[PLEASE READ] Microsoft and Privacy

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Michaela Joy, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    The main concern of this thread was to make people more aware of what they're agreeing to when they install -any- software, especially the OS.
    At this point, we all agree that there's a big difference between telemetry and spying. Telemetry is benign, within certain limits. Spying is malicious.

    What got many people angry was the aggressive tactics used by Microsoft to force Windows 10 on people. I took issue with that, as did many others.
    What that did was to force some of us to find another way to make sure our machines were safe. Personally, I disabled Windows Updates altogether and used the Simplix pack.

    Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but to me, the OS should be a safe haven for the user. I'm not even talking about cellular phones; Only a fool expects complete privacy on a cell phone.

    As far as the NSA's "magic keys" are concerned, William Binney said "We (the NSA) are not interested in breaking encryption as much as we are interested in weakening the endpoints."

    That's basically how hackers work. By weakening the endpoints. Or redirecting them.

    @CHEF_KOCH: You made a very good point about using a packet sniffing program to examine what telemetry data was going to MS. Early on in this thread, I did suggest that somebody should do just that. AFAIK, it hasn't been done yet. Even If we could, we'd have to break their encryption to find out what's in the telemetry.

    A lot has changed since I originally posted this thread. Our people here at MDL have all but eliminated unwanted "telemetry".

    To those people, I applaud your efforts.

    @dhjohns: I was going to say something about your post, but Joe C beat me to the punch. The first part of your post makes sense and is based in fact. The second part? well...unless you're a part of the upper echelons of Microsoft, I don't see how you can make a statement like that and expect anybody to take you seriously.

    I suggest you all take a good look at the MS Windows 10 License agreement, and especially at the Privacy waiver (Rider) attached to it.

    If that's acceptable to you, then by all means, use the product. I did not, nor will I use Windows 10 on -any- of my computers.

    Why? Not because I'm anti-windows 10 or anti-Microsoft, but because I do not agree with the license agreement. Plain and simple. And it clearly states: "If you do not agree to the terms, then don't install the software".
     
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  2. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    #662 nodnar, Sep 13, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    hm. @ cheffie.
    25 years of working as a security officer did little to enhance my trust in human nature...especially where the big corporations are concerned, and where there is looming a multibillion dollar profit just over the horizon.... so just a bit of trolling, as you please to call it. my thoughts, unburdened by evidence. i heartily disagree that walking away from m$ isto linux no solution!. it is, and i did, for a while.just so long as you steer clear from anything canonical.i am back to w7 now, trust the human nature to be lazy, after i fixed all telemetry, and disabled any updates. i saw that m$ has 500 odd bad surprises waiting for me, dankend abgelehnt! ;) so far nooo problems in w7.. :D w7 is getting a bit like xp, imo, it will live happily ever even after m$ reinvented the vista/w8/w9/w10/wheel. for a decade..as far as spying is concerned; it is not much of a problem. of coarse we get spyed on. we have an ip adress and an isp.. and we are blessed with the us-based corporations, and nsa.and us legislation. i do not even have smart [??] phone, i prefer not to pay through the nose for a device that can pinpoint the drones to my tinfoil hat. i am not that stupid. as far as encryption or tor is concerned, it baaadly slows your pc.. there is no alternative to mechanical encryption.the mistake we all make that there has to be a universal key.. a pain.. http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvv1/pht10.html backdoors are built in, again no evidence, just trolling. :biggrin: sorry, chef, i had to speak my mind. i will not bother anymore in mdl. :flag:
     
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  3. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    May 6, 2007
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    @chef

    Your way of arguing does not convince me otherwise. I will never use w>7 at home.
    My reasons are beside of MJ's that I cannot agree with the EULA :

    I don't need w10 and I don't need anything added there since w7
    I do not want to use their store and crap UI
    At Linux there is no US monopolist behind collecting data whatever it might be.

    And I've moved to Linux because it is an alternative to me and hence it is better.

    It is already enough reason to me not to use it when M$ is collecting encrypted data from my PC

    @dhjohns

    I don’t know how people define ‘to spy on’ where you live but transferring data without to have the chance to know what it really is, I consider it spying.
    Concerning bad intents. Go figure how many lawsuits M$ has had already.

    BTW Naive versus paranoid behavior, where to be paranoid just means here to prevent bringing out stuff one does not know what it is. ;)

    I prefer the latter, lol.....
     
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  4. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    This is from the former head of the NSA:
    No doubt about it, The govt is wanting U.S. corporate and small business to track possible terrorists and all it's citizens, Welcome 1984, albeit about 32 yrs late

    http://www.darkreading.com/analytic...ctor-reflects-on-snowden-leaks/d/d-id/1316466
     
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  5. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    Since we can speak of psychological condition of an individual we can also speak of the psychological condition of a nation, their fears and mind-complex..probably fixed ideas also...

    Each nation has a own profile and to pick out the one of the US has only one reason here, M$ is an US company...

    (The Germans still have a after WWII complex still being in US'es dept supporting their idea of surveillance..and Germans try to compensate lack of happiness with work work work...timeliness and accuracy and other conservative stuff...lol I am not one of those)...:)

    The US nation is tied to 'values' one can be proud of, one can show off, can realize anything....and so they create potential enemies which always try to take away / destroy what they live because of envy....and so they constantly seem to have an 'opponent'..enemy who threatens.....they have to 'watch' what 'they' do and to justify their actions and keep this complex alive they stick to their past ....especially to 9/11.....to re-create fear...and justify the right to continue what they do...
     
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  6. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    One must wonder here in the U.S. if the govt subsidized Windows 10 for the value of tracking every person
     
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  7. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
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    Are you off your meds?
     
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  8. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @Joe C: It's possible. Or they may have received a consult from the NSA. The US government has been subsidizing the private sector for a long time.
     
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  9. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Just a wild conjecture on my part. Why else would a major corporation like M$ offer it's product for free?

    oh...I know! M$ are just a bunch of good 'ol nice boys that want to spread love & peace
     
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  10. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #670 gorski, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37431343

    "...most secure Windows..." say M$...:eek::epiclol::mml::roflmao::laie:



    But this: "A Microsoft camera engineer who responded to complaints on the support thread at the time acknowledged the company had done "a poor job" of letting people know about the change.":eek:



    What a crappy corp!!!!!!!!!:death:
     
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  11. puffyduff

    puffyduff MDL Member

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    #671 puffyduff, Oct 2, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
    There is a high probability of them collaborating.
    Exactly.
    You're the one who is gonna need meds if you are going to force yourself to believe Microsoft and several other giant companies should only have good intentions when stealing personal data from all around the world. (Steal,Verb: to take something that you are not supposed to have without asking for permission)

    Don't get aggressive when reality is too harsh for you.

    Have you heard of anything called military-security-surveillance complex?
    If you were to get information from honest sources outside of the sold out western mainstream media, you wouldn't spend a second underestimating the civil rights violations of modern day capitalism.

    Back to topic; There's s good long, technical and unbiased look at what Microsoft is doing:
    https://senk9.wordpress.com/checklists/windows-10-privacy-checklist/

    You decide.
     
  12. Awake659

    Awake659 MDL Novice

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    I just installed in Windows 10, does that mean I am literally transmitting data to Microsoft without my consent?
    I am relatively noobish in regards to computers, but I keep an open mind and try to continuously learn!
     
  13. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Awake659: What I suggest to you is to start browsing through the threads in the MDL Windows 10 section.

    Many of the security / privacy issues have been abated. Bear in mind that it's still a cat & Mouse game with Microsoft.
     
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  14. lostpassword

    lostpassword MDL Member

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    At the risk of being repetitve and boring, would some of the experts here please give me an answer that I can understand.

    What is information is Microsoft really trying to get? Is it to make a list of naughty boys using DAZ Loader and Toolkit, or just a platform to try and sell a load of crap on?
    I do not think it unreasonable that attempts should be made to ensure the security of the vast majority of the population. Without the USA there would not be a lot of freedom left in the World. What is freedom? Most of us are lucky to have a roof over our heads, Windows 10, and enough to eat, a benefit not shared by everyone.
     
  15. sml156

    sml156 MDL Member

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    #675 sml156, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    They really are not asking that much of you.

    All they want is

    1. How do you spend your money and and how can they get you to stick it in their pockets.

    2. Find out what your interested in and direct you to sites that make them money.

    3. Sell all your info for big $ that they can not leverage to make money on themselves.

    I probably missed a few points but hopefully you get the message
     
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  16. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #676 Joe C, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    Microsoft tells you right out front the data they want and use. Which is somewhat better than Apple or Google
    Read the full privacy EULA and be sure to click on the "Learn More"
    https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement
    obtain data from third parties. We protect data obtained from third parties according to the practices described in this statement, plus any additional restrictions imposed by the source of the data. These third-party sources vary over time, but have included:
    • Data brokers from which we purchase demographic data to supplement the data we collect.
    • Social networks when you grant permission to a Microsoft product to access your data on one or more networks.
    • Service providers that help us determine a location based on your IP address in order to customize certain products to your location.
    • Partners with which we offer co-branded services or engage in joint marketing activities, and
    • Publicly-available sources such as open government databases or other data in the public domain.
    Name and contact data. We collect your first and last name, email address, postal address, phone number, and other similar contact data.

    Credentials. We collect passwords, password hints, and similar security information used for authentication and account access.

    Demographic data. We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country, and preferred language.

    Payment data. We collect data necessary to process your payment if you make purchases, such as your payment instrument number (such as a credit card number), and the security code associated with your payment instrument.

    Device and Usage data. We collect data about your device and how you and your device interact with Microsoft and our products. For example, we collect:

    • Product use data. We collect data about the features you use, the items you purchase, and the web pages you visit. This data includes your voice and text search queries or commands to Bing, Cortana, and our chat bots. This also includes the settings you select and the software configurations your use most.
    • Device, connectivity and configuration data. We collect data about your device and the network you use to connect to our products. It includes data about the operating systems and other software installed on your device, including product keys. It also includes IP address, device identifiers (such as the IMEI number for phones), regional and language settings.
    • Error reports and performance data. We collect data about the performance of the products and any problems you experience with them. This data helps us to diagnose problems in the products you use, and to improve our products and provide solutions. Depending on your product and settings, error reports (sometimes called “crash dumps”) can include data such as the type or severity of the problem, details of the software or hardware related to an error, contents of files you were using when an error occurred, and data about other software on your device.
    • Troubleshooting and Help Data. When you engage Microsoft for troubleshooting and help, we collect data about you and your hardware, software, and other details related to the incident. Such data includes contact or authentication data, the content of your chats and other communications with Microsoft, data about the condition of the machine and the application when the fault occurred and during diagnostics, and system and registry data about software installations and hardware configurations.
    Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the programming languages you prefer, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect.

    Contacts and relationships. We collect data about your contacts and relationships if you use a Microsoft product to manage contacts, for example Outlook.com, or to communicate or interact with other people or organizations, for example Visual Studio Team Services.

    Location data. For products with location-enhanced features, we collect data about your location, which can be either precise or imprecise. Precise location data can be Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) data (e.g., GPS), as well as data identifying nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi hotspots, we collect when you enable location-based products or features. Imprecise location data includes, for example, a location derived from your IP address or data that indicates where you are located with less precision, such as at a city or postal code level.

    Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the products you use. For example, if you transmit a file using Skype to another Skype user, we need to collect the content of that file to display it to you and the other user as you direct. If you receive an email using Outlook.com, we need to collect the content of that email to deliver it to your inbox, display it to you, enable you to reply to it, and store it for you until you choose to delete it. Other data we collect to provide communication services to you include the:

    • subject line and body of an email,
    • text or other content of an instant message,
    • audio and video recording of a video message, and
    • audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.
    Video. If you enter Microsoft Store locations or other facilities, or attend a Microsoft event, your image may be captured by our security cameras.

    If you use Spend, at your direction, we may also collect payment card information, receipt data, or financial transaction data, to provide the service.

    If you use Enterprise Online Services, Microsoft collects Customer Data (including content), Support Data, and Administrator Data, defined below in the Enterprise and Developer Products section.

    We also collect information you provide to us and the content of messages you send to us, such as feedback and product reviews you write, or questions and information you provide for customer support. When you contact us, such as for customer support, phone conversations or chat sessions with our representatives may be monitored and recorded.

    Product-specific sections below describe data collection practices applicable to use of those products.

    It's a long list and there is more that I have not posted
     
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  17. lostpassword

    lostpassword MDL Member

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    Thanks, nothing too frightening there. I was worried that Bill would punish me for DAZ Loader!

    Seriously though, is there any way they know who you really are?
    I realise that EBAY, AMAZON and shops you buy from, have to know a real address to send goods to, but do Microsoft and Google know who you really are? Do they have access to spy on AMAZON transactions and know who you really are, and where you live.
    Suspect your answers will be yes.
     
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  19. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    Everyone knows where you are and subsequently who you are if they have your IP address and physical address, which they get from location data. The couriers share your data too!
     
  20. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

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    this is all 100% safe, secure and private ;)