have the oh well attitude that has allowed it.

    Don't take that the wrong way.
     
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  19. odiebugs1

    odiebugs1 MDL Expert

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    #19 odiebugs1, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    You think that's bad, no friends. Our Gov has caused every problem and 911, but for some reason the people have paid for their mistakes. When were not supplying weapons to someone so they can attack, were placing them all over.

    Sorry, I hope I haven't opened a can of worms.

    But we did end the war when he took over, BAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAA :roflmao:
     
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  20. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    • The keylogger can be disabled/removed.
    • Forced updates, yeah, I kinda have a problem with this but being able to delay reboots sorts softens the blow.
    • Using files or content - if you're talking about the botnet/torrent updating they do, yes I don't like that either and again that can be disabled.
    • Tapping network connections I don't know what you mean by that. (Please elaborate! :))

    I probably come across as giving them [MS] too much credit, but again, yeah, I disagree with the notions but a lot of this stuff can be turned off or disabled or not used. But maybe I'm missing something....:confused:
     
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