[PLEASE READ] Microsoft and Privacy

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Michaela Joy, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. nexus76

    nexus76 MDL Addicted

    Jan 25, 2009
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    #21 nexus76, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    yeah, but as soon as third party tools are required for getting back control there are potential security issues
    can someone help me to understand why MS took so much control off their OS?
    regarding the network track, microsoft is collecting which networks windows 10 is connecting to.
    didn't read about that? I suggest the defender network inspections collects the data.

    hell, why is the cursor permanently jumping a line above in this forum?
     
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  2. Dolorous Edd

    Dolorous Edd MDL Expert

    Aug 31, 2009
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    Fact is that more and more we live through our computers, as Odie implies, perhaps it is best to minimize the type of information you would ever want released to the public on your PC.

    Just going to throw something out there, if you don't trust MS with Windows 10 why would you trust them with Windows 7 which is approaching end of life anyway.

    We have become so dependent on our smartphones for everything, many people are vulnerable to exposing virtually all of there personal data if their phone were lost or compromised and now MS is trying to model their OS after your typical iOS or Android device.

    The best defense is developing good, personal user habits with your devices, THAT is the only way to avoid exposure.

    As far as torrents, downloading movies and all of that stuff I would be more concerned with my ISP (Comcast) than I am with this OS.

    If Linux was viable everyone would be on it, but you would still be putting your faith in whoever coded the applications you used.
     
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  3. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    What 3rd party tools are you referring to?
    I followed the reddit tweak post and didn't need anything other than gpedit and an admin command prompt. :confused:
    I know there are now 3rd party tools that do the tweaks via GUI instead, but that's not required.
     
  4. nexus76

    nexus76 MDL Addicted

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    #24 nexus76, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    home users dont have gpedit, ... yeah regpatch, I know, but why taking control from the users, thats pointless:
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-scam-email-will-encrypt-your-files-for-ransom/
    defender acs like a supersniffer, I'm not okay with the habit of the lousy defender monitoring or even interfering with
    my security suite!

    tools that use trusted installer token to purge the crap
    to cumulate the acting of windows 10:
    it behaves like a client with oobe datamining and group policy restrictions in a (public) domain, does it ring a bell?
    the presumption is: more than 99% of the clients are not experts or aware or able to switch the tracking off.

    who has a good feeling now about a voodoo-OS?
     
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  5. odiebugs1

    odiebugs1 MDL Expert

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    #25 odiebugs1, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    There's so many great pro's and cons. I'm SO CONFUSED :druff:


    Imagine if everyone of the 14 million dropped win 10 and said it was due to the intrusive nature of the OS,
    we wouldn't have this thread anymore, and I think we'd all be happy.
     
  6. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    The update thing, absolutely is fkng stupid.
    Defender is a joke, yes I understand the issue but I don't think most people use defender. Anyone dumb enough to use Defender deserves...no, I can't even go there, that's not fair at all. :)

    The other stuff, I'm sorry I don't know about or haven't heard about.
    I agree that it's unfair, but it's up to the end user whether they fall for it or not. I like to think (maybe incorrectly) that most people have friends/relatives like us who they look to for support who would tell them all the things wrong with it and how to fix it; I also think the bad publicity Win10 is getting over privacy concerns will hopefully make more people aware. I'm not holding my breath that MS changes their tune, but obviously that'd be nice.

    My thing with 10 is, it's so snappy...Aero snap was already great in 7 and it's even better in 10. Task view is great. DX12 will eventually be great. I like the overall look. (I don't like having a disjointed Settings section and the old school Control Panel still, but I can deal with it.) And the leaner install size/overall performance especially on SSD. If it wasn't for these things, I wouldn't even have 10 installed anymore. Maybe I'm oblivious but I feel "safe" enough with my 10 as it is after I've tweaked and turned off all the privacy snooping stuff.
     
  7. spkleader

    spkleader MDL Senior Member

    Oct 13, 2009
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    I have one single question....
    MS now have our credit cards numbers, passwords, etc...

    So from now on, if someone uses my credit card without my permission, may I sue MS?
    They're providing me the OS which I'm using and they where clear that they're collecting such info...

    I am right?
     
  8. odiebugs1

    odiebugs1 MDL Expert

    Jul 30, 2015
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    True or false, too tired and confused to look it up or research now. Need my PILLOW.


    Delivery Optimization also sends updates and apps from your PC to other PCs on your local network or """ PCs on the Internet. """"

    Yes, you read that right. WUDO doesn't just look for computers on your internal network, but - just as if you were downloading a torrent of a Hollywood movie - it will try to find other computers on the internet which are running Windows 10, and try to get parts of the download from them too.
    And, of course, it could be your Windows 10 PC that is giving a helping hand to those complete strangers' PCs by *uploading* the data that they are looking for.
     
  9. zero2dash

    zero2dash MDL Member

    Aug 30, 2012
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    I don't mind doing that to LAN PC's, so I left that enabled. No WAN PC's though, heck no. Good idea, poor execution. LAN only should have been the default. A lot of these settings should have had better privacy-centric defaults instead of what they actually chose.
     
  10. maddog0266

    maddog0266 MDL Expert

    Apr 26, 2011
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    No you are not correct.
    It depends on how it is set.
    Windows update will only try your local network unless you set it to get it from the net.
     
  11. Hackeur

    Hackeur MDL Senior Member

    Jun 14, 2009
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    Unfortunately this privacy issues are only the tip of the iceberg, it is a good thing to raise awareness now as future technologies will totally cripple our freedom of choice and protection of our private and personal data/habits. No company such as M$ has a right to take away responsibility for your actions and assume that you are unfit as such and tries to lower your intelligence to the lowest common denominator!
    It won't be long before being connected to the internet will be mandatory otherwise you may be classified as "dead" and unable to access or apply for essential services necessary to live.

    So let's put up a good fight!!!! :D
     
  12. Gao_Zhisheng

    Gao_Zhisheng MDL Novice

    Aug 6, 2015
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    And yet you are the one censoring people's speech with your weak-minded reasoning. So really, who is the "dictator". The one that makes offensive/objectionable/forbidden/politically unpopular speech, or the one that censors and attempts to control it?

    You can't have a conversation about "privacy" if you use dictatorial (and weak-minded) methods to control it. All you accomplish is bringing the level of discourse down to to a level that you can understand and feel comfortable with. All you accomplish is the artificial promotion of weak ideas (and people) and the suppression of better ideas (and people).
     
  13. Gao_Zhisheng

    Gao_Zhisheng MDL Novice

    Aug 6, 2015
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    You can't win a "good fight" when your 1st step is to use the same unilateral and dictatorial powers on average people as the monolithic international corporations. The war is lost before it even starts.

    Q: Why'd you do that?
    A: Because I can, and you can't stop me.
     
  14. Gao_Zhisheng

    Gao_Zhisheng MDL Novice

    Aug 6, 2015
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    #34 Gao_Zhisheng, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    All of this, and a lot of people try to find a medium, middle-of-the-road, compromise, "moderate", non-extreme, not-radical solution to the idea that Microsoft has foisted malware on the world-wide population (after decades of other illegal activity). Anyone that simply calls it "malware" is crazy, and anyone that simply uses it "as is" is stupid.

    And everyone here agrees with that 2nd part. People that use Windows 10, "as is", as Microsoft has delivered it, is stupid. And people that call it "malware" are crazy.

    So people like you (most people here) try to find some middle ground where they can use the new, latest and greatest Operating System, with half-an-eye to the End of Life of Win7 and Win8, avoiding using Linux/Ubuntu/other alternatives and the only thing left to do is try to describe how to modify Windows 10 to make it "workable", "safe enough", "good enough", etc...

    I bet if you took a poll, 90% of the people here advocate using Windows 10 after modifying it from factory default. And so everyone then starts describing all the things that "everyone" should do in order to modify the Windows 10 Operating System to make it acceptably safe, good, etc...

    Right off the bat, there's a critical flaw, which is that Microsoft has, or will at some point in the future, make it illegal to modify their (not your) Operating System. And, at this point, a good percentage of the "pro Windows 10" crowd go "Yaaargh!" raise the Black Flag and start looking for throats to cut. And now 50% of the 90% are criminals, and the other 50% are either cowards or they hate the criminals on the other side. Division.

    Authorized Microsoft Technicians aren't going to jeopardize their careers by modifying Windows 10, and they aren't going to risk their careers by offering advice on forums to the criminals that do. Has anyone been banned from a forum because they were open about using a cracked Operating System? I have. It's the Genuine Microsoft Techs that do it too. Pirate, piracy, criminals, etc... All those words go together, and every major mass-media outlet already has the groundwork established that software pirates are criminals, and people that hack, crack or otherwise illegally modify Microsoft's Operating System is a criminal. You will be a criminal if you illegally modify your Operating System, in order to protect your privacy.

    Maybe, if you are 16 years old, you don't mind being a criminal. But walking into a major corporation with an illegally-modified Operating System on your laptop could get you fired. How many thousands of dollars are you willing to lose in order to run an illegally modified Operating System?

    Second, the acceptance of "Windows as a Service" (and the EULAs that go with it) means that Microsoft can simply go inside your computer (while you think it's just running an update), and resurrect all those deleted system files, enable all those disabled functions and start pulling all that data from your computer, that you think is "private". But it's not. Those broadband, P2P-style, file-sharing methods of doing "updates" also gives Microsoft the bandwidth they need to perform an "In-place Upgrade" and reinstall the entire Operating System from scratch, if they want. Maybe not now, not next year, or the year after that, but someday they'll scan your illegal computer, save your files and settings in your next-door neighbors computer, wipe your hard drive and start you all over from scratch.

    Yaargh.

    Just because you think it's private doesn't mean that it's going to stay private. It's Microsoft's Operating System now, dummy. And not yours. So, to all the "I'll just modify it until I've got it how I want it crowd I'm saying:

    1) You are either a criminal, or you will be when Microsoft changes it's EULA
    2) Being a criminal (according to Microsoft) could cost you way more money than those modifications are worth
    3) Even if you are willing to accept #1, and #2, Microsoft could either put the Operating System back the way it was, or simply turn it off completely, leaving all of your files and software stored inside an inert brick.

    And finally, this is a forum populated by people that really LOVE to mess with an Operating System. You folks are the .0001% of the extreme end of the Bell Curve. Don't think you are typical because you are not. 98% of the people that use Windows 10 will be using it exactly the way Microsoft delivers it. And so, even if YOU aren't being surveilled, monitored, recorded, watched and given no privacy, the other 98% of the human race WILL be, and in a democratic society, when 98% of the population have been indoctrinated into believing that they have no right to privacy from Microsoft, they will also believe they have no right to privacy from their government. And when 98% of your population believes you have no right to privacy, you have no privacy either.

    And the only people that will have any privacy at all will be the criminals. In other words, having privacy has just been made a crime.

    And stop deleting or modifying my posts. The welfare of the entire human race is at stake here, and I don't see anyone else enunciating these arguments as simply and as clearly as I am. Else, let them post and say what they have to say, and let me eviscerate their weak and feeble pro-statist arguments for all to see and agree with approvingly. All you are accomplishing with the censorship is proving to one and all that Microsoft has already won, and that fear of the unknown will always govern any online conversation, and forever. Not just the speech that is suppressed here, but more importantly all the speech in the future that will never be posted because people are afraid of what might happen. Also, Windows 10 is malware, and so are the people that support it, as well as the people that censor other people's speech for speaking out against it. Just keep track of who is passionately and determinedly in favor of freedom, and who uses tyrannical tactics because they know they cannot win in an open, head-to-head exchange of free ideas. And also, Google my Username, for an additional learning experience.
     
  15. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    #35 Michaela Joy, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
    (OP)
    @Gao_Zhisheng: Thank you for your post. You bring up so many valid points in your post, Most of which are echoed by almost all of the members here.

    If you use any OS without taking the time to learn how to protect yourself, you run the risk of hurting yourself or being hurt by others. But we would like the latest and greatest, simply because we'd like to get the necessary product support and the best performance. So, we do just that.

    You're right when you say that the people here are a special breed. Many do take an active role in understanding the inner mechanisms of the Computer OS. And most of us care enough about others to come here and help, and to offer knowledge and advice to people that we do not even know. Not to mention that the advice comes with no strings attached.

    A few years ago, I noticed this dynamic. I was impressed and amazed by it. I am still impressed, amazed, and honored to be a part of this forum today.

    So many wise, kind people here. I only hope that I have enough time in my life to speak with all of you on some level.

    We have multiple agendas at play here; We have the financial agenda of a corporation possibly being served, coupled with the Political agenda of one or more countries. On top of that, there's still a -lot- of data that we do not have.

    So, we need to scrutinize these issues carefully. We also need to work together. We can't allow our concerted efforts to be undermined because of strong emotions or hidden agendas. For all we know, we could be and possibly are being played against each other by something external and invisible to us.

    Anyway, I won't interrupt this thread any more.

    Thank you all for participating in this discussion and thank you for joining MDL and sharing your knowledge and time here.

    To Me, that's more precious than gold. :hug2:

    :MJ
     
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  16. LEXX911

    LEXX911 MDL Senior Member

    Jul 29, 2009
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    Ok. I'm not 100% sure how they are collecting our data. How exactly are they collecting our data? Is it through using Microsoft apps only or will they be collecting data from us using other third party application such as Firefox/Chrome and how about Tor?
     
  17. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @LEXX911: That's a very important question. What data is in their telemetry? And is it readable, so that the user can examine it and, if necessary, take steps to protect themselves. My major concern is that We are being forced to give them our permission to legally collect anything from our machines that they desire. If you don't accept the EULA and privacy agreement, you can't install the OS.

    At this time, they may not be collecting anything sensitive. But they may install an update that allows them to collect a much more broad scope of data. And upon examination of these legal agreements, they are well within their right to do so.

    Make no mistake about it. Microsoft is an industry leader. Their actions will be followed by other companies.

    It's also possible that MS will install data mining APIs for other companies to use in their software products. I'm not saying that they did, or that they even will, but it's possible.We need to start thinking about limiting the scope of what they can legally collect, so that we have a leg to stand on in a court case.

    With regard to Tor, I've seen web articles that claim that Tor has been compromised. Not to spread FUD, but we need to be sure, and, if possible, take steps to protect ourselves.

    Some of you may think that I've being dramatic, but one piece of sensitive information in the wrong hands can get someone killed. In all likelihood, it can and will do irreparable damage to someones' personal life.

    @kofuji: You're right. They have been collecting data for years. And now that real damage might have been done, let's see if we can assess the damages and protect ourselves.


    :MJ
     
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  18. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    What's happened is that the original MS EULA and their privacy agreement has changed. I don't have the two for comparison, but MS has announced it publically. And this gives them legal rights to collect much more information.
    Plus, it gives the user literally no legal recourse because we've been forced to agree to the EULA.

    There's an old saying "Tis better to light a candle than to curse the darkness". We need to check and be sure. In some countries, constant telemetry sent can cost users money, because it eats up their data upload caps. That can get expensive in some cases.

    I believe that data mining is one of the fastest growing financial markets. Companies will buy staggering amounts of data so that they can more efficiently sell their products and services to you. What system of checks and balances exists to protect the user?

    Many people share your feelings abut Windows 10. They like the look and feel of it, and have no problems with using it.
    And Yes. There has been a lot of senseless hate towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Some of it may be justifiable, but, if not discussed calmly, it can lead to rumors and hate-mongering.

    That serves no good purpose, as we have already seen in other posts around the internet.

    Also, it's possible that Windows "Post 95" has been spying on users. But before we panic, let's check and find out.
    Then, at least we know the "game".

    :MJ

    @zero2dash: If it hasn't been said already, welcome to MDL. :)
     
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  19. November_Zulu

    November_Zulu MDL Junior Member

    Jul 21, 2015
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    Hmm. Well then we should do something about "those" people, shouldn't we?

    I think the problem is pretty obvious, in fact it's right there in front of people, for everyone to see.

    [​IMG] hypo.PNG
     
  20. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
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    No, you are wrong.
    I posted how the post appeared to me hence 'IMHO'...I did neither censor nor control language...I make use of the freedom of opinion.
    I post my personal opinion that is all! So you have yours and say 'better', 'weak''.... and I have a job as moderator realizing our rules...

    Again...my opinion
    It is no weak idea to inform people with facts, to open their eyes and to appeal on maturity/reason. I teach students for more than 20 years I have some pedagogic experience and I guess to know how insight can be created....

    Furthermore I even would say the most that is achievable is to change oneself. I can deny w10 without 'efforts'. I live this idea by not using it and can reflect this by living it. I do not waste energy blowing up ego and trying to 'change' others by drama.


    sid_viscous can post his pseudo 'strong' ideas but they fade away on the MDL server, never reaching M$ or any other concerned....'yours' at previous post seem reasonable to me.
    By living the idea friends and surroundings are concerned. They can see it 'real' and maybe change their mind doing the same.
    This is the most powerful way to go, IMHO.

    BTW: Considering weak minded. How comes (and that would M$ also know) consider it as a live example what is possible... that Vladimar, sid_viscous and you have the same IP addresses and similar mail box providers? ;)
     
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